<airlied>
fg is optional, and afaik on intel isn't done in special hw
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<Lynne>
yeah, we decided to let users handle tat
<Lynne>
*that
<Lynne>
we've got very fast aom/dav1d-exact shaders for that already, but without any intel support, there hasn't really been a reason to implement that
<Lynne>
how complete is the implementation?
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<zzoon>
iirc it fails on some cts tests. I'll try again a bit later.
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<DemiMarie>
Lynne: Would this allow replacing `intel-media-driver`, which is a complete nightmare to package?
<Lynne>
yeah, there's already a patch to support av1 vaapi in zink on top of vulkan
<Lynne>
probably not vaapi filters yet, though, so no deinterlacing or scaling, but in general if you're using them you're asking for trouble
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<Lynne>
ofc if you stay in vulkan land, we already have much better filters to handle these use cases
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<DemiMarie>
Lynne: what do you mean by "asking for trouble?
<Lynne>
very low quality
<DemiMarie>
Would it be possible to replace all uses of VAAPI on Intel?
<DemiMarie>
intel-media-driver is a total nightmare to package because so many parts of it require proprietary closed-source shaders, and rebuilding the open-source shaders from source is broken and unsupported.
<airlied>
do you have an enumerated list of uses for it?
<DemiMarie>
I mean providing a drop-in ABI compatible library
<airlied>
if you start writing it now
<DemiMarie>
I'll take that to mean "it is possible, but not currently planned."
<airlied>
vaapi afaik is an API provided by libva, the driver backends can provide different things
<DemiMarie>
Ah, I see
<airlied>
intel-media-driver is one backend, whether someone can duplicate that backend, depends on how much effort you put in
<DemiMarie>
Does Vulkan Video use intel-media-driver?
* DemiMarie
wonders why intel-media-driver was kept out of Mesa, unlike AMD VAAPI which is in Mesa
<airlied>
Vulkan Video and an API provided by Khronos, the driver backends are not
<airlied>
some of your questions don't sound like you think them all the way through :-)
<airlied>
it's like saying does VULKAN use NVIDIA?\
<airlied>
there are lots of implementations of vulkan video from lots of sources and they all provide different feature sets that are expressed through the vulkan api
<DemiMarie>
I botched the phrasing on this one
<DemiMarie>
What I meant is: Does the ANV implementation of vulkan-video drive the hardware directly, or does it use a library such as intel-media-driver?
<airlied>
currently it drivers the hw directly
<airlied>
because I wrote it like that
<DemiMarie>
makes sense
<DemiMarie>
Are my other questions generally better?
<airlied>
the thing is intel-media-driver could still provide a vulkan video API alongside anv's
<airlied>
with more features
<airlied>
there is nothing stopping you from having two vulkan drivers for the same hw providing different queues
<airlied>
if I was to speculate wildly on what Intel's windows vulkan drivers does, it would probably involve media-driver linkages
<airlied>
whether they feel bold enough to propose that for Linux, not sure yet :-)
<DemiMarie>
Considering that intel-media-driver is an unmediated trainwreck for distro packaging (or anyone else who isn't okay with prebuilt media kernel binaries), I hope not :-)
<DemiMarie>
Also, this explains why my attempts to search for various Vulkan symbols in the Mesa codebase failed. If there are two Vulkan drivers (for the same or different hardware) in the same process, then the Vulkan entrypoints must actually be in a completely different library that dispatches the function call.
<airlied>
all vulkan stuff goes through the vulkan loader
<airlied>
all vaapi goes via libva
<HdkR>
Does Vulkan allow a video decode/encode only device without rendering/compute capabilities?
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<airlied>
HdkR: yes
<HdkR>
Nice
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<soreau>
Is it possible to create a cuda-on-compute implementation or so?
<airlied>
a what now?
<soreau>
like implement cuda API without nvidia
<soreau>
or does nvidia have special hw instructions for it
<airlied>
that's what ZLUDA is
<airlied>
and yes
<soreau>
oh
* soreau
never heard of zluda before
<soreau>
nice, thanks
<mupuf>
airlied is on fire today :D
<mupuf>
My turn! Can I get free candy?
<soreau>
heh
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<airlied>
mupuf: now I want free candy :-P
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<mupuf>
airlied: hehe
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<dolphin>
airlied, sima: Do you rather have drm-intel-gt-next PR this week or -rc6 week after holidays? It's currently 11 patches.
