09:03 <robmur01> no other Malis that I know of; Adrenos with MMU-500 might technically have Stage 2 but I guess it's probably locked down by firmware

14:10 <robclark> robmur01: I think all the adreno's post a2xx have two stage.. but stage 2 is locked down on android firmware (but not CrOS fw.. and probably not on android-auto either but I don't have one of those devices ;-))

14:11 <robclark> someone working on a science experiment thing did get it working to pass adreno device thru to guest in the "normal" way (ie. linux hypervisor controlling stage 2)

14:49 <macc24> robclark: if i run cros firmware on android phone would it work

14:51 <robclark> macc24: no, firmware binary is going to be pretty SoC specific

14:51 <robclark> also, I'd assume it's signed

17:58 <CounterPillow> In case it wasn't linked here before, PINE64 is offering subsidised RK3588 dev boards to developers, $150 instead of the >$300 BOM cost. May be interesting to anyone writing Valhall (I think that's the name of that gen, right?) drivers https://preorder.pine64.org/

17:59 <macc24> i lowkey want one to switch my primary development machine to arm64 instead of x86_64 but x86 has better price to performance ratio and i have a very limited budget :/

18:06 <CounterPillow> It's mainly interesting for writing code for, not writing code on, right now. Though Collabora has just sent in a "it boots Debian on a single A55 core" patchset to the mailing list.

18:11 <greenjustin> I'd bet A78s would be good for a development machine if they weren't all in low end mobile SoCs

18:12 <macc24> i wouldn't call a78 low end

18:15 <greenjustin> Well, no, I suppose not

18:16 <anarsoul> CounterPillow: yay!

18:24 <robmur01> Well, we've given the world Cortex-A78C and a DSU to fit 8 of them, somebody just needs to be brave and build it :)

18:37 <CounterPillow> Sure, let me scrounge up some VC funding to bring to life a product with extremely niche appeal

19:06 <Pu244> Heh. I would /love/ an 8xA78 board.

19:06 <Pu244> I literally define "niche market." :(

19:07 <anarsoul> I guess pretty much everyone in this channel would love 8xA78 :)

19:07 <anarsoul> with 32G of RAM

19:07 <Pu244> And nvme? :D

19:07 <anarsoul> and multiple x16 PCIe slots

19:07 <anarsoul> well, x4 would also work :)

19:15 <greenjustin> I suppose I'm not the general consumer, but some of the benchmarks I've run on A78s come close to my workstation Xeon. For the price and power efficiency, that would be a win in my book

19:16 <greenjustin> I guess the trouble is a lot of software isn't ported to ARM yet though, so normal folks wouldn't want one

19:17 <cphealy> normal? ;-)

19:23 <greenjustin> Non-developers, but folks who want more horsepower than a smartphone or chromebook. Which is I guess statistically probably not the average computer user, come to think of it

19:24 <HdkR> We talking about Nvidia Orin?

19:24 <HdkR> It has 8 or 12 A78AE cores on it

19:24 <HdkR> Depending on model

19:24 <HdkR> With 32GB of RAM

19:24 <HdkR> and multiple PCIe slots if you get the Clara platform

19:25 <HdkR> (Clara platform doesn't have Orin but it is inevitable)

19:30 <greenjustin> I wasn't before, but I might be now :-)

19:31 <HdkR> Quite a step up from the Xavier platform

19:33 <Pu244> So, I think the problem in a nutshell is, "There's no mid-market for developer-friendly ARM boards." In the low end, $50-$150 market, sure. But once you hit the $400 price point... who in their right mind (outside a few nuts in here and other similar places who use IRC daily) would pay $400 for an ARM board with decent specs, when they could get an x86 system that ran Windows and games and stuff for the same cost?

19:33 <Pu244> Or, at least, ran Linux such that it didn't have weird corner cases with Electron crap, and was supported by everyone?

19:33 <Pu244> I don't *like* that state of affairs, but neither am I going to drop a few million into a board that would service me and a few close friends, in terms of actual market. :/

19:37 <HdkR> Sadly that market kind of died back when... Exynos 5420? SBC timelines?

19:38 <HdkR> Would probably help if there were a wackload of cheap Snapdragon boards on the market I guess :P

19:39 <Pu244> Yeah, well... the state of modern computing is in directions I no longer like.

20:44 <FLHerne> The "runs Windows" thing might be changing, they're doing Windows-on-ARM with x86-64 emulation now

20:45 <FLHerne> I think that's the main usecase for Microsoft/Collabora's work on Mesa stuff with GLon12 etc. ?

20:46 <FLHerne> because Qualcomm could be bothered to write a DX driver but not a GL one

21:17 <robmur01> So who'd pay $200ish for a Snapdragon 7c box running Windows then? ;) Seems like those might be the new thing

21:19 <robclark> I'd still recommend the chromebook flavor of 7c things... at least if you want to do anything w/ kvm

21:19 <robclark> the sd windows laptops boot kernel in EL1 as well :-(

21:20 <robmur01> current ones have Hyper-V and WSL2, which would be kinda hard without EL2

21:20 <robclark> (plus the chromebook ones already are pretty functional with upstream kernel.. windows ones would take some work)

21:21 <robclark> they do it somehow differently.. somehow moving to EL2 after boot with some sort of psci (or something) dance?? I'm not really sure the details

21:21 <robclark> but from the description I'd heard, it sounds a lot like their acpi implementation... "special"

21:22 <robmur01> ah, OK, I can believe that