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<airlied>
Company: I'd probably go with lavapipe, but the api overheads is likely dwarfed by sw rendering backends anyways
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<alyssa>
anyone object to adding a nir_if::cold flag?
<alyssa>
to model `if (unlikely(...)) {}`
<alyssa>
my current use case is tweaking the nir_opt_preamble cost model for my cold emulation paths
<alyssa>
but one can imagine more use cases
<alyssa>
or perhaps it could be a nir_selection_control
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<Company>
airlied: I was mostly thinking about feature completeness - because first people advertised against lavapipe as it was still incomplete, then llvmpipe was missing damage regions, so no idea what the current state is
<airlied>
Company: no idea, guess if one works better pick it for now
<Company>
seems llvmpipe doesn't advertise dmabufs but lavapipe does
<Company>
so I guess lavapipe wins
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<permudaviews>
actually this yesterdays idea only complicated things, as it's cryptoidea of indexes, better demo realization is to implement compressed ir + intrinsic for a compilation which designs new encoder to arbitrary precision (the other way around compared to yesterdays). and for linking and runtime there is also - intrinsic. so the content held inside the hash would normally go to multiple
<permudaviews>
computer words without compression, however decoding at that level is never done as it makes zero sense without elimination values which shrink things back unless theres bug to decode groups of magic values. But those magic values are complex to produce as 1024*1024*3 roughly is decimal range digit values for one alu bank. I hate to be a killer, but my tech is too strong for bunch of
<permudaviews>
jewish abusers active on this channel, to stalk and terror arian people everwyhere again and again, and claim that gas chamber isn't their place to be at. It is a decent primarly jewish and other semites bullshit show here on irc, that no normal real person can keep up with. So i part for good from such environment.
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<DemiMarie>
Company: at least Qt and Iced have their own dedicated software renderers
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<cmarcelo>
alyssa: maybe NIR selection control if that becomes a bitmask?
<alyssa>
cmarcelo: yeah, maybe?
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<cmarcelo>
alyssa: semi-related (OpExpectKHR) ~> http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/KhronosGroup/SPIRV-Registry/blob/main/extensions/KHR/SPV_KHR_expect_assume.html if we have a flag in nir selection control, we can identify identify expect(false) etc.
<cmarcelo>
I mean, expect(my condition, false)
<alyssa>
yeah
<cmarcelo>
which is what unlikely() in highlevel languages would produce
<cmarcelo>
right now we just ignore/pass-through. but if we encoded the expect somehow, have a nir "expect" thing that wraps a value and a constant, we could have a pass to "use it or drop it".
<alyssa>
sounds good yeah
<cmarcelo>
another place we would like to use this is range analysis. however, we don't know how common is to generators produce this.
<alyssa>
even in backend it can be useful
<cmarcelo>
back to original: I can't dig now why selection control is not a flag set instead of an enum, but seems a reasonable move.
<alyssa>
on most ISAs, it should be possible to sink a cold block to get it out of the icache
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* cmarcelo
*nods*
<alyssa>
(I don't know of any prior art for this on AGX but literally when has that ever stopped me lmao)
<Company>
DemiMarie: I hope it's worth the effort when they could just use llvmpipe instead
<DemiMarie>
Company: because llvmpipe is much slower, so it is worth it for them
<DemiMarie>
Qt in particular is used on embedded systems that might well have a tiny CPU and no GPU at all
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<Company>
that's a limited featureset I guess
<DemiMarie>
Also there are surprisingly many cases (not just VMs) where GPU drivers are broken
<Company>
the fix in those cases is to fix the drivers, not add workarounds everywhere
<DemiMarie>
I will let the developers of those projects make the decision.
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<marc2377>
It's so cool to see so many names here I'm familiar with from years of browsing linux kernel sources, patches, packages and such
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<Lynne>
its nice to see radv generating exactly the same shader binary for different glslang optimizations
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<forwardleap>
Your terrorists do not qualify to the top million programmers in the world. Yet you have enough arrogancy to commit tyranny. Go grab a burger DemiMarie try not to practice your spew publicly, there is many burgers waiting for you jewish pigonoid. https://people.engr.tamu.edu/djimenez/ut/utsa/cs3343/lecture25.html network is full of those implementations, too many to get a quick
<forwardleap>
enthusiasting kickoff, hashed alus are generated with such code modified a little. You have had every lecture in united states education system, it's likely you did understood nothing about them, so go on and fart and code the world to dissapearance. I do not even care, i fire bullets at you if you come again my way, and this time in cambodia i take a knife and scalpel and stitch strings
<forwardleap>
with me, if you humiliate and stalk and terror me there again, i and we chop your dicks off, and put it to your own mouth. Mark my words. I might need to go again, cause indrek bullshit man wasted all the money borrowed, so that hotel belongs to my dad and me now. But the parasites like finnish abuse whores have to be kicked out from that country before as i do not negoatiate with those
<forwardleap>
on terms.
