marcan changed the topic of #asahi-gpu to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | GPU / 3D graphics stack black-box RE and development (NO binary reversing) | Keep things on topic | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi-gpu
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<DarkShadow44> when making a mesa driver, do we make a gallium3d driver or a vulkan driver?
<DarkShadow44> (is there even a difference?)
<neobrain> A Vulkan driver "only" supports Vulkan, whereas a gallium driver supports "only" OpenGL and other APIs. So it's orthogonal
<neobrain> (most of the oldschool OSS games people like to show off during driver bringup use OGL, but in practice if you're playing AAA games on Linux via Wine/Proton you'll likely end up with Vulkan)
<neobrain> oh, and I think desktop compositing still uses OpenGL too, so that probably (*cough*) makes OGL/Gallium a priority
<neobrain> (I'm not related to the project though, so that last point is just my guess)
<balrog> One could use Zink to run OGL on a Vulkan driver.
<balrog> But there are caveats
<chrisf> neobrain: for my part in this, definitely bringing up vulkan first
<DarkShadow44> hm, I see. I thought maybe gallium also supports vulkan
<DarkShadow44> but that seems to not be the case
<DarkShadow44> regarding both mesa drivers, should they be in C or C++?
<chrisf> a lot of mesa is C, but it's mixed
<neobrain> chrisf: noted 😊
<chrisf> desktop composition will eventually move over to vulkan. it's an area where the extra control does help
<DarkShadow44> chrisf: What do you plan to use?
<chrisf> C
<chrisf> for as much as possible
<DarkShadow44> alright
<chrisf> a lot of things will be shareable between the gallium and vulkan drivers. we'll only write the compiler backend once
<DarkShadow44> of course
<neobrain> does gallium support compiling to nir these days? (I thought it was always going through tgsi)
<bloom> neobrain: almost all the gallium drivers are nir-only these days
* bloom also has a strong preference for C, as do many (most?) Mesa devs
<bloom> DD~~not that I'd be opposed to a Rust driver~~
<DarkShadow44> not sure how accurate that diagram still is though
<bloom> DarkShadow44: quite outdated and not sure it was accurate even then
<bloom> uh
<neobrain> bloom: ah, neat.
<bloom> yeah, that was wrong then and even more wrong now
<DarkShadow44> oh, sorry then
<bloom> not at all
<bloom> i have seen that image several times and conidered fixing it but effort
<bloom> :p
<bloom> DarkShadow44: oh scroll down for "The factual accuracy of this diagram or the file name is disputed"
<bloom> :-p
<DarkShadow44> bloom: Ah, only really ever saw the picture inline in the Gallium3D article :D
<chrisf> i have a strong preference for not-c++
<chrisf> rust im undecided on
<DarkShadow44> same here, C++ seems just so... messy
<DarkShadow44> I should be finished with my asmtool architecture soon(ish), btw
<DarkShadow44> would you be interested in helping me turn that into something useable for mesa?
<DarkShadow44> On my own, I might not be the best for architecture/codestyle
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<bloom> I'm finishing up the semester so will be able to help Soon
<bloom> course I have a two month long pile on $DAYJOB patches to deal with
<DarkShadow44> no rush, I'm thankful for all the help I can get ^^
<DarkShadow44> I've still got most instructions to implement and test as well
<bloom> re interests, I meant are you more r/e side? or driver side? or compiler side?
<bloom> concrete hardware stuff or abstract CS compiler theory?
<bloom> (I've worked on all of the above but certainly have preferences)
<DarkShadow44> hm, I'm interested in a lot of things
<DarkShadow44> I'm pretty interested in re, that's why I did a bunch of work for wine
<DarkShadow44> but I wanted to get into understanding GPU hardware and drivers as well, that's why I started here
<DarkShadow44> compiler theory is not really my thing though
<DarkShadow44> I mean, I've written my own small compiler back in the days, but that's that
<DarkShadow44> basically, I'm here to help out and learn in the progress ^^
<chrisf> DarkShadow44: yeah, things possible Soon
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