ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
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<pq>
emersion, I replied in gitlab about the output transform clarification.
<emersion>
ty!
<pq>
playing with a pen, paper and scissors should help understand :-)
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<pq>
cut a sheet of paper, label it as "buffer" and draw something totally asymmetric on it
<pq>
take another sheet of paper, (cut out the inside,) mark the normal up and right orientation, and label it as the monitor
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<zamundaaa[m]>
MrCooper: as I see it, it's getting an acquire fence and using it as if the client had explicit sync support
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<zamundaaa[m]>
What would you describe it as instead?
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<MrCooper>
implicit sync in the protocol works the same regardless
<MrCooper>
I didn't mention anything about explicit/implicit sync in my post because it's orthogonal
<MrCooper>
the same issue is possible with explicit sync if the compositor is stupid
<zamundaaa[m]>
Sure. I'm not saying your blog post is about explicit sync through a backdoor, only that it uses the kernel mechanism for explicit sync interop
<zamundaaa[m]>
I can reword it to be more clear about that
<MrCooper>
I'd appreciate that
<zamundaaa[m]>
is it better now?
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<MrCooper>
yes, thanks
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<Company>
zamundaaa: have you ever considered a global or per-app setting in KDE to force apps to integer scale factors even though the desktop is using fractional scaling?
<zamundaaa[m]>
no, not really. People have been asking for per-app scaling settings, but only for X11 apps so far
<zamundaaa[m]>
I have considered faking a higher resolution to apps though, like the super resolution feature on Windows
<zamundaaa[m]>
What would you want such a setting for?
<Company>
I was looking at scaling settings and just wondered
<Company>
there might be apps that can't properly deal with fractional scales - ie a common problem is seams - and you can trade those vs slight vlurriness
<Company>
and yeah, another option to avoid that might be some form of supersampling
<Company>
if I understand things correctly, Qt 6 and GTK 4 do render at fractional scales, but Mac OS does not
<Company>
and it might be that users (or developers?) might want to switch between the 2 modes
<zamundaaa[m]>
It wouldn't be difficult to implement per se, you can just filter out the global
<kennylevinsen>
hmm? pretty sure macOS has fractional scales through its 5 very abstract "size" settings (a scale that goes from "larger text" to "more space")...
<zamundaaa[m]>
MacOS only does integer scaling
<zamundaaa[m]>
What you're talking about might be a global text size setting or something like that?
<Company>
kennylevinsen: afaik MacOS renders apps at integer scales and then downscales them to the selected fractional scale
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<kennylevinsen>
No it's the whole UI, the control replaced their resolution controls when they added hiDPI support
<Company>
so whatever Qt5/GTK3 does
<kennylevinsen>
And the increments are certainly non-integer, but it may be that the apps render at 2x and are downscaled
<Company>
I think you can also select "low resolution" and then it upscales or so
<kennylevinsen>
This is the older control panel yeah, just pulled a random screenshot. But whether it shows scale or resolution has traditionally depended on the monitor - external third party monitors got the resolution drop-down, internal panels and I think apple screens got the scale options
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<Company>
they still don't show the scale factor though I think?
<kennylevinsen>
No they won't tell you what it is, just vague names for it...
<Company>
"1920x1080, 2560x1440, 3008x1692, 3360x1890 and 3840x2160" are the scales for those 5 options, so that's 2/1, 3/2, 60/47 and 8/7 (what is up with the last 2?)
<kennylevinsen>
That's some cursed fractions... :)
<kennylevinsen>
True, there isn't a reason you couldn't do it
<kennylevinsen>
But it's also not a normally exposed setting on their laptops so maybe it's not a "supported" use case.
<Company>
technically, that means all their text is slightly blurry though
<Company>
probably doesn't matter because their monitors are high enough dpi
<kennylevinsen>
Either way, zamundaaa seems right that the apps render integer, and it just gets scaled to the selected fraction like we used to in Wayland... land
<kennylevinsen>
To be fair, if you pick 3x scaling on these monitors you are probably doing out of visual accessibility needs and won't detect a slight clarity issue...
<kennylevinsen>
Hmm. Although, if 2.0 is their normal hidpi for their "middle" setting, a 50% "more text" boost is already 3.0 scaling. You have a point.
<kennylevinsen>
*bigger text
<Company>
the laptop I have is a 14" with 4k resolution - I usually drive that at 200% but I have been using 250% accidentally for a while
<Company>
and I'm not that blind
<kennylevinsen>
Yeah I was thinking of 1.0 being the starting point, in which case 3x over base scale is very big. 50% over base scale isn't that much.
<kennylevinsen>
Error on my part
<kchibisov>
Company: apple emboldens all the fonts and doesn't do subpixel.
<kchibisov>
so it's ok.
<kchibisov>
Like because fonts are _thick_ enough, it's really hard to notice.
<kennylevinsen>
No subpixel antialiasing is one of the few apple decisions I fully support
<kchibisov>
I hate font embolden thing.
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<kchibisov>
it just breaks all the metrics, etc.
<YaLTeR[m]>
also breaks websites for everyone else
<kchibisov>
They also tend to change the setting to disable this mess.
<kchibisov>
yeah, if you pick light font, it's like regular on apple stuff.
<kchibisov>
But with broken glyph shapes.
<Company>
YaLTeR[m]: fonts breaking everything is something that everyone should enjoy forever, so no pity from my side there
<Company>
I also love that Apple's fix for crappy looking fonts is "buy better monitor"
<Company>
the most rich people thing ever
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<mclasen>
its nice if you can assume working hw
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