<rennj>
Ben Stoltz, a brilliant and creative user interface programmer at Sun, developed the original “tatool” at Sun Microsystems in October of 1990 with Sun’s Devguide tool for building XView user interfaces.
<rennj>
“TA” stood for “Tony & Alba’s”, the best pizza parlor in Mountain View, located conveniently nearby Sun.
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<rennj>
66years from flight to moon.. 1990-2024 34 years for enadasa[m] to order a pizza.
<rennj>
progress
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<PulkoMandy>
if the vm supports sata or nvme "secure erase" commands, you can do that quickly using the fstrim command
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<Begasus>
g'morning peeps
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<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
morning Begasus
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<Begasus>
Hi there PriyanshuGupta[m]
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<Saijin_Naib[m]>
<PulkoMandy> "if the vm supports sata or nvme..." <- QEMU, or my Alpine host, or what? I am unsure how I would do that
<Saijin_Naib[m]>
It worked, ultimately. 5.2GB sparsified vs 64GB non-sparse. Happy happy
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<PulkoMandy>
In qemu, it seems you need to add discard=unmap to your disc image setting/command line (something like -drive=path/to/imagefile,discard=unmap), then in haiku you run "fstrim /boot" and it will tell qemu to sparsify the disk image
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<rennj>
We get a private tour of the System Source Museum near Baltimore, MD.
<rennj>
yeah computer museum's
<rennj>
paul allen museum closing is bummer
<rennj>
he had tons of working systems
<phschafft>
hm.
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* phschafft
truns on the blinken lights.
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<rennj>
many a time on xmas in the server room/data center das blinken lights
<rennj>
i consider festive memories at this point
<phschafft>
:)
<rennj>
alone on xmas in the server room..cause married people with kids on holiday..single person on-call duty...
<rennj>
i had 2 cellphones and 2 pagers on my hip..rocking!
<phschafft>
I just considered that I should maybe add a blinken lights module to my computer design.
<phschafft>
once everything is finished I expect all of you to buy one! ;)
<rennj>
information for the user
<rennj>
powered on light
<rennj>
error light
<rennj>
its not for show, it has meaning
<rennj>
rx/tx
<dovsienko>
also identification
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<rennj>
green yellow red
<rennj>
good,fault,major problem
<rennj>
streetlights people should understand
<rennj>
those colors
<rennj>
and blue led..limit that bullshit..hurts my eyes
<phschafft>
I always used red power LEDs. not just because they don't get in your way, but also they drain the power rail to a level that is a safe-off voltage for most 5V components. with green LEDs that doesn't work as good.
<rennj>
yeah im not talking EE volts/freq foo..just user point of view
<rennj>
end user
<rennj>
green = good , yellow=slow/caution, red=stopped
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<rennj>
storage arrays, nics, hba
<rennj>
IEEE/ISO standards would be nice
<phschafft>
?
<rennj>
led color code on their blinken lights some standard
<rennj>
you got 255 drives in fiber-ac-loop in a rack...all the lights
<rennj>
its always varied from what i saw..green yellow red..works
<rennj>
walk up to rack..you can see the failed drive from light..let alone checking in software
<rennj>
also knowing the hot-spare kicked in
<rennj>
just from lights if you know hardware you own
<rennj>
same goes for network nics...or storage hba's
<rennj>
fiber channel hba ..connected to san...not same as network nic..
<rennj>
choice of what information you cram into the light to user...green yellow red is pretty easy.
<rennj>
i know blue led's suck only cause..stupid consumer products
<rennj>
i had speaker i had to tape that sucker over..
<rennj>
blue = power on...fuck you
<rennj>
in the night dark room..that is eye burning
<rennj>
RGB in keyboard swell
<rennj>
mouse
<rennj>
mouse pad
<rennj>
RGB mouse pad
<rennj>
i have jvc speaker now...tell me "aux" in female voice..fucking stupid idiots..
<dovsienko>
the thing is, often the person that knows the hardware and the person that replaces the faulty disk are different people in different places
<rennj>
i love it..everytime i turn on computer external speaker..it "talks"
<rennj>
it gets old, quick
<rennj>
what morons designed this
<dovsienko>
so the blinking blue ID LED serves the purpose of temporary identification of a drive pretty well, given everything else is green, orange or red
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<rennj>
blue blows! IMHO
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<rennj>
eye burning in the dark
<dovsienko>
if you have to look at it all the time, yes. if you are there to replace the component, it is fine
<rennj>
green yellow red better to human eye, i dont know about voltage/frequency/ diode resistor caps ..fixing line noise
<rennj>
blue?
