ChanServ changed the topic of #panfrost to: Panfrost - FLOSS Mali Midgard & Bifrost - Logs - <macc24> i have been here before it was popular
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<robmur01> no other Malis that I know of; Adrenos with MMU-500 might technically have Stage 2 but I guess it's probably locked down by firmware
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<robclark> robmur01: I think all the adreno's post a2xx have two stage.. but stage 2 is locked down on android firmware (but not CrOS fw.. and probably not on android-auto either but I don't have one of those devices ;-))
<robclark> someone working on a science experiment thing did get it working to pass adreno device thru to guest in the "normal" way (ie. linux hypervisor controlling stage 2)
<macc24> robclark: if i run cros firmware on android phone would it work
<robclark> macc24: no, firmware binary is going to be pretty SoC specific
<robclark> also, I'd assume it's signed
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<CounterPillow> In case it wasn't linked here before, PINE64 is offering subsidised RK3588 dev boards to developers, $150 instead of the >$300 BOM cost. May be interesting to anyone writing Valhall (I think that's the name of that gen, right?) drivers
<macc24> i lowkey want one to switch my primary development machine to arm64 instead of x86_64 but x86 has better price to performance ratio and i have a very limited budget :/
<CounterPillow> It's mainly interesting for writing code for, not writing code on, right now. Though Collabora has just sent in a "it boots Debian on a single A55 core" patchset to the mailing list.
<greenjustin> I'd bet A78s would be good for a development machine if they weren't all in low end mobile SoCs
<macc24> i wouldn't call a78 low end
<greenjustin> Well, no, I suppose not
<anarsoul> CounterPillow: yay!
<robmur01> Well, we've given the world Cortex-A78C and a DSU to fit 8 of them, somebody just needs to be brave and build it :)
<CounterPillow> Sure, let me scrounge up some VC funding to bring to life a product with extremely niche appeal
* robmur01 is sad that that's probably true. Hey lets make more miniscule variations on mid-range big.LITTLE SoCs that only support Android, that's what the market loves! :(
<Pu244> Heh. I would /love/ an 8xA78 board.
<Pu244> I literally define "niche market." :(
<anarsoul> I guess pretty much everyone in this channel would love 8xA78 :)
<anarsoul> with 32G of RAM
<Pu244> And nvme? :D
<anarsoul> and multiple x16 PCIe slots
<anarsoul> well, x4 would also work :)
<greenjustin> I suppose I'm not the general consumer, but some of the benchmarks I've run on A78s come close to my workstation Xeon. For the price and power efficiency, that would be a win in my book
<greenjustin> I guess the trouble is a lot of software isn't ported to ARM yet though, so normal folks wouldn't want one
<cphealy> normal? ;-)
<greenjustin> Non-developers, but folks who want more horsepower than a smartphone or chromebook. Which is I guess statistically probably not the average computer user, come to think of it
<HdkR> We talking about Nvidia Orin?
<HdkR> It has 8 or 12 A78AE cores on it
<HdkR> Depending on model
<HdkR> With 32GB of RAM
<HdkR> and multiple PCIe slots if you get the Clara platform
<HdkR> (Clara platform doesn't have Orin but it is inevitable)
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<greenjustin> I wasn't before, but I might be now :-)
<HdkR> Quite a step up from the Xavier platform
<Pu244> So, I think the problem in a nutshell is, "There's no mid-market for developer-friendly ARM boards." In the low end, $50-$150 market, sure. But once you hit the $400 price point... who in their right mind (outside a few nuts in here and other similar places who use IRC daily) would pay $400 for an ARM board with decent specs, when they could get an x86 system that ran Windows and games and stuff for the same cost?
<Pu244> Or, at least, ran Linux such that it didn't have weird corner cases with Electron crap, and was supported by everyone?
<Pu244> I don't *like* that state of affairs, but neither am I going to drop a few million into a board that would service me and a few close friends, in terms of actual market. :/
<HdkR> Sadly that market kind of died back when... Exynos 5420? SBC timelines?
<HdkR> Would probably help if there were a wackload of cheap Snapdragon boards on the market I guess :P
<Pu244> Yeah, well... the state of modern computing is in directions I no longer like.
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<FLHerne> The "runs Windows" thing might be changing, they're doing Windows-on-ARM with x86-64 emulation now
<FLHerne> I think that's the main usecase for Microsoft/Collabora's work on Mesa stuff with GLon12 etc. ?
<FLHerne> because Qualcomm could be bothered to write a DX driver but not a GL one
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<robmur01> So who'd pay $200ish for a Snapdragon 7c box running Windows then? ;) Seems like those might be the new thing
<robclark> I'd still recommend the chromebook flavor of 7c things... at least if you want to do anything w/ kvm
<robclark> the sd windows laptops boot kernel in EL1 as well :-(
<robmur01> current ones have Hyper-V and WSL2, which would be kinda hard without EL2
<robclark> (plus the chromebook ones already are pretty functional with upstream kernel.. windows ones would take some work)
<robclark> they do it somehow differently.. somehow moving to EL2 after boot with some sort of psci (or something) dance?? I'm not really sure the details
<robclark> but from the description I'd heard, it sounds a lot like their acpi implementation... "special"
<robmur01> ah, OK, I can believe that
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