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<zamundaaa[m]>
<DemiMarie> "Company: because llvmpipe is..." <- Actually if you have multiple cores and only simple shaders, llvmpipe is a lot faster than QPainter, because QPainter is single threaded
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<zamundaaa[m]>
It's one of the reasons why we try to use llvmpipe in KWin nowadays, rather than going for QPainter rendering when no hardware accelerated OpenGL contexts are available (or usable)
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<Company>
zamundaaa[m]: I would expect kwin to benefit most from llvmpipe for its usecase, which is mainly large blits
<Company>
zamundaaa[m]: though I'd also expect that you can easily multithread that in QPainter
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<zamundaaa[m]>
Company: it should indeed not be that difficult, but it's not effort anyone has been willing to put in
<Company>
what I did in GTK is optimize our fallback format conversion blit and mipmap functions to spawn threads and then have each thread convert a row and that was a huge speedup, even in the case where it's basically just memcpy
<zamundaaa[m]>
Largely because of reason number two for choosing llvmpipe: it supports all the OpenGL effects, like blur
<Company>
I did that mainly to enable Loupe to load large images (30k x 50k)
<Company>
it's downscaled to 600x1k or so because it's scaled to fit
<Company>
so I can use mipmap level 5, and if I only upload that, it's a lot faster
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<Company>
but then I need to compute mipmap level 5 on the CPU by averaging 32x32 blocks of pixels
<Company>
and that was a massive speedup, I got it to go as fast as my RAM can transmit the data
<Company>
which is something like 50GB/s - but a single thread could only do like 5GB/s or so
<Company>
at which point I also used it for memcpys
<Company>
to copy stuff from shm buffers into Vulkan/GL buffers for example
<Company>
actually, that is something compositors could benefit from - though I guess you use glTexImage() for wl_shm buffers and then it's Mesa's job?
<MrCooper>
compositors could offload that to a separate thread though, glTexImage can't read data after it returns
<MrCooper>
zamundaaa[m]: coincidentally, mutter/gnome-shell disables effects if it detects software rendering, because they tend to be slow even with llvmpipe
<jadahl>
animations are disabled, at least
<zamundaaa[m]>
We do disable some by default as well (namely blur), but it sucks if you need to take screenshots
<Company>
the problem with llvmpipe is that it can be really slow and it can be really fast
<Company>
my benchmark runs with 200fps on my desktop and with <10fps on my rpi
<zamundaaa[m]>
As people love to use VMs to review new releases, being able to have pretty screenshots is pretty important to us
<Company>
because my desktop has 16 cores and llvmpipe benefits from that a lot
<Company>
and people tend to not give VMs all of their cores, so you can quickly run into perf issues I guess
<jadahl>
zamundaaa[m]: in gnome we have runtime knobs people can poke at to get back things we turn off when on llvmpipe
<jadahl>
to get a more "real" behaviour
<Company>
might be worth having some benchmark on first start to see how fast llvmpipe goes and toggle based on that
<zamundaaa[m]>
Yeah you can just go into effects settings and turn blur back on in Plasma as well
<Company>
or to throw up some "your computer seems slows, do you want to disable stuff?" warning
<jadahl>
zamundaaa[m]: I guess that is good enough, if you know about it :)
<Company>
so people don't think Gnome/KDE suck when their VM is misconfigured
<Company>
(shoutout to the flatpak people for shipping asahi without drivers for ages)
<zamundaaa[m]>
jadahl: That "if you know about it" is the annoying part, reviewers generally don't know or don't care enough, so you still see screenshots without blur
<Company>
I would really throw up a notification on first start with llvmpipe these days
<zamundaaa[m]>
Hmm, I wonder if we should have a notification about that when Plasma is used in a VM. Tell people to turn on 3D acceleration for example...
<Company>
GTK would like that, too
<Company>
this can also happen after distro updates
<Company>
when something screwed up the drivers
<Company>
MrCooper: while you're here, I remember 3 things I wanted your opinion on
<Company>
MrCooper: 1. Should GTK pick lavapipe or llvmpipe? Any preference?
