ChanServ changed the topic of #dri-devel to: <ajax> nothing involved with X should ever be unable to find a bar
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<treasuryx> <treasuryx> so it's quite simple for Bitcoin you generate random numbers and ask for collision from in format own generated number with blocks nodes in the Blockchain to see if servers rng did good job, that means only if collision is detected you need a new number, otherwise the occupancy does never matter. the rng technically would never fail if they were cheating like you in life, if
<treasuryx> someday soon your balls will <treasuryx> be removed however. so you are pushing number of generated hashes to comparison through multibank accesses the single threaded mode already accommodates block size length of this you can not push to several blocks at the same time that way you would cause your own numbers to collide and .... validating yourself is not very intelligent thing to do, as
<treasuryx> they were as <treasuryx> big as trash as you however. But you have to collect the response all the time, it's rpc but not internet in cpuminer so it is the bottleneck, can be recoded however number of threads in too aggressive modes, would cause random runaheads and you'd have no way of telling what to discard, remember that you are butchers not programmers you are alien butcher staff.
<treasuryx> you give work to yourself where as you <treasuryx> never used rng in the first place so your numbers do not collide anyways. so even Bitcoin miner does not take advantage of multiple threads it's too simple model for it. vulkan compute shaders hence, pointless.
<Ermine> dwfreed: requesting banhammer
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<DavidHeidelberg> eric_engestrom: I could reproduce the same failure 2 times in my MR, but not in the different previous MRs pipelines, now it passed, but I'm afraid something is wrong, can you check it's ok? https://mesa.pages.freedesktop.org/-/mesa/-/jobs/58794048/artifacts/results/summary/results/trace@broadcom-rpi4@behdad-glyphy@glyphy-v2.trace.html
<DavidHeidelberg> it's not standard flake, because the screenshot was identical each time and it's pretty non-flake specific
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<luc> I'd appreciate if someone could shed light on the throttle thing under X11/mesa? When exactly is it needed? https://elixir.bootlin.com/mesa/latest/source/src/gallium/frontends/dri/dri_drawable.c#L529
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<MrCooper> luc: it limits how many frames the CPU can run ahead of the GPU
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<luc> MrCooper: if vblank is enabled, does it imply to throttling?
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<MrCooper> not directly
<MrCooper> with the same number of colour buffers in the rotation, sync-to-vblank makes the underlying issue worse, since it results in higher input→output latency
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<luc> MrCooper: IIUC, it means even if vblank is enabled, we still have to do throttling for lower latency, doesn't it?
<MrCooper> right
<luc> thanks a lot
<MrCooper> no worries
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<sima> pinchartl, did you look at the bridge hotplug proposal already?
<sima> well especially the hotunplug part ...
<pinchartl> sima: notyet. I suppose I should ? :-)
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<pinchartl> sima: what's your opinion on making connectors more dynamic, and allowing them to be created and removed at runtime ?
<emersion> they already are
<emersion> for DP-MST
<pinchartl> indeed
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<sima> pinchartl, yeah that's my main take on this too, we should tie bridge hotplug a lot more to the connector
<sima> since hotplug for that is already solved
<sima> but it means that "who creates the connector" becomes even more fun for bridges ...
<pinchartl> if we want bridges to become hot-pluggable resources, we need a way to signal bridges being removed, and we need drivers to react to that correctly
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<pinchartl> we may need a complete redesign of the bridge attach/detach API
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<mripard> plus all the use after free issues I'm sure it would entail :)
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<pinchartl> mripard: yes, those come as an added bonus of course
<pinchartl> you get them for free
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<sima> pinchartl, yeah I think I'll just put that part as an open into my mail
<sima> the patch set has a hotplug bridge to absorb some of the fun, but I think that needs to be lifted into shared code or it wont work all that well
<sima> I'll focus more on the lifetime/locking fun
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<pinchartl> the "hotplug bridge" seems a bit of a hack :-S
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<karolherbst> mareko: I'm hitting the assert you added in 0e546fb6833dd178bb9f7889c82ae38e14dd868d sometimes when calling into clear_buffer
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<karolherbst> gfxstrand: up for a quick review? https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/29230
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<gfxstrand> karolherbst: done
<karolherbst> thanks!
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<DavidHeidelberg> karolherbst: heya! I think about the freedreno+rusticl could be merged (at least for LLM it works), but I would maybe guard it somehow to prevent people accidentally using it ?
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<DavidHeidelberg> lumag: what do you think ^ ?
