<rennj>
"I believe that open-source software projects need to explore new telemetry designs that help developers get the information they need to work efficiently and effectively, without collecting invasive traces of detailed user activity,"
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<bbjimmy_64>
I'm good with remote telemetry for troubleshooting and development as long as it is strictly opt-in and not opt-out.
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<bjorkintosh>
now why would a tech giant give you that option, bbjimmy_64?
<bjorkintosh>
they *know* no sane person would choose it for the hell of it. so they assist with that choice!
<bbjimmy_64>
rennj was suggesting the need for talemetry for open-source software projects bjorkintosh
<rennj>
no i was quoting russ cox
<rennj>
from the article
<rennj>
and opt-out is lame...opt-in is better
<rennj>
... They believe that they have a right to gather data and that it's better to seek forgiveness via opt-out than to ask for permission unlikely to be given via opt-in.
<rennj>
from the link
<rennj>
the suck continues
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<bbjimmy_64>
If I'm using open source software and I know that the only data colected is regarding the software and its use cases, I will gladly opt in. it's only fair and I get the benifit of improvements to the software.
<rennj>
hell no
<rennj>
wonder what rob pike's view is...
<bjorkintosh>
rennj, system's development is dead. long live telemetry!
<rennj>
least #haiku is opt-in
<bjorkintosh>
at least.
<rennj>
$$$ yellowtab/zeta comes calling
<rennj>
let's do a paid product
<bbjimmy_64>
That left a bad taste in my mouth.
<rennj>
yep,
<bbjimmy_64>
Haiku development is not dead, otherwise I would not have been able to update the system 3 times in the last week.
<bjorkintosh>
bbjimmy_64, it's in reference to the rob pike (of Plan9 and Golang fame, among others) comment by rennj. http://herpolhode.com/rob/utah2000.pdf
<bbjimmy_64>
as per paid products, I tried to update Windows and ended up with a system that would not let me log in. Following the fixes on line left me with a system that would not boot. It is now running haiku happily.
<bjorkintosh>
I think rather than a posix shell, there should be a plan9 shell in Haiku with all the trimmings.
<rennj>
lame
<rennj>
hp-ux sh was posix shell
<rennj>
unlike solaris sh which was bourne and roots sh was static linked one.
<rennj>
solaris used csh more anyway
<rennj>
the JOY of UNIX
<rennj>
Bill Joy
<bjorkintosh>
joy of unix vi :-)
<rennj>
yeah i dont play much on haiku, but the kernel should have enough syscalls i can bypass libc/c++ foobar if i want to play around
<rennj>
whats nice about linux the abi between kernel/userland
<rennj>
rob pike was probably bummed out about plan9/lucent/inferno vm failure in market when he wrote that paper
<rennj>
i was bummed out solaris kernel was dead
<rennj>
solaris did actual work in industry unlike plan9
<x512[m]>
rennj: Haiku kernel syscalls are not supposed to have stable ABI.
<bjorkintosh>
x512[m], is that a beature or a fug?
<x512[m]>
bjorkintosh: It is a feature. You should use libroot.so, not syscalls directly.
<x512[m]>
Unstable syscall ABI gives more flexibility, for example modifying syscalls to add new functionality etc..
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<x512[m]>
Haiku stable ABI boundary is system shared library calls.
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<bjorkintosh>
<rennj> in the end, he was completely wrong. it's not a bad thing though.
<bjorkintosh>
9 years later, he was involved with the design and development of Golang.
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<rennj>
To be a viable computer system, one must honor a huge list of large, and often changing, standards: TCP/IP, HTTP, HTML, XML, CORBA, Unicode, POSIX, NFS, SMB, MIME, POP, IMAP, X, ...--rob pike utah2000
* grobe0ba
has set away! (auto away after idling [15 min]) [Log:ON] .gz.
<bjorkintosh>
not necessarily true. a number of embedded systems exist blissfully unaware of that list.
<bjorkintosh>
otherwise they just run linux.