<dovsienko>
I cut off or tape over or replace the LEDs I do not like, there's no reason to poison everyday experience for a long time
<rennj>
racks of servers?
<rennj>
in a data center
<rennj>
mutliple floors
<dovsienko>
yes, I know the landscape and worked in data centres for years
<rennj>
well then you know blue led is new
<rennj>
but if you had them..
<rennj>
meh..glad i didnt have to deal with that
<dovsienko>
get different speakers maybe. the kind without a built-in amplifier
<dovsienko>
if you search for used 2-way or 3-way speakers on ebay, you'd be surprised how cheap you can get what once was high-end
<dovsienko>
then find a good quality amplifier (it does not have to be expensive) with a matching impedance and then feed some good sound into it
<dovsienko>
good old stereo done right
<dovsienko>
at one time I had an amplifier board fitted into the PC, so the speakers would connect directly to the PC
<rennj>
el cheapo..good enough for not pissing of neighbors
<rennj>
Max. Battery Life 30 hours watt/hours...
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<rennj>
find battery specs...
<rennj>
its mostly batteries
<rennj>
the weight of unit
<nephele>
I wonder how visions timestamps sometimes break...
<nephele>
"[-406028832:4554] <rennj> its mostly batteries"
<rennj>
nice timestamp
<dovsienko>
nephele: FreeType maybe?
<nephele>
dovsienko: maybe. But it also renders fonts, i basically *only* want to read font data to manipulate it non-graphically
<nephele>
e.g take the noto font cjk font and cut out the latin chars they took from adobe fonts ;)
<dovsienko>
I suspect it may have secondary functions to do things with fonts without rendering anything, but you better check it
<rennj>
date +%s'
<rennj>
date +%s
<rennj>
1714478162
<rennj>
1714478186
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<rennj>
could be something like that
<rennj>
a=$(date +%s);echo $(date -d @$a) $a
<rennj>
Tue Apr 30 04:57:22 PDT 2024 1714478242
<rennj>
Tue Apr 30 04:57:23 PDT 2024 1714478243
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<rennj>
vision is just baxtor code
<rennj>
hehe
<rennj>
baxtor the irc client on beos
<rennj>
w00f
<rennj>
dog icon logo want to say'
<nephele>
oof. maybe today programming isn't such a nice idea. Light mode websites with documentation hurt way too much .-.
<rennj>
dark mode reader should be default
<rennj>
firefox burns my eyes
<nephele>
If you mean the addon for chromium/ff then i disagree. It breaks websites that already have a dark mode. Either that is an oversight or bad design, either way the way it works now would not make sense to include
<rennj>
chrome hah
<rennj>
fuck google
<rennj>
i only use that if i have to
<rennj>
firefox dark reader mode
<rennj>
heh..would be nice if it was default
<nephele>
You can instead use the browser google funds.... firefox
<rennj>
addon/extension
<nephele>
Seems like a loosing choice either way *shrug*
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<rennj>
fuck google,apple,m$,amazon,fakebook..all day long
<nephele>
apple atleast gives us webkit :P
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<coolcoder613>
Hi zard
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<zard>
Hello coolcoder613 :-)
<coolcoder613>
I recently got a lilygo T-Deck
<zard>
Ah, so you're into the esp32?
<zard>
I've done a bit of programming around those
<coolcoder613>
Getting into it a bit yes
<coolcoder613>
I'm using TulipCC bc I had a bit of trouble getting faux86 to work
<rennj>
looks like my old android phone
<rennj>
motorola charm - first android phone with keyboard...like crackberry/blackberry
<coolcoder613>
I originally bought an ESP32 because I wanted to make a handheld device with a full keyboard, then i found the t-deck...
<coolcoder613>
RETURN encountered without corresponding subroutine on line 15
<coolcoder613>
Add a "5 GOTO 20"...
<zard>
Heh. Wonder how you'll solve it
<coolcoder613>
Working now
<zard>
Interesting...
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<PetePete>
Good morning everyone.
<PetePete>
Stil highly appreciative of your amazing work. Thank you for making Haiku.
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<Begasus>
still not getting the center panel in amarok to show anything :/
<Begasus>
and an error at launch for the database ...
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<PetePete>
fAmarok was amazing
<PetePete>
I used it in KDE 3 back in the day
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<Begasus>
latest release runs ok, but hardly good enough to release for Haiku atm
<Begasus>
afk
<PetePete>
cd Down
<PetePete>
oops
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<PetePete>
I would use haiku erryday if full disk encryption were possible.