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<karolherbst> DavidHeidelberg: I mean.. there is still the env variable
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<karolherbst> soo... nobody will use it unless they really want to anyway
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<DavidHeidelberg> right :)
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<JoshuaAshton> pinchartl, sima: FWIW, there are still weird issues with unavoidable EINVALs with MST hotplugging due to connectors being removed/added kernel side. It broke a lot of userspace assumptions.
<emersion> i think we fixed these?
<JoshuaAshton> Link?
<JoshuaAshton> I remember seeing those in Gamescope still with our dock that transitions from SST to MST when > 1 connector, definitely hit an EINVAL at some point there occasionally
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<JoshuaAshton> I am thinking about where you get a New Device event thing from polling, then go to set up the connector, query it, then by the time you want to use it it's been removed
<emersion> t should be in the unregistered state
<emersion> iit*
<emersion> hm
<emersion> maybe that only happens when the connector has been enabled?
<emersion> would need to check the kernel source again
<JoshuaAshton> It's very difficult to see in like typical cable plug scenarios, but a Dock initializing as SST then doing a MST transition very shortly after triggers it pretty reliably fwir
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<JoshuaAshton> You could probably reproduce it synthetically in your app by just adding a big sleep after you query the connectors and unplugging the cable in that time
<JoshuaAshton> (on an MST dock)
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<sima> JoshuaAshton, so as long as you don't include the connector, you shouldn't get EINVAL due to hotunplug
<sima> at least we've tried to fix all these
<sima> if you do include it, it's kinda unavoidable by design, because userspace doesn't hold a connector reference
<JoshuaAshton> yeah
<sima> so between you getting the connector stuff and then trying a modeset it might be gone again
<sima> if you want to fix that, we could add userspace refcounting
<sima> like a special GETCONNECTOR ioctl flag that opens a reference
<sima> and you need to promise to close that with some new ioctl again
<JoshuaAshton> Sounds good to me -- but also migggghtttt be abusable?
<JoshuaAshton> I guess there is nothing stopping a userspace from being naughty and leaking connectors kernel side then
<sima> you'd still get an EINVAL though if it's gone, but at least there's a guarantee that the connector id won't be reused by something else
<sima> JoshuaAshton, you need to physically replug to actually leak anything
<JoshuaAshton> Sure
<sima> and we'd drop the refcount on close(drmfd)
<JoshuaAshton> ye
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<sima> so it's kinda meh
<sima> but also, it's not really giving you the "no EINVAL" guarantee, since if the thing is gone it's kinda hard to modeset on it
<sima> I guess we could allow that, but might be somewhat funky and timeout prone ...
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<sima> (only on these special refcounted drm connectors)
<emersion> another way would be a "i've seen this hotplug event" kind of IOCTL from userspace
<JoshuaAshton> Yeah, makes sense when you can't modeset on it anyway really
<sima> JoshuaAshton, so anyway, if it's a big issue we can certainly adjust the uapi
<emersion> or, if you just want a workaround, wat 30s and then delete the connector
<emersion> wait*
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<sima> but kinda another point in making hotpluggable bridges work like dp mst connectors, defo don't want to flavours of all these sharp uapi corners
<sima> emersion, there's kinda the hotplug sequence counter for that
<emersion> yea
<sima> I guess we could pass that sequence counter in as part of the atomic commit
<emersion> not exposed to userspace
<sima> and if they mismatch, give you a special errno
<emersion> … maybe
<sima> well would be a good reason to do that
<sima> but fundamentally there's just a race there
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<sima> and I think the current uapi that guarantees (or well tries to, we still find bugs&corners) that you wont get a hotunplug EINVAL as long as you don't include connector properties in your atomic commit is probably the best we can do
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<emersion> the timer workaround thing would solve it
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<emersion> it's not _great_, but we've been doing that for Wayland globals (which are Hard to fix for reasons) and it works very well
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<sima> emersion, the timer would need to be on the connector status change to unplugged itself
<sima> which kinda opens a can of worms if we do this across all drivers
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<emersion> not sure i understand
<sima> since delaying the connector deletion only delays reallocating the kms id of that connector
<sima> you still get EINVAL the moment it's unplugged (if it's included in a modeset/atomic ioctl call)
<emersion> hm yeah
<sima> so also a bit a question of what's the real issue, just connector id confusion, or also the EINVAL
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<sima> emersion, hence why I'm leaning towards exposing the hotplug seqno and passing that as an argument to atomic and then failing with a special E_OUT_OF_DATE errno or so
<emersion> yeah that sounds better
<sima> and then just leaving it to userspace how it wants to recover
<sima> EIDRM sounds neat for this :-)
<emersion> it could generalize to other state that needs sync as well
<sima> yeah could do it in general for IMMUTABLE properties that the kernel sets
<sima> if the value you supply doens't match you get the special errno back
<sima> but the hotplug seqno should cover it all pretty well, including the connector id confusion case
<emersion> well
<emersion> connector confusion would happen anyways
<emersion> you can GETCONNECTOR and then get the wrong thing back
<sima> well would need it there too
<sima> hm the epoch counter is per connector
<emersion> but that wouldn't generalize
<emersion> GETPROPERTY etc
<emersion> eh
<sima> so you actually cannot use that to avoid confusion, we'd need to make the epoch counter at least device global
<emersion> i think the epoch counter is per-connector for a good reason?
