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<airlied> bnieuwenhuizen: are the changes to delay the internal bo va updtes in main or in an MR?
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<airlied> bnieuwenhuizen: ah found 18032
<airlied> bnieuwenhuizen: oh you do a full stall interesting
<airlied> jekstrand: would that be bad for nvk plans? ^
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<jekstrand> airlied: Define "internal BO"
<jekstrand> airlied: If you mean driver-managed stuff, full stall is fine.
<jekstrand> We have very few of them and they don't change often.
<airlied> jekstrand: yeah for those attached to preamble type ones
<airlied> that have lifetimes different to a vulkan object
<jekstrand> airlied: Full stall should be fine. Sampler table will grow at most once. Image table at most 10 times ever. SLM maybe more but should still hit steady state pretty quick.
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<mareko> ajax: do you think it's the right time to drop DRI2 from frontends/dri? quite honestly it's hard to say which piece of code belongs to DRI2 or DRI3
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<bnieuwenhuizen> airlied: I was lazy and I thought it would be very uncommon to have that happen significantly
<bnieuwenhuizen> could always do a fence per queue
<bnieuwenhuizen> scratch is IIRC the only thing that get resized
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<sarahwalker> danvet, airlied: Last week I sent out an RFC for the PowerVR DRM driver. I forgot to add you both to the email and just wanted to check if you'd seen it and had a chance to have a look? I'd appreciate your feedback.
<danvet> sarahwalker, I'm trying to crawl out of a terrible email backlog hole
<danvet> it's somewhere on my list
<sarahwalker> no worries, thanks
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<danvet> sarahwalker, I think the primary concern for the initial review needs to be the uapi and whether it makes sense
<danvet> that probably needs mesa folks more than drm folks
<danvet> I'd say only after that should we look more into code polish stuff and the kernel implementation
<danvet> at least as a general rule for new accel drivers (with kms the uapi question is solved, so we can go directly to kernel code review)
<danvet> sarahwalker, iow to make sure this isn't stuck unduly, pls make sure that conversation is happening
<danvet> afaik you/img have contacts, but I can help out if needed
<danvet> contacts with mesa folks
<frankbinns> danvet: thanks for the feedback. i'll ping a few people on our draft Mesa MR adding support for our new DRM driver
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<frankbinns> if you do get a chance to look though, that would be great
<frankbinns> i'm sure you've seen quite a few of these graphics driver uAPIs go by :)
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<dolphin> airlied, danvet: sent the first drm-intel-gt-next PR out, note that it's missing a couple topmost commits of drm-intel-gt-next as there is at least one fixup needed
<dolphin> but those will be included in next PR
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<DemiMarie> Is the situation with GPU pass-through likely to improve?
<dolphin> DemiMarie: what's wrong with GPU pass-through?
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<DemiMarie> dolphin: it often does not work reliably
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<dolphin> for dGPUs it very much should
<DemiMarie> all dGPUs?
<DemiMarie> and what about iGPUs?
<dolphin> Well, that's a very involved question, but it should work for dGPUs
<dolphin> there are a few reasons why there might be a bug that it works on bare metal but not in vm, but those are rare
<dolphin> for iGPUs it's an even more loaded question, they usually have a side-channel to the memory so it's much more unlikely that there are hiccups
<DemiMarie> you mean likely?
<dolphin> yeah, my bad
<dolphin> to the extent that if a given SKU has not been validated to work, don't assume it would
<DemiMarie> okay
<DemiMarie> Are the cases where it does not work bugs in the GPU driver, or are some of then unfixable?
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<dolphin> DemiMarie: for dGPU they should be fixable, if the IOMMU unit is working properly
<dolphin> for iGPU it may be unfixable if there is no SW workaround found
<DemiMarie> dolphin: is this because the driver needs to use physical addresses?
<dolphin> nope, it's because the iGPU view of memory and IOMMU view fall out of sync
<DemiMarie> Also, what do you mean by “side-channel”?
<DemiMarie> Are you saying that the iGPU is not behind an IOMMU?
<dolphin> well, the iGPUs don't use regular PCIe transactions to access system memory
<dolphin> yeah
<DemiMarie> How is that observable to software?
<dolphin> it is behind IOMMU unit that tries to mirror the main IOMMU (simplified)
<DemiMarie> but does not always work?
<dolphin> yeah, there are weird timing corner cases often, so for iGPU I would only trust it to work on validated SKUs
<DemiMarie> what if the IOMMU mappings are set up statically by the VMM, and never changed?
<DemiMarie> also, does this apply to SR-IOV virtual functions?
<dolphin> Sorry have to jump to meeting ->
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<dolphin> SR-IOV would mean dGPU and should again work
<DemiMarie> dolphin: Intel released SR-IOV support for some iGPUs
<dolphin> Nope, it's called GVT-g, it's mediated stuff
<qyliss> are the Xe ones still GVT-g?
