ChanServ changed the topic of #dri-devel to: <ajax> nothing involved with X should ever be unable to find a bar
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<Lynne> does enabling an extension at device creation time, but not giving e.g. VkPhysicalDeviceShaderObjectFeaturesEXT in the pNext chain enable all supported features?
<bnieuwenhuizen> No
<Lynne> I know what happened, this was definitely the work of a d3d12 spy
<Lynne> the meeting this was decided on must have gone on for at least 16 hours straight, because otherwise no one rational would have said "yeah, that's a pretty good idea"
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<JoshuaAshton> Well, some features are anti-features such as buffer device address' replay features. Some features come at a cost.
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<Lynne> you can still disable them if you need to
<Lynne> needing to opt-in to extensions just means a lot more ifdeffery if you want to keep compatibility with old headers, which sadly, is required unless you want your users to send you poison pen letters
<JoshuaAshton> I just add Vulkan-Headers as a submodule
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<Lynne> we don't do submodules in ffmpeg, we're stuck in 2001 and that's just the way we like it
<JoshuaAshton> Then just ship the headers? :p
<HdkR> ooo, package maintainers love that one. It's great
<Sachiel> package maintainers wouldn't notice
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<Lynne> yeah, we don't ship headers either, particularly because we need to expose certain vulkan structures as public API, and good luck synchronizing with API users
<HdkR> Maybe I need to stop putting things in to an explicit Externals/ directory. Might be easier to skirt around :D
<JoshuaAshton> They have in the past, and have made issues against several of my repos, but typically it just involves explaining that Vulkan is ABI stable and there is nothing to worry about.
<Lynne> also there are no good options to merge vulkan-headers
<JoshuaAshton> wdym by merge?
<Lynne> a gigacommit "update vulkan headers" like they do at Vulkan-Headers upon every release is just awful to git log -p
<Lynne> a merge-commit is awful because merge commits are awful
<Lynne> and an individual rebase can't be done because khronos does gigacommits to update headers
<Lynne> clearly git submodules are the better option, but git submodules are awful too
<Sachiel> we do the "update vulkan headers" in mesa and I'm not aware of any issues with it
<Lynne> following the UNIX way is the better option, have good packaging for each distribution and regularly update it
<JoshuaAshton> In an ideal world, you would be right, but unfortunately the packaging philosophies of many distributions make that an impossibility.
<Lynne> but khronos, google, et al. don't know what pkg-config is and its evident they don't understand what dynamic linking means either, otherwise the queue API wouldn't be designed the way it is designed today, with users requiring mechanisms to trade global per-queue locks
<Lynne> actually they do know what dynamic linking is, since statically linking libvulkan on windows is officially unsupported
<airlied> just copying the files in like mesa does is probably the best actual answer, for the headers
<JoshuaAshton> I could not imagine a world where mesa would ever use the system Vulkan headers, it would be the worlds worst spam of useless ifdefs to compensate for people who want to build on Vulkan 1.0.0 known to mankind
<Lynne> (so on the most popular platform, they expect you to ship your own headers, but not expect you to statically link?)
<JoshuaAshton> Because libvulkan is just the loader
<Lynne> I'm not saying vulkan 1.0.0, we target 1 year old headers, which isn't that horrible
<JoshuaAshton> The typical usage for end users, is you use something like volk or call vkGetInstanceProcAddr, etc yourself and just build against the latest headers
<Lynne> we do all that, we just don't ship our own headers
<Lynne> volk's total running code is literally less than 20 lines, lol
<airlied> I think for ffmpeg just shipping the headers is easiest option
<Lynne> and then we'd have #include <libavutil/hwcontext_vulkan.h>; #include <vulkan.h> issues, since we need definitions for our external API
<airlied> why?
<airlied> just include vulkan.h from the headers you bring in
<JoshuaAshton> Then the include guard can deal with the rest
<Lynne> include guards will prioritize the first included vulkan headers copy
<Lynne> which can be ours
<JoshuaAshton> That's what I mean, that's what I would do
<Lynne> telling users "oh, you need to include your own vulkan header first" is just bad design
<Lynne> plus, packagers will dislike it, and all developers will dislike it
<airlied> do you expose that level of internals in the external API
<airlied> ?
<Lynne> we expose vkqueues, vkimages, vksemaphores, vkdevices, vkphysicaldevice, and I think that's all
<JoshuaAshton> why not just forward declare then?
<airlied> so you could have your installed headers just pick up from the system
<Lynne> its still means shipping hundreds of thousands of lines of autogenerated headers
<Lynne> or at least carrying them in our repo
<Lynne> and like I mentioned earlier, updating them is not a great solution
<Lynne> we still use mailing lists, you know?
<airlied> you could just make the bump to new headers an exception :-)
<airlied> like in theory you should be able to bump at any time with no problems
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<DemiMarie> JoshuaAshton: which distributions are the problematic ones?
<JoshuaAshton> DemiMarie: Many distributions have policies, such as Debian, in which they freeze package versions for stable. For example their vulkan headers are of 1.3.239 on bookworm right now, which is pretty old, coming up on 2 years now in a few months...
<DemiMarie> JoshuaAshton: is this why desktop app developers decided to bundle everything in a Flatpak/Snap/Appimage/etc?
<JoshuaAshton> I don't think that is the sole reason, but I think it's pretty high up there in terms of why I would consider targeting Flatpak, etc as a desktop app developer.
<JoshuaAshton> but for Vulkan headers alone, that probably isn't the reason -- especially as you can just ship your own.
<JoshuaAshton> but to use those Vulkan headers................... you'd need a newer driver and probably want other newer dependencies too and etc etc
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<Company> Vulkan headers do remove stuff
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<airlied> true there have been times with beta stuff and with maybe some vendor exts?