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<airlied>
dolphin: drop one this week if you have a chance, might as well get it merged
<sima>
dolphin, I guess send it out if you're bored now and then another for -rc6
<sima>
yeah same :-)
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<dolphin>
Ok, I shall send it this week, then will be off over holidays
<dolphin>
I'll send it on Wed so that if something goes belly up, there is time to deal with it before being gone in the snow
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<jfalempe>
javierm: I think I found another bug with simpledrm. In libdrm, the function drmAvailable(), only checks for the card0. But when you boot with simpledrm, the card0 is gone and your gpu driver is usually the card1.
<tzimmermann>
jfalempe, that's is a behaving userspace (libdrm). it should test a range of minor devices. simpledrm simply exposes it. and as with all code tha tuses access(), when you get the result, the system might have changed and your information is obsolete
<tzimmermann>
IIRC we've heard about similar issues wrt SDL's drm code
<tzimmermann>
years ago
<jfalempe>
tzimmermann: I was debugging kmscon on a laptop, and this is why it gives a black screen, as drmAvailble() returns 0, it thinks it can't draw.
<tzimmermann>
yeah
<tzimmermann>
but hotplug-able devices come and go. kmscon needs to deal with that
<jfalempe>
yes, I can just remove the drmAvailable() check, because it is then able to use the card anyway. (it uses udev/seats to get the right minor).
<tzimmermann>
kmscon is outdated AFAIK. i'd just remove that call for now (if it's only for testing)
<tzimmermann>
with udev it appears to do the right thing already
<jfalempe>
tzimmermann: yes, but sadly there are not much alternatives to kmscon.
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<sima>
tzimmermann, jfalempe I guess in the absolute worst case we could do a hack so that simpledrm gets only minor >= 1
<sima>
but it's a bit a terrible one
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<jannau>
not really a solution as that would then break if simpledrm is the only kms device
<jannau>
non-kms drm devices would need to avoid minor == 0 too
<sima>
uh yeah
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<robclark>
sima: I guess w/ eGPUs you could manage to get yourself into a situation where card0 is unplugged
<robclark>
so I think just call this a userspace bug and fix it there
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<tzimmermann>
sima, no one has really complained so far. let's keep quiet about it :)
<tzimmermann>
and it could happen in any combination of hotplugged display cards/drivers
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<jfalempe>
I think the drmAvailble() API is a bit useless anyway, that's probably why no one complained yet.
<sima>
lucaceresoli, patchwork tries to guess status, it's not accurate in any way
<lucaceresoli>
sima: thanks, I'm going to ignore the patchwork status then
<lucaceresoli>
sima: but even disregarding the patchwork status the question stands: what to do with a "someone acked, nobody objected, nothing happened in a month" kind of patch series? Resending after a while is what is suggested by other subsystem mantainers, I'll assume it's valid for DRM too unless there are other hints.
<sima>
yeah resending after a month is fine
<lucaceresoli>
sima: thanks
<sima>
and then trying to find someone with commit rights to get things landed
<javierm>
jfalempe: what tzimmermann said, that's a user-space bug. Since device numbering is not really deterministic in Linux
<javierm>
jfalempe: that's true in general, not only about DRM
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<jfalempe>
javierm: yes it's a libdrm bug, I will see if I can fix it, or otherwise deprecate it.
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<javierm>
jfalempe: great, thanks!
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<TheJanzap>
Hello! I've encountered a performance regression when playing Counter-Strike 2 with Steam Flatpak on the 6.12 kernel compared to 6.11. I have been asked by the developers to report this to my GPU driver repo, but I'm unsure where exactly to post this. Since I'm on Flatpak with an AMD card, this would be the Mesa/Mesa flatpak, right?
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<iive>
TheJanzap, interesting...
<iive>
there is also #radeon channel here, specifically for amd video cards.
<iive>
I guess you are using distro kernel and not compiling your own.
<TheJanzap>
Yeah, I'm on Arch and had issues on 6.12.4-arch1-1 so I'm back on 6.11.9-arch1-1 for now where performance is normal. Haven't changed anything else
<iive>
can you compare the kernel config files, just to make sure that the problem is not a new CPU exploit mitigations?
<iive>
btw, is the performance regression a dramatic one?
<iive>
I'm thinking some change that might have disabled the hw acceleration entirely.
<TheJanzap>
which config files are you talking about specifically? I haven't really changed much, so unless the default Arch kernel or upstream changed something I probably don't think so
<TheJanzap>
Yeah, I went from 300 FPS with ~5ms frame time to 50-80 FPS with 10-25ms frame time with max sometimes around 50ms in-game and in the menus
<iive>
TheJanzap, the config for building the kernel. Some kernels are built with copy of the file in /proc/config.gz
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<soreau>
vblank_mode=0?