<qyliss> I thought they gave up on GVT-g and started doing SR-IOV
<DemiMarie> qyliss is correct
<qyliss> IIRC gen 9 was the last with GVT-g
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<jenatali> I wish more people would use the "add to review" button on GitLab. The email spam from lots of individual comments gets old :(
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<karolherbst> ehh... is this just broken or is there a nice way to compile as user but install as root with ninja?
<emersion> ninja -C build/; sudo ninja -C build/ install
<emersion> ?
<ishitatsuyuki> karolherbst: meson will attempt to elevate via polkit if you just run ninja install
<emersion> ah, that's better
<karolherbst> ishitatsuyuki: not via ssh
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<ishitatsuyuki> ay, right
<ishitatsuyuki> I think sudo ninja install is also well supported though
<karolherbst> though maybe I can figure out how to make that work via ssh..
<karolherbst> yeah.. no
<ishitatsuyuki> what's the problem?
<karolherbst> got permission issues
<ishitatsuyuki> with sudo??
<karolherbst> Cleaning... 4 files.
<karolherbst> [1/1625] Compiling C object src/c11/impl/libmesa_util_c11.a.p/time.c.o
<karolherbst> ninja: build stopped: Error writing to deps log: Permission denied.
<karolherbst> no, when compiling
<karolherbst> now I add a chown to fix it up, but...
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<MrCooper> jenatali: I feel the opposite way, since the review feature currently breaks the threading of e-mail notifications
<ishitatsuyuki> I faced that yeah
<karolherbst> ahh.. it indeed asks via polkit for a pw
<karolherbst> "Error executing command as another user: Not authorized" .. heh
<MrCooper> IME that tends to result in lots of prompts via SSH though
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<karolherbst> yeah.. that as well
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<karolherbst> ishitatsuyuki: ahh.. that might help, let's see...
<karolherbst> yep, that works
<ishitatsuyuki> at this point gaining user level code execution is basically an instant elevation to super user code execution now, not sure what I should do but I live on the dangerous side ;)
<ishitatsuyuki> (on my system)
<karolherbst> yeah well.. it's a devel system
<karolherbst> the only thing which I might consider "security relevant" is my steam account :D
<ishitatsuyuki> haha
<karolherbst> and you get to that without root anyway
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<jenatali> MrCooper: I guess that's fair. Too bad there's not a solution for both problems :(
<MrCooper> I guess a per-user setting could work in theory
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<eric_engestrom> zmike: as a note for next time, it's really helpful if you `git cherry-pick` with `-x` when you push stuff to staging, it saves release maintainers from having to go look for the commit ;)
<zmike> eric_engestrom: oh huh, never used that before
<zmike> will keep in mind
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<karolherbst> eric_engestrom: maybe it makes sense to CI on that?
<karolherbst> uhh.. I guess sometimes we will add non cherry picked commits :(
<eric_engestrom> karolherbst: this is for when people push directly, so no ci involved (:
<karolherbst> could add a warning as a comment
<karolherbst> ahh.. :(
<karolherbst> maybe it's time to disallow direct pushes? :D
<eric_engestrom> for staging branches it's necessary, release maintainers need to be able to shuffle commits around when testing before a release
<karolherbst> mhhh
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<eric_engestrom> but traditionally only the release maintainers touched that, others would ping a RM if they wanted something
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<eric_engestrom> there's no enforcement of that at the gitlab level though
<karolherbst> could have pre push hooks where you can use a variable to overwrite the check.. but at this point it becomes annoying to maintain :D
<eric_engestrom> those need to be manually enabled by each dev on their machines though, so it won't be very effective
<karolherbst> ahh.. right
<eric_engestrom> I feel like we're kinda trying to find a tech solution to a social problem: just talk to a release maintainer before touching the release branches :P
<karolherbst> that's for sure
<zmike> I've been helping with backports for the past couple releases after talking to dcbaker, I didn't realize the process had changed
<karolherbst> would just be nice if we could prevent such mistakes though, but also not terrible if we can't
<dcbaker> zmike: eric_engestrom sorry I’ve been awol all week, I’ve been neck deep in broken networks :(
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<zmike> we miss you
<eric_engestrom> zmike: that's nice, thanks! FYI this isn't new, we've always used `-x` but also we usually use `bin/pick-ui.py` to manage commits (this allows tracking what's been accepted for backport, not yet, de-nominated, backported without a tag requesting it) which does this automatically
<zmike> huh
<eric_engestrom> (also, I think we still don't have any documentation about using this tool, we should really do that)
<dcbaker> we have some metadata that's written to .pick_status.json in the stable branches
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<Ristovski> tbh theres tons of missing docs, not just about tooling D:
<Ristovski> also a nice thing would be some sort of readme that tells you who to go bother about a specific thing :D (though that could get convoluted given a lot of peeps work on several things at once, but still)
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<MrCooper> there is CODEOWNERS
<Ristovski> I guess what I had in mind would be more akin to "EXPERTS" (for a lack of a better name)
<zmike> everyone in this channel is an expert
<Ristovski> exactly, its just not clear _for what_ :P
<Wally> MrCooper: Isnt CODEOWNERS a bit incomplete?