<Company>
MrCooper: 2. the recent GTK fix that speeds up llvmpipe - I didn't want to backport that to 4.16 - is that okay with you or would you want that speedup?
<MrCooper>
1. not in particular, happy to defer to airlied there
<Company>
MrCooper: 3. I noticed that lavapipe advertises dmabufs but llvmpipe does not - is that something that llvmpipe should do?
<MrCooper>
2. doesn't seem critical, worst case the old GL renderer can be forced?
<MrCooper>
3. what does "llvmpipe does not" mean exactly?
<MrCooper>
i.e. what's missing?
<Company>
we eglQueryDmabufFormats() or whatever that's called and llvmpipe doesn't seem to return any
<Company>
GTK has a debug var that prints all of the formats, and I noticed it doesn't print any
<Company>
while it did print them for Vulkan with lavapipe
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<MrCooper>
offhand does seem like llvmpipe should return something there if it supports dma-buf
<Company>
GDK_DEBUG=dmabuf LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1 gtk4-widget-factory should print them when playing a video but it doesn't seem to
<Company>
GDK_DEBUG=dmabuf LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1 MESA_VK_DEVICE_SELECT=10005:0 gtk4-widget-factory for the full joy of software rendering
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<Company>
oh
<Company>
GTK's fault
<Company>
the LINEAR special case doesn't print them
* Company
fixes
<MrCooper>
*phew* :)
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<Company>
okay, so: GTK in 4.18 is gonna pick lavapipe now, because everyone thinks Vulkan is cooler than GL
<Company>
4.16 picks llvmpipe
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<MrCooper>
sounds good
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<MrCooper>
anyway, even rubber ducks need to eat sometimes, bbl
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<Company>
MrCooper: oh, as for (2), yes, you can force the GL renderer and unless you do fractional scaling that's gonna work fine
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<zmike>
bbrezillon: seems like maybe the frontend should do this?
<bbrezillon>
zmike: why?
<bbrezillon>
and how?
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<zmike>
let me wake up a little more
<zmike>
again
<bbrezillon>
ah, frontend is the state tracker, not anv
<bbrezillon>
sorry
<bbrezillon>
well, yes, if the frontend can do it for you, why not
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<tzimmermann>
jfalempe, i updated the series for the drm client module
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<MrCooper>
can a GL fragment shader somehow determine how many bits per component the draw buffer has?
<soreau>
yea, just send it a uniform ;)
<MrCooper>
right, I mean without
<glehmann>
no
<soreau>
what if it's 10-10-10-2? the shader still uses traditional vec4's (with 0-1 range)?
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<MrCooper>
yep, fragment shader always operates on one float per component
<MrCooper>
another question is: are those float values rounded to the nearest value in the draw buffer, or to the floor / ceiling?
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<tzimmermann>
sima, mripard, mlankhurst, can we please revert drm-misc-fixes to f9e7ac6e2e99 ("drm/panthor: Don't add write fences to the shared BOs"). someone dump that entire patchset of 31 patches into -misc-fixes. https://patchwork.freedesktop.org/series/139038/ this is NOT acceptable
<sima>
ack
<sima>
and yeah most of that isn't for -fixes indeed
<tzimmermann>
sima, do i have credentials to do that?
<sima>
tzimmermann, I guess you'll also do a reply why this isn't ok and all that?
<sima>
I think so
<sima>
dim push -f
<tzimmermann>
i'll send a note
<tzimmermann>
thanks
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<sima>
if the dim push -f doesn't work you might need to enable force pushes in gitlab temporarily, but as maintainer you can do that
<tzimmermann>
sima, i never tried. i'll let you know how it went
<sima>
need to enable force push there temporarily
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<glehmann>
MrCooper: not 100% clearly defined, round to nearest even is recommended
<sima>
tzimmermann, and maybe disable drm-misc-fixes for developers for now, until there's another patch
<glehmann>
but for example, with rgba8, amd will first rtz convert to fp16, and then round to nearest even
<sima>
otherwise they'll just go ahead and push again
<MrCooper>
glehmann: wow
<sima>
unless you need to rebase anyway, but then I'd still disable developer push while you do all this
<tzimmermann>
sima, worked nicely. thanks a lot
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<sima>
tzimmermann, did you push a rebase? otherwise there's good chances someone will repush the patches again, but if it's a rebase then the force-push protection stops that
<tzimmermann>
sima, not sure. i did a reset to the last good commit and force-pushed that. where should i have rebased?