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<rennj>
grrr....oh sure it was written in 2000...IoT devices...
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<rennj>
pentium3 days..haha
<rennj>
space heater
<rennj>
i had space heaters...dual 1000watt psu for 750MHz
<rennj>
supercomputer in your pocket yeah not...palm pilot was arm/dragon cpu...at nothing...
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 66b0f29 - qr_code_generator, bump version (#7844)
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<bjorkintosh>
<rennj> the book was good also...balsa wood boats doing epic sail I've read it. there's also a movie.
<rennj>
yeah great book, the movie was bogus
<bjorkintosh>
it was in Norwegian. I didn't understand it.
<rennj>
or perhaps im thinking of the bogus movie with the guy/girl romance on raft they build...
<bjorkintosh>
the thing is, all he's complaining about is now past, thanks to moore's law. I mean, this was 12 years before the first raspberry pi.
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<bjorkintosh>
and arguably, plan9 is in the same plane of existence as BeOS. Studied carefully and reimplemented and still used.
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<andreasdr>
Hmm. Still no quaternion.
<andreasdr>
:(((
<andreasdr>
So qt5 apps always still ask me to install "qt platform plugins".
<andreasdr>
Oh its a package I need to install.
<andreasdr>
Needed to deinstall radeongfx now
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<andreasdr>
Yarrrr. FileZilla landed in Haikuports and qPutty. I love it.
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<BrunoSpr>
Begasus... there is a problem when installing TeXstudio with HaikuDepot... The window for installing additional dependencies for it is not visible at install. It is behind the HaikuDepot Window... So user dont know and wait...
<Begasus>
BrunoSpr, did an update and on 64bit this week with the new TeXstudio, after reboot things worked out fine here
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<Begasus>
On the count for HaikuDepot, I guess that goes the same when installing LO the first time, it doesn't show all the things being installed in the background (link Qt ...)?
<Begasus>
Hence I always use "pkgman"
<BrunoSpr>
Begasus yes this is what I mean
<BrunoSpr>
ah ok makes sense
<Begasus>
you can see what's being installed and follow the progress
<BrunoSpr>
better to use the notifications window for it
<Begasus>
humdinger added something for that in the latest PR merge, but it's not good to revbump texlive for that
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<BrunoSpr>
yes for me it is ok, but not for a common user... The window should be in front or at the side of the deskbar to make it visible
<Begasus>
it's one downside we have to live with atm :)
<BrunoSpr>
yes I know... better to wait for next TeXlive update for this
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<Begasus>
aside from that things seem to be running fine here
<bbjimmy>
Web+ just took the system down, I couldn't read the debug window because I moved the mouse and it eraced the most relavent info.
<BrunoSpr>
If it is known no problem
<Begasus>
it's known, on a future bump we'll make sure something pops up :)
<bbjimmy>
:(
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<BrunoSpr>
Begasus... great I am sure we get there... Would be nice we had all downloaded pictures from screenshoot arranged left or right of the desktop to not be behind the windows as well...
<BrunoSpr>
or save the pictures to another workscreen if that is possible?
<Begasus>
BrunoSpr, not sure what you mean by that
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<BrunoSpr>
I save the screenshoots to Desktop
<BrunoSpr>
Also files saved to desktop are not arranged
<BrunoSpr>
but this not a real problem
<Begasus>
I like a clean Desktop, so only things I put there are on it, screenshots are mostly saved in ~ (default)
<Begasus>
I don't like the idea of sorting icons on the Desktop by name
<BrunoSpr>
Begasus, yes I should change my behaviour
<BrunoSpr>
I will create a folder for my screenshoots then..
<Begasus>
Given the ammount of screenshots I take my Desktop would be filled with them ;)
<BrunoSpr>
Screenshoots I take will be forgotten by time..
<Begasus>
The ones that matter are stored online :)
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<BrunoSpr>
ah ok thx
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<Begasus>
giving up on cutter for now (again), doesn't seem to find the installed rizin libraries and using bundled one resolves into other unneeded downloads
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