<emersion> hm
<emersion> i think to detect when a connector changed?
<sima> yeah it needs to be per-connector
<sima> but we'd need a global timeline
<emersion> so would need a new but similar thing
<emersion> right
<sima> so that when a connector is unplugged and a new one is replugged, it has a higher epoch counter
<sima> well it's not yet exposed, so doesn't matter
<emersion> right
<emersion> indeed
<sima> and even if it is, it would just mean the epoch increments a bit faster, when it does
<sima> which userspace already needs to cope with anyway
<emersion> yea
<sima> emersion, so thinking some more for the GET* one, if you just wrap it in GETPROP calls for the epoch, that should be enough?
<sima> like you get the connector id from the uevent, so you can just go right ahead and grab the epoch of that
<sima> and then do whatever you feel like, and then recheck the epoch
<sima> so we'd also need to make sure that we send out the connector id everywhere
<emersion> that sounds a bit cumbersome for userspace i must admit
<emersion> do a bunch of things, then check the epoch, f it changed rollback all these things…
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<emersion> would be nicer to have -ETRYAGAIN
<emersion> a "ACK epoch" mechanism would allow for that
<sima> uh there's still a lot of places which don't even send out the connector id :-/
<emersion> yeah, and we can't send the connector ID always
<emersion> when you unplug a dock there might be 2 connectors involved
<sima> well I mean a lot of places that could but don't
<sima> emersion, well those could just send 2 events
<emersion> i tried to fix at least some of them
<emersion> sima, amdgpu groups these
<emersion> well, it's nicer to have a single uevent for a single logical change
<emersion> user-space only needs to rescan once
<sima> well most should go out through dp mst helpers, which atm just batches them because it doesn't bother
<emersion> i reall thought i fixed that…
<sima> wouldn't be too hard to keep track of the impacted connector, and if there's more than one, clear that and send the big event
<emersion> yeah i implemented something like this
<sima> emersion, I think on the big driver the usual connector events are fixed, but not dp mst stuff
<sima> I think at least, from a few quick greps
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<emersion> hm i fixed drivers but not DP-MST it seems
<sima> yeah, there's also a pile more
<sima> git grep is 48 vs 19 ...
<ernstp> so intel-vulkan requires llvmspirvlib now?
<airlied> yeah to buuild
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<ernstp> been trying to maintain a mesa ppa with ubuntu 20.04 (focal) support but I think I have to drop that now
<ernstp> well, there has to come a time for that
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<kisak> ernstp: fwiw, spirv-llvm-translator 15-18 are on the build farm focal i386 whitelist. You can unstuck yourself https://launchpad.net/~kisak/+archive/ubuntu/kisak-mesa/+sourcepub/15775693/+listing-archive-extra
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<ernstp> hi kisak! looked like spirv-llvm-translator wanted gcc-13 though? and got some test failures when building with gcc-9 instead..
<ernstp> was trying with -16 though. perhaps -15 would work better...
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<pinchartl> emersion: sima: I like the seqno idea
<pinchartl> regarding reuse of the connector id, I wonder if we could avoid reusing ids. that won't work if we consider transient objects like frame buffers, but for objects that have a longer life span, could we just increase the id ?
<pinchartl> that brings other issues obviously
<pinchartl> we'll have a wraparound at some point
<pinchartl> but maybe we don't need to care about >2G plugs/unplugs ?
<kisak> spirv-llvm-translator-## should be the same number as the llvm build you're using with mesa.
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<emersion> imho warparound is fine
<emersion> hm
<emersion> would need to make sure to skip already allocated IDs though
<pinchartl> that may lead to log(n) operations
<pinchartl> sorry, O(n)
<pinchartl> too late to type
<pinchartl> or think :)
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<DemiMarie> not if one uses a range tracking data structure that makes this fast
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