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<sima>
if it's not a rebase I'd block developer push rights until someone complains (or until you've rolled to -rc2 next monday)
<sima>
tzimmermann, only if someone else pushed more patches on top of the ivpu patches that you wanted to keep
<sima>
it if all was ivpu then no option for a rebase and the reset was the right hting
<tzimmermann>
i'll block dev access for now to prevent this. but the ivpu series has only been there for an hour or so. hopefully no one picked it up yet
<tzimmermann>
mripard, mlankhorst ^ FYI
<sima>
yeah, but better safe than sorry and with gitlab we can now easily prevent people pushing stuff when they shouldn't
<mripard>
tzimmermann: thanks for the notice and dealing with this
<sima>
I guess if you have a fix you can push that and then unblock
<mripard>
it's not the first time the ivpu fixes have been a bit suspicious, but it's never been that bad either :)
<tzimmermann>
mripard, please unblock if someone need to push to -misc-fixes
<mripard>
ack
<sima>
I guess we could also do an mr now, I land it into drm-fixes and then you fast forward and unblock
<sima>
but feels a bit like overkill
<sima>
I'm still around for a bit more than 1h before I head out for dinner at my brother's place, if you do want to do it
<sima>
tzimmermann, ^^
<tzimmermann>
sima, i'll leave it for now
<sima>
ack
<sima>
I'll fast-forward drm-fixes just in case
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<MrCooper>
glehmann: Vulkan 3.10.2 says "Implementations should round to nearest" tough
<glehmann>
should is not must
<MrCooper>
right, as nearest isn't nearest even :)
<glehmann>
I think d3d11 has some weird 0.6ULP requirement, so it's not just Vulkan which is vague
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<MrCooper>
nice stack of turtles there
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<MrCooper>
can of worms might be more like it
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<DemiMarie>
MrCooper: consider yourself lucky you aren't on the browser WebGPU teams.
<MrCooper>
heh
<DemiMarie>
There is a shader fuzzer that found a bunch of vulnerabilities in various compilers.
<oftcseesnot>
nkyeakd please do not hang yourself , the testestosterone you got from is not so bad fucker , you can make it, me i am in troubles homeless bum quasimodo gloria brother can kill me , and lauras crankgangsters! So it's called a position set, if you fix a position of the power you only have 1024 states actually 32 but since the other operand has 32 round robin states is 1024, it's that you
<kisak>
oftcseesnot: that language is not welcome here. Please go away.
<K900>
I mean I know it's a mental health thing but man
<K900>
Please get help
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<mlankhorst>
sima: I can push some fixes to drm-misc-fixes now, don't see any ivpu there?
<sima>
mlankhorst, yeah
<mlankhorst>
error: dst ref refs/heads/drm-misc-fixes receives from more than one src
<sima>
once you've done please enable developer push access again, since with the new patches developers wont be able to accidentally repush the ivpu patches thanks to the force-push prevention
<DavidHeidelberg>
K900: it's a bot, it spam multiple channels like this
<sima>
hm that sounds like a client side set issue
<K900>
DavidHeidelberg: I don't think it's a bot, it's a little too specific
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<mlankhorst>
I've pushed manually
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<sima>
mlankhorst, pls update gitlab settings now
<mattst88>
DavidHeidelberg, K900: incredibly, this is not a bot. this is who we refer to as "joss"
<sima>
K900, it's not a bot, but persistent issue we have to deal with unfortunately
<sima>
mattst88, did you also ping oftc admins?
<K900>
sima: I'm aware, yeah
* sima
forgot the right nick to ping again
<sima>
K900, oops meant DavidHeidelberg
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<DavidHeidelberg>
interesting, I seen spam looking bit like this, even tailored to the discussion of channel in other Matrix/IRC rooms too, but maybe this one is powered by "Human"
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<mlankhorst>
I think I fixed it
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<Ermine>
sima: I guess you need to ping dwfreed
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<MrCooper>
DavidHeidelberg: yep, he's been doing it for many years
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<DavidHeidelberg>
oh, well, kinda unusual hobby, but.. what can we do :D
<vsyrjala>
apparently i need to cc 60 people. anyone know what the max is until something start to get angry?
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<DragoonAethis>
vsyrjala: 60 should still be safe if it's mostly text, going above 100 people gets risky
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<vsyrjala>
did some heavy handed trimming and ended up with a bit over 20. should hopefull cover everyone well enough via lists/etc.