<Company> yeah
<Company> we copy the VkResult error message strings into GTK proper
<Company> and once or twice there have been deletions of VkResult values
<Company> I think it's usually very experimental extensions, but it'sa bit weird that they get deleted in some point release
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<Company> I think there's a requirement even in Vulkan to do some #ifdef check for those extensions, so it's technically GTK's fault, but it is unexpected with how Linux stuff typically works
<Company> but it's understandable that Debian stable wants to freeze the version
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<Lynne> yeah, when unstable extensions go EXT->KHR they do remove the old defines
<Lynne> when an extension is promoted to Vulkan 1.N, all of its features are added to VkPhysicalDeviceVulkan1NFeatures, right?
<Lynne> what happens if you put both the extension's struct and the 1N struct in the pnext chain, and the values differ?
<Lynne> I guess the last struct's values are used
<Lynne> but is it guaranteed that all of the extension's values will be added to the Vulkan1N features struct?
<Company> I would expect the spec to say something about it - maybe the validation layer even knows
<Company> but I can see a large project adding a Vulkan1.1 features thing for one extension while still having an extr struct for another feature in the pnext chain
<Company> like adding multiview but having YCbCrFeatures in the pnext
<misyl> Lynne: The only time that ever happens is for the beta extensions, which are the only things that have an unstable abi like that
<misyl> When regular extensions are promoted EXT -> KHR or to core, the old defines are just aliased
<Company> Lynne: another fun interaction that I remember GTK and hk having is that alyssa had fogotten to advertise an extension promoted to Vulkan 1.1 and I had just enabled the extension if version >= 1.1 without checking it
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<Company> was a fun question about whose fault that was
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<airlied> fyi marge seems dead
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<soreau> she must have been assigned a fatal MR
<airlied> :-P
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<MrCooper> HdkR: Xwayland also uses DRM_IOCTL_SYNCOBJ_EVENTFD
<fulldenial8> want to become their retardeds mob tank driver, even though the upper hand surely belongs to me, though i am affiliated with science breakthroughs and in general in the era of many science subfields. But my associates say which i agree with, i should not do lessons of technology anymore, we know i am chipped and i fuzz everything i do, cause i do not want retarded people into my life. And
<fulldenial8> And by the way you thought you had an upper hand in my abuse case despite your bully trash all kicked out from freenode, but this was never so, and so thought the orphanage house magpie gloria terreur, that we simply abuse you and talk about our mob gangsters and take your assets , in reality the magpie was given shots several times and her half brother was handled same way, i did not
<fulldenial8> i do not suffer, cause i am no longer active on things that cause terror at me, suffering is an envious people retaliating for what you are in the world of sports and cinematography, media and such, which i have all already banned out in reality, so as long as i do not achieve nor perform publicly i do not suffer, cause abortion leftovers do not envy me enough to retaliate.
<fulldenial8> simple and easy.
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* austriancoder is looking for someone to review a src/mesa/main/formats.csv related change: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/3418/diffs?commit_id=1d194e9316989cae8a00ab4062de84c332b7dc01
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<alyssa> Company: (it was mine)
<Company> the question we didn't agree on I think was if my code was technically correct
<alyssa> the user's always right?
<alyssa> :P
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<bl4ckb0ne> does it makes sense to use a timeline semaphore for acquire/submit/present ?
<dj-death> bl4ckb0ne: I don't think vulkan timeline semaphores are allowed for this
<emersion> sadly not yet
<dj-death> VUID-vkAcquireNextImageKHR-semaphore-03265
<dj-death> semaphore must have a VkSemaphoreType of VK_SEMAPHORE_TYPE_BINARY
<bl4ckb0ne> for acquireimage ?
<dj-death> same deal
<bl4ckb0ne> ah yeah its in the validation id
<bl4ckb0ne> well, that answers my issue then, thanks
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<austriancoder> daniels: you have been reviewing changes in that file .. soo .. what do you think about this: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/3418/diffs?commit_id=1d194e9316989cae8a00ab4062de84c332b7dc01
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<DavidHeidelberg> On a phone befoe immigration check, but can someone verify that "X11: fix crash of gnome-shell if mesa is compiled with legacy-x11=dri2" is ok? It got into 24.2.4 and by commit name I have feeling it's not intended to :(
<DavidHeidelberg> I saw the commit somewhere when reviewing i915 stuff, but what I recall it wasn't commit to merge as-is, but maybe I'm mistaken
<DavidHeidelberg> eric_engestrom: daniels: ^
<daniels> eric_engestrom: what about it seems wrong?
<daniels> DavidHeidelberg: ^
<DavidHeidelberg> No idea, I just recall it from aome MR and it felt like hack, but maybe it's ok now, or if it look solid, then fine.
<DavidHeidelberg> I was afraid I accidentally merged some commit in MR which shouldn't got in
<daniels> I didn't see it go by, but it does lgtm
<DavidHeidelberg> Good :) (relieved_smile)
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<eric_engestrom> DavidHeidelberg: I chose to include it even though its author (who's not a regular contributor) didn't include a backport tag, because it looks entirely correct to me, and it looks like it had been "working" by accident until then by the fact that apparently on some/most systems, `*NULL == 0`
<eric_engestrom> I felt confident enough to do that without asking; maybe I should have asked anyway :)
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<Mis012[m]> does https://github.com/jhuber6/doomgeneric/tree/amdgpu only need the CPU for input? is there any reason one couldn't use an i2c gpio expander (with polling bbiously, there's no way you can route any interrupts to the GPU cores)
<Mis012[m]> *obviously
<Mis012[m]> I'd put that as a feature request but it seems issues are disabled :P
<Ermine> seems like DRM_IOCTL_GEM_OBJECT_CREATE from that keithp's letter on GEM doesn't exist anymore?
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