marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | General project discussion | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<opticron>
awww, it cuts off the stream at 11h 55m
<JTL>
Glad to see more collaboration between projects with shared interests.
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<marcan>
nirusu[m]: it already works
<Shiz>
morning :p
<marcan>
and yeah, it's a shame they didn't develop this while talking to upstream because it's going to result in a longer cycle while things get rewritten where the wrong approach was chosen, but I'm glad they're actually doing the right thing now
<Fanfwe>
marcan: so the "R" issue from yesterday is not related to the samsung uart driver, but to the AIC driver ?
<marcan>
I'm actually considering taking a break from kernel dev and making that OSWH serial cable I've been meaning to
<marcan>
because that will allow other kernel devs to actually test all this properly
<marcan>
Fanfwe: no, that was me mistaking the autobaud IRQ for the RX IRQ
<j`ey>
OSWH?
<bastilian>
marcan: that would be awesome!
<marcan>
open source hardware
<Fanfwe>
open source hardware
<marcan>
turns out autobaud triggers when you receive data... but not the way you expect :p
<Fanfwe>
aha ok lol
<j`ey>
marcan: serial cable for the mac?
<marcan>
anyway, the "okay let me do this from scratch for educational purposes" goal has been met, and my sleep schedule has been further destroyed
<marcan>
:p
<marcan>
(that was why I did those streams even though corellium released their tree; I was going to do it originally and it seemed like a big shame if we'd lose having a video record of how to port linux to an undocumented arch)
<Fanfwe>
j`ey: a hardware that you can connect to your mac, and sends type-C PD commands to the mac so that you get access to the debug UART
<marcan>
two days well spent IMO
<Raqbit>
I enjoyed it ^-^
<Fanfwe>
yeah, for the educational purpose it was great seeing you doing it all from scratch, even if corellium already had it done
<Fanfwe>
with the corellium tree, you only really have a bunch of commits to look at in order to understand how it's been ported
<robinp>
do you plan on streaming the OSHW process as well ?
<Fanfwe>
with your livestreams, one can see all the thinking process that goes around it
<marcan>
robinp: sure, why not
<robinp>
marcan: ok awesome!
<bastilian>
\o/ yay!
<stemnic>
Agreed it was very educational and I think very useful for people trying to port linux to undocumented platforms :)
<Raqbit>
And seeing *cough* unique debugging techniques :P
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<Fanfwe>
marcan: that shouldn't take too long anyway, right ? It's gonna be a pretty simple board, with type-c connector, the FUSB302 chip, some logic level shifter, a FTDI-like connector, and some basic MCU
<Fanfwe>
right ?
<marcan>
basically yes
<Fanfwe>
FTDI-like chip*
<marcan>
I might not even prototype it, just YOLO a board and bodge wire whatever I get wrong
<stemnic>
Are you using an arduino for it currently?
<Fanfwe>
yeah
<marcan>
yes, but I'll probably use an STM32 for the real one
<Fanfwe>
yes current setup is an arduino nano
<Fanfwe>
the OSHW really is to make it easy for those who can't do precise solder jobs
<marcan>
I want to include a USB hub though, to be able to pass through 2.0 OTG down one cable
<vijfhoek>
is there a picture of the current set-up somewhere btw?
<vijfhoek>
I'm quite curious
<marcan>
I can take one
<Fanfwe>
because the package of the FUSB302 isn't really easy to work with if you don't have proper tools
<Fanfwe>
Ah yes, good idea, the built-in hub makes sense
<vijfhoek>
cool
<Fanfwe>
marcan: and so, that debug UART you are getting access to, is that the one exposed as /dev/tty.debug-console under Mac OS ?
<marcan>
also every type C pin will go through some cuttable links or so
<marcan>
I want this to be adaptable to any other scenario without too much trouble
<marcan>
it's a shame every FUSB302 demo board out there didn't do this
<marcan>
otherwise I could've used them
<marcan>
Fanfwe: ye
<marcan>
+s
<Fanfwe>
and do you know if Mac OS opens that device by itself to throw some stuff like kernel logs ? Or is this a free-to-use UART when using Mac-OS (provided that you have the hardware to get access to it, ofc)
<marcan>
depends on boot arguments
<marcan>
by default you can just use it, that's how I originally tested this
<marcan>
but if you enable serial debug logs it locks the device
<Fanfwe>
yes ok
<Fanfwe>
thanks
<Shiz>
the macOS devtree had a second samsung-compatible UART btw
<Shiz>
labeled 'wifi-debug' :)
<Shiz>
couldn't tune in yday, but hope things went well
<Shiz>
sounds like it tho
<Fanfwe>
Shiz: yup, got a root shell
<marcan>
and penguins
<stemnic>
marcan: So, what is next after you have finished the OSWH serial cable. Continue working on the UART driver and cherrypick some of corellium’s commits?