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<humbleisnogo>
I understand that your folks will eventually hang themselves, but for that you have to accuse yourself, cause i never abused you so far. You were the gangsters i did the science , it never changes , it's just scientists are not gimme people despite you bragging how you chopped me under full narcosis, i come back at all of you, you are extremely retarded and with your help they erased my
<humbleisnogo>
fraud diagnosis from digital reciept, cause you never understood how crazy scum you are. I was little late on the compression results more on testing it, but it was rather well timed , i managed to get affected by your scam and started with little mistakes on allocation though linear algebra seemed to be correct, until i trimmed it correct entirely, this was a biggest achievement of my
<humbleisnogo>
life so far, i investigated that every day. And i have medals from 10 different sports events before already, but to perform so relentlessly under pressure i consider this as my biggest title. execution and encoder and decoder was already finished , but now i can store millions of positioned sets in the same variable finally, as it all went through sigma status. I care nothing anymore as
<humbleisnogo>
to how you hang yourself , cause what you did was your fault and very much not allowed in the world.
<humbleisnogo>
I enjoyed star talk alot via facebook, cornell people the students of carl sagan had great insights as to how some parts of universe work, but i did not agree on one particular part that touched my soul enough, that we are particles the same ones all, which would state after they put anchor on me, knocked off my teeth, butchered me, humiliated me and my so called girlfriend screwed such
<humbleisnogo>
biggest scum while leaving me to die with broken nose alone in the state of homeless person, tried to kill me in many ways, i would not put my dick into such apparatus soaking of the cum of biggest trash in the world in millions of years dudes, once she or her cranks or lesbian humiliators show their faces again, a lot of brutal actions will be committed by me personally and i have small
<humbleisnogo>
teams as well consisting of one of the strongest people on the planet to treat them. But overall star talk people were smart as hell compared to me.
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<humbleisnogo>
essentially the last algorithm is not so good at all, so what it does is iterate over all numerals of 32bit and more, store them to arrays in excess, so it already swaps to disk at the middle of the 20bit worth of combination arrays, yes that is not at all intelligent way to doing such things. but if i had 20gb of memory it would succeed prolly fast for 64bit combinations printing,
<humbleisnogo>
classical wrong way to think, but such mentally people exist.
<humbleisnogo>
but in reality how compilers and performant systems work is 4 instructions are only needed to be exposed + and - and their compressed intrinsics which also base on hw + and -
<humbleisnogo>
you just need to get some memory attached some you know unaligned or aligned bytes and though bitwise ops are cheap they do not have any value
<humbleisnogo>
bitwise barrel shift circuit has a great demo, it's cool they can tap into hw gates and fix some issues in hw , with godfather algorithm, but any other instructions does not serve well than only + and -.
<humbleisnogo>
the way intrinsics work, descends into the subject of science around LOGICS, mutual inclusion and mutual exclusion are the keywords, i am educated so i know those lessons luckily secondary school had it
<humbleisnogo>
so as + and - is called arithmetic , intrinsics of compressed + and - are more like arithmetic and logics mixed, where the last logics is the key to success, its even 80 percent logics based solution.
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<humbleisnogo>
so yes, i am not wrong in my design or views at all, there is nothing i should hang myself for , i say the very neat but a delicate subject is quantum computer worth of performance lives in any asic ever produced, which is something that should settle you down more.
<humbleisnogo>
i am not saying i am smarter than those people who made the manufacturing of computers possible, i am saying through all my second half of life i specialized on this subject, and when i do that , i get the results normally, and the results are this time around bit shocking but slightly expected in the past so.
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<humbleisnogo>
now for some reason i do not want to see russians and ukranians duying over this war, i do not know ukranians that well to insult them to be same as russians , though it is not insult, i consider russians one of the most intelligent humans in the whole world, such tragedy must end, now it goes like more that nato wants to accept ukranians and they will smash russians and it's clear to
<humbleisnogo>
me, this is the vote against moral people and betrayal at the most intelligent nation or one of them in the whole world. Could not they agree in some other ways but it smells really that like they told jewish country is built to the ukraine after all, so more like money talks there.
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<humbleisnogo>
and there is another thing to mention, gods or humanly gods they are not at the top of the hierarchy they are between the lines and gather the strongest people from both parts , if you want to fight with the gods there is no parts important , but it starts with the loss cause when we make ditinguished lines between + and - the best people are at gods side, so gods are between the lines
<humbleisnogo>
on earth, not that they are almighty ontop of everyone imagined.
<humbleisnogo>
in other words, they are so important that they are among the best from many clans or at least two sides.
<humbleisnogo>
so hence i have came out alive countless of times cause i always have the best people to defend me, and it has hence failed to stop me that way with evil, but that is not being immortal at all
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