<PetePete>
I can live with the system being wide open as long as it's secure when it's turned off
<phschafft>
PetePete++
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<PetePete>
phschafft$$
<phschafft>
I'm wondering if my terminal settings code should go into the device driver or if that should be a proxy layer. hm.
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<PetePete>
I know this is probably the dumbest question ever but... why can't a boot manager like plop for example, ask to unlock the disk and then send the next bootloader to load boot?
<phschafft>
sure you can chain load.
<phschafft>
but keep in mind that the next one in line still needs to know what is should do.
<PetePete>
I guess my idea is stupid. There would have to be a way to install the OS on an already encrypted drive
<PetePete>
boot plop, unlock drive, tell the computer to boot the os inside it
<phschafft>
e.g. you can open a volume, load boot config and kernel and all that stuff from that. but once you start the code you just loaded (second phase of boot loader or kernel, all the same) that part still needs to do the crypto stuff if you want to have it access to the volume.
<PetePete>
right. that's the part I'm stupid about
<nephele>
PetePete: for EFI chainloading is not that bad, however disks don't get "unlocked" like that. Every next member of the chain needs to know how to read the encrypted disk, it does not get un-encrypted on disk ever
<PetePete>
right. That makes perfect sense
<phschafft>
PetePete: it's not that stupid, it's just a bit more complicated.
<PetePete>
I'm half retarded
<nephele>
It's a valid question, that doesn't make you stupid at all :)
<PetePete>
you guys just basically made sense of the whole thing in two sentences
<phschafft>
and taking a wider view there might be devices that just need to get some initial data and then be happy to continue to operate with a less aware kernel.
<PetePete>
why other irc channels are full of people who do NOT answer questions this way is beyond me
<PetePete>
right. basically, we are talking about virtualization, which, we already have issues with
<phschafft>
this channel is a bit on the better side of things it seems. that is also why I keep throwing in my non-Haiku stuff to let it bounce here for a while and simmer down into good ideas. ;)
<PetePete>
so it would be more advantagious to work on either full disk encryption or virtualization
<nephele>
I thought it was kind of fun how this channel moved from freenode to OFTC in like one day and it didn't seem that much changed xD
<PetePete>
haha
<nephele>
I guess there just isn't that much service lock-in in irc. which is nice
<PetePete>
freenode was awesome. like a really awful but super hot girlfriend
<bjorkintosh>
PetePete, a wise person once told me, no matter how hot he/she/they/them/those are, someone some where is tired of their bullshit.
<bjorkintosh>
I've kept that in mind and used it wisely.
<bjorkintosh>
that counts for freenode.
<PetePete>
mucho trutho
<rennj>
when do you do the phassprase for encrypted data at rest?
<rennj>
see ubuntu initrd they have zfs root boot/encryption along with the luks encryption
<rennj>
got prompt for the phassphrase or combo phrase and file....you could do some sshpass foo i suppose
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 748da47 - Add recipe for lastfm, patch commes from Debian (#10386)
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<thetick1[m]>
Hi I've been using Haiku on 4 different laptop models all with various different hardware configs. 3 of laptops have good hardware driver support. One laptop with Intel 2200 wireless is never enabled. Checking syslog it appears to load the wrong wireless firmware. It gets a bad return code.
<thetick1[m]>
That wireless works fine with windows and Linux.
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<thetick1[m]>
I seem to recall Haiku wireless stack is from a BSD. Is there a live BSD using the same stack.
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<augiedoggie_>
that one might be handled by the "install-wifi-firmwares.sh" script
<thetick1[m]>
I have working Ethernet with that laptop so ill check. Thanks
<rennj>
I once bought a far larger supercomputer. It was 1/8 (roughly) of ASCI Blue Mountain. 72 racks. Commissioned in 1998 as #1 or #2 on the TOP500, officially decommissioned in 2004, purchased my 1/8 for $7k in ~2005.
<rennj>
crazy story!
<nosycat>
Whoa.
<rennj>
Moving 72 racks was NOT easy.
<rennj>
haha
<nosycat>
:D
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<thetick1[m]>
..ah still running AIX or new enough to run ppc64 linux
<thetick1[m]>
Oh my bad Asics blue mountain was not ibm power. It was hpe r10000.
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<PetePete>
Anyone, please correct me if I am wrong here:
<Begasus[m]>
KDevelop 24.04.80 still good :)
<PetePete>
If I were to install the same OS on two different drives, then, to basically clone them, I could simply rsync the entire contents of the root filesystem to the secondary drive anytime I make changes and that's really all there is to it, correct?