<Shiz>
ohh
<Fanfwe>
marcan: I finally got my FUSB302 chip and got my "wire bonding" done. However I'm seeing a horrible rise time on the i2c lines, to a point where it doesn't work. Did you have to put external pull-ups, or... ?
<Shiz>
did you get four big and four small penguins
<Shiz>
:p
<jix>
currently multiple penguins require multiple boots ;)
<marcan>
the UART driver is done, that will be in the tree today and I kind of expect woachk to submit it for upstreaming in a future round, since it's kind of critical
<marcan>
just needs a couple cleanups
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<marcan>
meanwhile corellium can clean up their stuff
<marcan>
the problem is nobody from corellium has contacted me
<marcan>
I know they have some pcie stuff in their old tree, for example
<marcan>
but without knowing what they're working on, I have no idea what is a waste of time to work on or not
<Fanfwe>
that's a shame :(
<Shiz>
could ask never_released in #armlinux?
<marcan>
yeah
<marcan>
Shiz: he dropped out lol
<Shiz>
😔
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<j`ey>
marcan: btw I saw you use picocom.. better than screen?
<j`ey>
I was probably going to switch anyway, apparently it can toggle the DTR line, which will reset the dev board im working on. and I could find a way to do that from screen
<marcan>
I find it a lot less annoying
<marcan>
bbl, dinner
<j`ey>
*couldn't
<Shiz>
dinner or breakfast? :p
<dhewg>
+1 for picocom, it works nicely. even using it with rz/sz sometimes to recover boards from uboot
<dhewg>
and when you're not using screen for serial stuff anymore you can dump screen for tmux too
<j`ey>
heh, im using tmux for other things :-)
<marcan>
Shiz: both
<dhewg>
deinstall screen then? :P
<Shiz>
:3
<Shiz>
will keep stating that 'breakfast' just sounds like a breakcore label rather than an actual english word
<Fanfwe>
but I get no response from it on the arduino :(
<Fanfwe>
Either a bad chip, or there's something up with the pull-ups which I haven't figured out yet
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<j`ey>
well picocom works, no need to turn around to reset my board!
<Fanfwe>
q3k|m: yeah, wire wrapping is really great. Too bad it's not really popular anymore... After all, when you think about it, the entire Apollo guidance computer was wire wrapped. And it went to space many times without failing.
<q3k|m>
Fanfwe: it should be! kynar wire is dirt cheap. manual wire wrap tools are rare but still are stocked by most distributors.
<q3k|m>
Fanfwe: and i love the fact that i can jig things up on a piece of scrap board, wire wrap'em together, and toss it in a project box without worrying that things will disconnect
<Fanfwe>
Yeah, I bought some manual wire wrap tools not so long ago, and I find myself using them quite often now. It makes really solid connections.
<Fanfwe>
I've seen a wire wrapping gun too. But it's kinda overkill lol
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<marcan>
q3k|m: I never had serious reliability issues with breadboards tbh
<marcan>
Fanfwe: did you check the i2c address? there are different chip variants with different ones
<nkaretnikov>
Fanfwe: have you tested (beeped) the physical connections between the chip and the board? maybe the soldering is not good
<eta>
marcan: ooi, what EDA package do you tend to use
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<marcan>
kicad
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<suskun>
#join asahi-dev
<davidrysk[m]>
Did the corellium stuff get accepted upstream yet?
<j`ey>
davidrysk[m]: no
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<marcan>
davidrysk[m]: first-time SoC bringup takes a long time to upstream, especially if you write it without talking to anyone
<davidrysk[m]>
Well yeah that’s what I expected
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<marcan>
corellium aren't actually upstreaming anything, it's never_released/woachk who is doing the work right now and he is already planning major changes after the first round ;)
<davidrysk[m]>
What’s the easiest way to browse the LKML?
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<j`ey>
lore.kernel.org
<j`ey>
marcan: is never_released mohammed?
<marcan>
yes
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<never_released>
davidrysk[m]: lkml.org
<amw2>
Has anyone got a link for the s3c2410 serial hardware datasheet that marcan was working on ?