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<soreau>
sounds like maybe before, you had no vsync and now, you do :)
<iive>
that's good idea, but the game should have it as option... and it shouldn't change with the kernel
<soreau>
right, but it might have changed with steam flatpak or something
<airlied>
or maybe some VRR
<iive>
flatpak means it runs in its own namespace, with its own libraries, and that makes simple checks harder.
<TheJanzap>
huh, yeah just changing the kernel shouldn't change the in game settings, but I can give it a shot
<iive>
TheJanzap, is the game using OpenGL or Vulkan? Do you have a way to check what is the rendering driver?
<iive>
Like, does it mention AMDGPU or LLVM softpipe.
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<TheJanzap>
afaik vsync is off by default. I've reset the graphic config multiple times, so even if it was on, it shoud have been reset
<TheJanzap>
Counter-Strike 2 only has Vulkan support on Linux, MangoHud also says so
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<iive>
oh. I had no idea. I apparently have it (f2p?) but I've never tried it. 45GB is a bit much.
<TheJanzap>
well, since i'm now on 6.11 further testing doesn't make sense and I don't feel like switching back to 6.12 now cause I'm going to bed soon. any way I can follow up on this in a few days? should I create an issue in the Mesa repo?
<TheJanzap>
but what I can say is that the game currently runs on XWayland, the game can run under wayland but has some quirks right now
<iive>
You can create one, but it would be helpful to locate the problem. Developers can't do much if they can't reproduce it.
<iive>
what is your video card?
<iive>
phoronix does regular benchmarks, so such regression are found quickly.
<soreau>
could it be that the card is in a lower power state than high?
<TheJanzap>
Radeon RX 7900 XTX
<TheJanzap>
yeah, I'd like to give as much info as I can to make it reproducable and fix this. I was also unsure if I could even file an issue with mesa directly because of Flatpak
<iive>
TheJanzap, btw, there is native CS2 and that's what you are running? Not windows CS2 under proton?
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<TheJanzap>
nope, native. running under proton is unsupported and doing so may or may not cause trouble with the anti-cheat
<iive>
that's good, you can put some env vars to debug stuff... eventually.
<iive>
I would love seeing some GALLIUM_HUD stuff, but afaik, vulkan doesn't use gallium. I can't find vulkan_hud...
<iive>
there might be some vulkan overlay, but no idea how it plays with the flatpak
<lstrano>
iive: he is using mangohud (which is a vulkan layer that overlays information on top of)
<iive>
oh, yes. he did mention it.
<lstrano>
(mesa also has a simple vulkan layer that shows fps information if you choose to build and install it)
<TheJanzap>
I've also removed MangoHud from the launch options, but this didn't have any noticable impact. The only things I've tried that did were ruinning the game under X11 (slight perf improvement) and switching back to 6.11, which seems to have fixed it entirely
<iive>
TheJanzap, while you were with the mangohud, when you had perf regression (6.12) was the CPU maxed out, and was there any load on the GPU?
<TheJanzap>
CPU was normal around 30-50%. The GPU was at a constant 100%, even in the menus. Which was wierd because usually the fans spin up loud enough for me to hear them, but here I didn't.
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<TheJanzap>
seen both in MangoHud and the KDE system monitor
<iive>
interesting. is your CPU with hyper-threading?
<iive>
(SMT on amd)
<TheJanzap>
It's an 7800X3D so it should, right?
<iive>
games usually avoid running two threads on same core.
<iive>
the sw render would probably use everything it could.
<iive>
anyway, good luck.
<TheJanzap>
I don't even think that the Source 2 engine has a software renderer anymore. I know goldsource has, but I don't know about source 1
<iive>
mesa does have a number of them. I think vulkan also has sw one.
<iive>
e.g. `vulkaninfo` gives me GPU 1 "llvmpipe" that's sw render
<HdkR>
4
<TheJanzap>
wouldn't using the software renderer entirely avoid the GPU? so a 100% GPU usage wouldn't even be possible?
<iive>
yes, that's the idea.
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<iive>
i also guess that vsync/vblank would block rendering, so the GPU would be <100%
<TheJanzap>
so even if for some reason CS2 or vulkan or whatever was using llvmpipe, this would not be the cause of my issue, since the GPU is constantly at 100%
<iive>
there might be env var that forces always_software rendering.
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<TheJanzap>
well, whatever it may be, I'll catch some sleep now. thanks for your support guys, I hope we can get to the cause of this
<iive>
`export LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1` works for OpenGL and most of gallium. no idea about vulkan/radv
<iive>
good luck. you'll need it :)
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