<PetePete>
As opposed to performing a full clone each time, that is...
<zard>
Not sure. Can't think of any reason why that wouldn't work...
<PetePete>
Me neither.
<Begasus[m]>
I'm no developer, but things like /boot/system is read-only, don't think you can sync those?
<PetePete>
In fact, if there were an issue with UUID, I could actually make the first clone after I setup the first drive (as opposed to installing twice
<PetePete>
Begasus[m]: I would be performing a one-way sync to the mounted second drive
<zard>
AFAIK, the /boot/system folder is populated by packages. As long as those get synchronized, the rest of the /boot/system folder should be correct
<rennj>
rsync -va --delete --exclude='NOT' /disk1/ /disk2/ NOT is a dir on disk1 not being synced
<rennj>
yeah backups
<rennj>
or zfs snapshot..depends on fs features
<rennj>
dedup,compression,encryption
<rennj>
dedupelication...files CRC checksum the same...
<rennj>
multiple copies
<Begasus>
zard, those are inside /boot/system/packages
<Begasus>
that should be possible, but something like /boot/system/lib not (my 2 cents)
<rennj>
3-2-1 backups...wikipedia
<rennj>
backups for proper failsafe
<rennj>
fire tornado
<rennj>
having multiple DC data centers is fine..but nuclear bomb can wipe one out
<rennj>
plan for failure
<rennj>
52 week a year...level 0 dumps...its really not hard..52 tapes per server
<rennj>
if you want to restore to any week in time that year
<rennj>
5 4 3 2 1 0 ...57 tapes per server
<rennj>
52 level 0's and 5 4 3 2 1 rotate each week
<rennj>
man dump
<rennj>
man restore
<rennj>
old skool
<rennj>
like 30 year tech
<rennj>
5 tapes use every week for daily's 5 4 3 2 1
<rennj>
52 tapes for level 0
<rennj>
57 tapes per server
<PetePete>
lol... I should have explained what I was actually attempting
<rennj>
i telling you proper backups
<rennj>
using lto tech
<rennj>
sdlt
<rennj>
tapes
<rennj>
restore to any week in 1 year prior to virus/malware...
<rennj>
the 5 dailys are just for current week...restore from 1 level 0 to today...
<PetePete>
I manage a lot of backups and the system is actually using zfs for shares. It wasn't a question regarding backups or replication... I'm actually trying to substitute for a RAID or mirrored zpool (for rather simple reasons, like not having enough drive bays and SATA ports)
<rennj>
docs.sun.com covers everything im saying
<PetePete>
So I figure, if my system drive failed, I COULD just reinstall the OS, install software and load backups
<rennj>
i did backups before sun had raid0/volume manager
<rennj>
veritas lvm/vfs
<rennj>
veritas netbackups also
<rennj>
failied drive ?
<rennj>
beadm/bootadm
<PetePete>
but creating two identical drives from the start and then rsyncing all the changes would save me a lot of time in the event that I needed to replace the drive
<PetePete>
reminds me of that xkcd where the challenge is to issue a successful tar command without looking it up. haha
<rennj>
tar cvfz
<rennj>
tar xvfz
<PetePete>
winner!
<rennj>
jar was added to tar
<rennj>
java
<rennj>
i remember that
<rennj>
tar -cvfj
<rennj>
jar was tar file but the option
<PetePete>
I remember reading that were some super simple ways to tar up an entire drive and encrypt the resulting file. Like making an iso with dd, but using tar and gpg
<rennj>
sure dd if=/dev | tar | ssh
<rennj>
send it over network
<rennj>
sure dd if=/dev | tar | nc
<rennj>
netcat!
<rennj>
love the pipe!
<rennj>
>> <<
<rennj>
redirection
<rennj>
stdin stdout stderr >> redirect all over
<rennj>
plan9 solved things..but it was to late
<rennj>
everything was file in plan9
<rennj>
not in unix...
<thetick1[m]>
Hi I had some time and tried install firmware script but it fails as GitHub path has chaned
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<phschafft>
avoid using compression with tar when you use it with OpenPGP. let OpenPGP do that.
<phschafft>
you can then also extract using something like: tar -I gpg -xvf bla.tar.gpg
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<thetick1[m]>
I'll see if I can fix the install firmware script. How do I report the issue.
<phschafft>
I recently had a look at plan9 as it was referenced in wikipedia. I was looking at device files.