<amw2>
I can't find anything - appears the original SoC is very old
<never_released>
amw2: yeah, Apple started with using Exynos, then drifted further and further away
<Fanfwe>
marcan: I have not checked the address, no. Didn't know there were multiple variants. Will hook it up to a raspberry pi and do a scan of i2c bus, in that case. But anyway, this wouldn't explain the waveforms I see on the scope, where the rise time is really really bad. But maybe I could get it to work at a lower clock speed.
<never_released>
UART isn't the only thing from Asmsung
<never_released>
*Samsung
<Fanfwe>
nkaretnikov: my physical connections are fine, 100% sure
<Fanfwe>
marcan: apart from the i2c address, should your arduino code work, or are there more fundamental differences ?
<marcan>
I think it's mostly just the address
<Fanfwe>
ok thanks. I'll give it a try later today
<marcan>
the rise time being bad is normal for i2c with pull-ups
<never_released>
MAIR workaround was cute but is untenable at this point
<never_released>
we'll need something better
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<amw2>
marcan : Thanks - got the datasheet from that web page
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<dhewg>
never_released: how come you're upstreaming "their" work? just going by your email you sent the patches from you're not employed there?
<never_released>
dhewg: as part of the checkra1n team, already wrote a good part of pongoOS targeting that hardware already
<never_released>
so...
<dhewg>
oh alright
<dhewg>
not an apple user, sorry for not having a clue about the current jailbreak scene
<jn__>
it would be interesting (in my opinion) to see mainline support for iphones/ipads at some point (if the available exploits are sustainable enough, which appears to be the case with checkm8/checkra1n)
<never_released>
jn__: technically
<never_released>
all the currently submitted patches work just as well on iPhone
<jn__>
makes sense, for basic stuff like interrupt controllers and uart
<r1fl>
marcan: streams are amazing!!! can't wait to binge as much as I can this weekend
<dhewg>
but how come they're just now starting get interested in mainlining all that?
<jn__>
(probably for a lot else too, but at some point there will be differences)
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<jn__>
never_released: anyway, cool stuff, thanks for your work :)
<never_released>
dhewg: just iPhone isn't interesting
<r1fl>
marcan: how can you keep focus for such a long period of time?
<snalty>
I think that just comes when you're working on something fun and exciting
<snalty>
The time just flies
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<dhewg>
never_released: alright, looking forward to see some m1 patches land
<dhewg>
but they're interested in maintaining those drivers? them not submitting themselves and you adding them to MAINTAINERS looks a bit... unusual :)
<j`ey>
dhewg: Stan already ACKed that :)
<marcan>
yes but ACKing it doesn't mean it makes sense :p
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<davidrysk[m]>
There’s enough interest here that I expect any early patches to get refactored a lot
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<Shiz>
ohai never_released
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<vijfhoek>
q3k|m: there's a massive difference in quality with breadboards. if you get a good quality breadboard, you'll basically never have to worry about janky connections
<vijfhoek>
(as long as you're keeping the frequencies low of course)
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<narmstrong>
right selection of dt-bindings vendor name and scheme for compatible strings should be done carefully in order to have the first patches accepted, maintainers & reviewers will be very picky about that
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<Shiz>
rip matrix
<eta>
we love it when the bridge falls over
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<q3k|m>
hey i'm still on matrix
<narmstrong>
marcan: do you know who will maintain the arm64 apple support ?
<stemnic>
q3k|m: you are most likely on another bridge than matrix.org
<narmstrong>
(if it has been discussed)
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<q3k|m>
stemnic: yeah, but let's keep this on topic, sorry
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<Glanzmann>
Hello; I try to boot the corellium live thing on an macbook air; I did the dd, installed the kernel, but do not know how I boot the custom kernel once installed. So I'm stuck between step 5 and 6. Has someone figured it out?
<never_released>
Glanzmann: Mac mini for now
<Glanzmann>
I see.
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<Glanzmann>
Is there any benefit for a german resident to donate using github instead of patreon?
<marcan>
narmstrong: I'm happy to do so of course, but I don't know what plans the corellium guys have
<marcan>
Glanzmann: githug should have lower taxes
<Glanzmann>
Than I'll switch.
<j`ey>
githug :D
<marcan>
lol
<modwizcode>
I want a github
<modwizcode>
*githug
<modwizcode>
I made a typo that spelled it right
<marcan>
also the corellium tech demo is fine and all but at this point I'd advise people to relax and let us write up some more documentation :)
<marcan>
it's not like you can do much with it right now anyway
<marcan>
it doesn't even support the keyboard on the laptops
<modwizcode>
I'd appreciate an AIC doc being written up. I suppose I could rewatch the stream and do that
<Glanzmann>
Just wanted to try it out. I see.