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<karolherbst> airlied: your 27f46465c7a408d3406886ed230b7e35dc693247 breaks nv50, but I honestly don't see how :/
<emersion> i find it very clear that zmike is an expert at shitposting
<karolherbst> who isn't
<emersion> consider his blog, by that standard, everybody else is a middle school student
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<karolherbst> airlied: nvm.. I think I found it
<karolherbst> uhh wow will this be annoying to fix
<karolherbst> so we managed a code heap, but used the pipe enums to index our shaders... which doens't work if you assume there are three stages, but index via the enums.. (and also used hard coded numbers to set up binding points instead of enum values)
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<cheako> I just learned that XDC this oct is local. If anyone has questions, like about navigating the light rail I could probably help.
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<DemiMarie> Anyone here experts on X11 and the ICCCM?
<emersion> this would be a question for #xorg-devel
<DemiMarie> …which is completely dead, hence me asking somewhere else
<emersion> not a good excuse for asking off-topic questions ;)
<cheako> That's getting into the territory of asking if it's ok to ask a question. Obviously, if two communities should be combined into one that is a topic needing to be discussed in the more active of the two.
<DemiMarie> emersion: pinged you from #xorg-devel
<Lynne> airlied: last vulkan headers update broke your vulkan video patchset more than what I could rebase
<Lynne> I've put up what I've used so far here - https://files.lynne.ee/radv_vkvideo.zip
<Lynne> maybe you could update them again? header changes were quite a lot, and there were a few api changes too
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<airlied> Lynne: will throw a rebase today
<airlied> zmike: grr, when you import headers please import all of them :-P
<airlied> zmike: please ack 18237 :-)
<zmike> whoops
* airlied is kinda glad I haven't landed any code depending on these, the churn is nuts
<Wally> DemiMarie: The x.org page regarding irc has a link to this page: https://dontasktoask.com/, perhaps you could read it in your spare time?
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<eric_engestrom> zmike, airlied: `bin/khronos-update.py vulkan` to the rescue :P
<zmike> TIL
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<airlied> Lynne: pushed out a rebased, not tested it
<airlied> danvet: got an opinion on the expand device numbers? seems reasonable, but in light of other discussions not sure if want to rush it
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<danvet> airlied, link?
* danvet so terribly behind on dri-devel
<karolherbst> airlied: that drm node device number thing? If so, chromium is busted in this regard anyway afaik
<danvet> karolherbst, the "they only open renderD0 without checking" thing?
<karolherbst> more or less
<karolherbst> seems to be more broken though
<danvet> or was it some compositor that just blindly opens card0
<karolherbst> danvet: no, it's chromium
<karolherbst> we had a user chimin in where the issue was, that sometimes nouveau bound to card0 and i915 to card1 and chromium totally thought that using card0 is a solid idea, but after unloading nouveau, it just failed to do hw accell anyway :D
<karolherbst> so yeah.. maybe it's a simple and dumb "only use card0" thing?
<karolherbst> dunno
<karolherbst> airlied: I like this "This approach will not break existing user-space AFAIK." bit, what if userspace checkst against > 128 to identify render nodes :P
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<airlied> yeah userspace can do some dumb stuff :-P
<karolherbst> I am sure we need new device nodes for that sort of changes and always have to assign random numbers
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<danvet> karolherbst, I think we can fairly savely assume that if you have more than 64 devices
<danvet> you can fix your userspace
<danvet> "no regression" only ever holds for a specific machine
<danvet> if you take an image from a 20year old box and move it to a new one, you don't get to pull the "no regressions" card
<karolherbst> yeah... I guess so :P
<karolherbst> it's already broken anyway
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<jenatali> idr: Would you be able to take a look at !18217? Pinging here since it seems like GitLab emails might be having some trouble...
* idr looks...
<Lynne> airlied: that was quick, thanks, I'll give them a test
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<Wally> This is probably a stupid question but do ttys require the availability of a fbdev driver or can they work with a kms implementation that does not expose fbdev?
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<karolherbst> anholt: are you aware of anything "strange" for gl 3.3 grade hardware using ttn? I have this weird issue, that apparently there is a regression in nv50 with drawn borders in mutter since switching over to nir. But if I flip the switch to use TGSI instead, it's even worse :(
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<jenatali> ajax: Is your "fine with me" on !18217 an a-b? or did you want to add an r-b? Otherwise I think it's good to land
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<anholt> karolherbst: nope. but also, ttn?
<anholt> did you mean ntt?
<karolherbst> ehh, yeah, I meant ntt
<karolherbst> not really sure what's going on though as the GPU doesn't seem to throw any errors
<anholt> there's still my ntt-for-nouveau fixes branch at https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/15932/commits but I wouldn't expect mutter to hit any of that
<karolherbst> yeah... would be strange
<karolherbst> probably some kind of lowering got lost or something...
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