<modwizcode>
Ooo keyboard support would be a nice thing to work on
<modwizcode>
marcan: did you make any progress on the dart?
<davidrysk[m]>
You could also write up docs based on XNU if all you’re doing is writing up docs
<modwizcode>
I hear the corellium folks have some of that figured out
<modwizcode>
I knew that page was there so I was clearly thinking about another piece of hardware
<marcan>
I didn't look at dart, but corellium have already published patches for that so there is no point any more
<modwizcode>
Damn it would have been fun to watch you poke at it more ;p
<marcan>
the last two streams were an educational exercise, now that penguins and a root shell happened there is no reason for me not to look at their code
<modwizcode>
yeah
<Shiz>
appreciate you still doing the streams btw
<marcan>
I'm still going to fill in gaps anyway, because as much as they know about these SoCs their schtick is virtualization which means they need to implement what macOS/iOS use, not what the hardware really does
<marcan>
so I'm sure there is still room for plenty of my let-me-twiddle-bits-and-see-what-happens streams
<modwizcode>
Yeah speaking of virtualization I think it might be cool to try to upstream support into qemu
<modwizcode>
But uh. they're not gonna do that for us ;)
<modwizcode>
Ahh the classic "emulate what it actually uses" where have I heard that before :)
<j`ey>
you mean AIC etc in qemu, or what?
<marcan>
there are qemu forks that can boot xnu/darwin to some extent on amd64
<diddledan>
bit twiddling is like shooting a gun in the dark - you have no idea what is getting hit until you hear a grunt and then a thud
<JTL>
modwizcode: BUSINESS_MODEL_CONFLICT
<modwizcode>
I've read some posts about that marcan
<JTL>
:p
<modwizcode>
But mostly people are hacking shit together afaik
<marcan>
diddledan: try sending packets to a completely unknown usb peripheral
<modwizcode>
and yeah getting AIC I think is the main thing
<marcan>
that was literally worked out by me just trying to send it random garbage
<marcan>
I have never seen that protocol before, all I had was "one out EP and two in EPs"
<modwizcode>
Speaking of the debug usb when you said "registers" did you really mean CPU registers or are they just random
<marcan>
still just scratching the surface, but not bad for fuzz style protocol reversing :p
<modwizcode>
*er random registers of *something*
<marcan>
yes, *something*
<marcan>
I have no idea what
<modwizcode>
got it
<marcan>
it's just some register map
<j`ey>
eventually the registers spell out: GOT YOU MORON
<j`ey>
:P
<modwizcode>
lol
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<Glanzmann>
No taxes on github, because I'm a freelancer. Perfect.
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<Fanfwe>
marcan: I can see that the Patreon goal is met at 77%. But I can't seem to see where you are at on Github. Taking both Patreon and github into account, have you met the full goal ?
<marcan>
Fanfwe: switch your currency to $ and try again, Patreon is bugged
<marcan>
in *total* we're at about 70% as of a couple days ago
<eta>
what was the GOT YOU MORON thing about?
<ar>
eta: that's upstream (in current vanilla kernel) in kernel/irq/settings.h
<eta>
but why?
<Fanfwe>
so people don't use those stuff, maybe ? :)
<ar>
my guess someone was feeling particularly childish that day
<eta>
oh I see, you're supposed to use _IRQ_PER_CPU instead of IRQ_PER_CPU
<eta>
they could've at least added a comment to make that clear :P
<Fanfwe>
being called a moron at build time isn't clear enough ? :)
<modwizcode>
Yeah i need to be called a moron at source time
<marcan>
eta: no, you're supposed to use the functions
<marcan>
this is a migration header
<marcan>
I think the point is that if you include this, you aren't supposed to do things the old way any more
<never_released>
for keyboard/touchpad on laptop stay tuned
<never_released>
(it's just over SPI, nothing special)
<modwizcode>
At least it's not i2c
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<Fanfwe>
it's been SPI in Apple Intel laptops for a long time. They probably just carried things over.
<marcan>
the *keyboard*?
<Fanfwe>
I think so, yes
<marcan>
I thought that was virtual USB on the T2 laptops
<Fanfwe>
well
<modwizcode>
what is virtual USB
<marcan>
they did a virtual USB thing for the T2
<marcan>
a custom USB controller model
<Fanfwe>
On the T2 maybe, yeah
<never_released>
marcan: the keyboard is plugged over SPI to the T2
<marcan>
yeah that would make sense
<never_released>
and then T2 exports it to the host over VHCI
<Fanfwe>
but it is both
<never_released>
on those AS Macs, you have raw access to the SPI controller of course
<Fanfwe>
There are some cases when machine is damaged where your boot keys to reset SMC and other stuff will work, but then once booted in mac os, no keyboard
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<Fanfwe>
because keyboard is available both over USB and SPI, and bootrom uses one way, while MacOS uses the other way
<modwizcode>
that sorta makes sense
<luca020400>
What is using PCIe on the m1? wlan chip?
<Fanfwe>
well, this also means that your keyboard signals land on the logic board, are being routed over to the trackpad flex cable. Then on the trackpad there is a chip that makes it SPI, and the SPI bus then travels across the flex cable back to the logic board.
<Fanfwe>
Which means a dead trackpad can cause no keyboard
<Fanfwe>
So I'm not so sure it really makes sense :P
<marcan>
luca020400: usb-A for one
<marcan>
and ethernet
<never_released>
luca020400: Thunderbolt 4, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth , Ethernet, USB-A
<luca020400>
oh it also has tb4, missed it
<luca020400>
thanks
<marcan>
TB isn't pcie physically but presumably they route it to the same controller internally
<marcan>
there are no TB PCIe lanes on the board
<never_released>
it's PCIe over a different physical layer
<marcan>
it's integrated
<never_released>
yes
<marcan>
the intel chips on the board are just redrivers
<never_released>
exactly
<ar>
so they have a non-intel tb controller now?
<marcan>
yes
<marcan>
part of the M1
<marcan>
never_released: is usbhost on the tb ports also dwc3, or some internal xhci? I thought I saw xhci on the apple devicetree for those
<never_released>
marcan: dwc3 works fine for the two ports
<never_released>
usb-drd
<davidrysk[m]>
marcan: any chance it's similar to lightning swd?
<marcan>
?
<davidrysk[m]>
the swd/jtag functionality that is exposed for iOS devices on the lightning port
<luca020400>
Is the linux dwc3 driver working, or it also needs some quirks?
<davidrysk[m]>
sorry, talking about two different things
<never_released>
luca020400: some very light ones
<never_released>
the bulk of the work was getting the IOMMU set up
<luca020400>
not bad, I'm used to QCOM dwc3 changes so it's usually bad here
<gruetzkopf>
usb spec only allows two usb2 pairs if the other end is not typec, but custom
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<marcan>
I know
<marcan>
but the usb spec also doesn't allow extension cables period
<marcan>
and an extension cable with two usb2 pairs would not be evil per se
<marcan>
(noncompliant, but wouldn't break anything, probably)
<gruetzkopf>
all extension cables i've cut up use normal cable
<gruetzkopf>
they aren't flip tolerant
<gruetzkopf>
only one CC wire
<marcan>
lol
<marcan>
I think the ones I saw on aliexpress have 2
<marcan>
counting wires
<gruetzkopf>
they are for usb2 (by shorting at the receptacle)
<gruetzkopf>
(cue typeC to MDR)
<JTL>
marcan: A keyboard of mine has an A female socket on it and came with one of those ghastly USB-A->A cables.
<JTL>
Because mini/micro USB made too sense I guess?
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<davidrysk[m]>
I got a usb-c extension cable and the manufacturer specifically states that its usb2 support is not bidirectional
<davidrysk[m]>
(meaning, you can't flip the connector)
<davidrysk[m]>
(why did I get one? to use a peripheral where the manufacturer does not make a longer cabled version)
<davidrysk[m]>
btw I do think t8103 makes sense over m1 as that is the engineering name of this SoC
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<Fanfwe>
marcan: my FUSB302 was indeed on another i2c address (0x23). Thanks for the heads up, it works now.
<maximus64>
I guess you also bought the FUSB302B chip lol
<Fanfwe>
Yes. But I did not pay attention to the fact that they have 4 different part numbers, with a different i2c address each. So when I tried vdmtool, it would not see my chip because the code uses 0x22 and my chip was 0x23.
<maximus64>
yup I'm in the same boat. Spend 2hr debugging / resoldering then realize the FUSB302B have different datasheet
<Fanfwe>
haha. same here
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<gruetzkopf>
ah. so that's how you use multiple of them on the same bus
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<maximus64>
yup that what the FUSB302B is for. It have 4 different part with different slave adddress. So you can use them in the sam bus
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<davidrysk[m]>
new macOS beta
<davidrysk[m]>
or rather, release candidate
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