<linusw>
SwedeMike: nice to see you lurking around here!
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<SwedeMike>
linusw: hi there! Yes, I do :) Was more because of previous job though, so not much openwrt at current job. Are there any nice new ARM based platforms suitable for openwrt? I see more and more intel boxes coming out, but haven't seen many ARM based ones?
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<linusw>
SwedeMike: depends on what you want to do, for home use there are several really good devices, both at home and at the Linaro office (4 people) our main router is Netgear R7800 (Nighthawk X4S) and it's the best I have ever had.
<linusw>
all of the IPQ (qualcomm) based routers are really well supported IMO
<linusw>
and those are all ARM Cortex dualcore A-9.
<PaulFertser>
What do you think about boards like mochabin + asiarf mediatek cards?
<PaulFertser>
They have SFP cages so you can connect fiber directly.
<linusw>
The reason they are good are mostly due to the ATH9/10/11k support for wlan so for other SoC I would mostly ask "is the Wlan well supported?"
<PaulFertser>
Some people here are really unhappy with ath11k.
<PaulFertser>
There's a recent report of firmware update for them breaking IPv6 multicast.
<PaulFertser>
And it's just one recent example.
<linusw>
PaulFertser: sad. I usually stay with 1-2 generations old hardware and stay off the bleeding edge. ATH9/10k is fine for me.
<f00b4r0>
same
<linusw>
Maybe my needs are not mainstream, I tend to get things working and use them for a long time. My main NAS is the D-Link DNS-313 that came out in 2007.
<f00b4r0>
I'll choose reliability over performance any day of the year.
<SwedeMike>
linusw: my personal favorite has been the marvell armada 380, I'm still rocking an WRT1200AC, because it can do close to 1GE wirespeed. I'm still looking for similar device that has plenty of CPU to actually do CPU based forwarding without offloads
<SwedeMike>
so something with 3-4 2.5GbE ports would be great
<robimarko>
You are looking for a rather high end device
<robimarko>
And all of them rely on offloading to achieve those speeds
<SwedeMike>
robimarko: there are plenty of intel offerings in this space.
<robimarko>
Those are the only offering, for the "home" ARM ones they are just rolling multiple 2.5G ports
<robimarko>
But they all use some kind of offloading
<linusw>
robimarko: which DSA switches do they use for 2.5G?
<robimarko>
linusw: Well, that is the thing, none off the shelf usually
<linusw>
How typical
<robimarko>
Well, do you know of a DSA supported switch with multiple 2.5G ports?
<robimarko>
I dont think that even Marvell has them
<linusw>
robimarko: Nope. I wrote two DSA drivers and I still have no real clue what I'm doing so I guess I should write one more. Both I wrote were 1G
<SwedeMike>
from an architectual pov, what makes the armada 385 perform so well vs most other CPUs that they ship with these kinds of platforms? It just says "model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 1 (v7l)" and I don't know enough about ARM to understand the difference. When I did CPU based testing back then, it was like 2x single thread speed vs anything else I could find
<SwedeMike>
well, to qualify, this was 2016-2018 I did that testing
<linusw>
SwedeMike: and the intel box, is that doing the routing in software or do you know if it has some DSA chip?
<robimarko>
SwedeMike: No idea, its just Cortex-A9 but it is running extremely high clocks(Up to 2.0GHz) for a A9 core
<linusw>
SwedeMike: ARMv7 Processor rev 1 (v7l) means version 7 of the instruction set, "l" means little-endian. In 10 cases out of 10 it is a dual core Cortex A-9.
<SwedeMike>
linusw: no, that's all CPU routing. It basically has a bunch of NICs. I also had an APU2 with like a 2014 AMD CPU in it, fanless, which still is faster than the WRT1200AC
<linusw>
SwedeMike: that is pretty neat. I wonder if it gets very hot.
<SwedeMike>
linusw: it draws 6-10W of power, so yes, it does get hot, but not excessively so
<SwedeMike>
there seems to be plenty of traction in this space for a small box with 2-4 NICs for virtualisation and firewall application, but it's mostly just Intel. Does ARM CPUs lack enough IO to connect these NICs to, or what's going on?
<SwedeMike>
I imagine they often connect using PCI-E to the SOC
<linusw>
I saw there is an ARM board that does 2.5 GB as well, also all SW.
<linusw>
I hope the day my operator upgrade us to 2.5G there will be some nice OpenWrt devices around.
<linusw>
I almost feel like buying one myself just to support them :D
<robimarko>
Oh, Octeon TX2
<robimarko>
That thing rocks if you need a lot of I/O
<SwedeMike>
question is, where to buy it... only place I found a price was 4200 HKD which is 500 EUR
<SwedeMike>
... and that's not worth it
<linusw>
SwedeMike: I would ask someone to personally locate it in Shenzhen, but yeah these things can be tricky.
<robimarko>
They are from Taiwain, you can probably but it directly
<robimarko>
I have their M801, its rather modular but larger
<linusw>
hm I might have contacts in Taiwan.
<linusw>
robimarko: I like their "plain OpenWrt no bullshit" approach a lot.
<robimarko>
linusw: No idea what changed, but when I had to work with them they couldnt care less
<robimarko>
You couldnt even get the GPL sources
<robimarko>
So, I even had to dump the pinctrl registers to get mainline U-Boot
<linusw>
I guess what happened is their customers all installed what you cooked up, then their customers told them "this is what we want".
<linusw>
My experience with far east vendors are at least such, license etc are of no concern, ignorance of sources etc is just inexperience. But they do exactly what paying customers want, so if they want stock OpenWrt then they will do that.
<robimarko>
We have the same experience then
<robimarko>
If they get a large enough customer then whether that customer needs is allowed
<robimarko>
My favorite thing is just the amount of damn tarballs
<robimarko>
Whenever they provide anything its just a damn tarball and plain diff patches, no need for git history at all
<linusw>
robimarko: TBH I saw the same in the SpaceX Starlink code dump I looked at last week ;)
<linusw>
usually the reason it looks like that is because the git log contains secret information about vendors, customers, internal development process or all of the above. Or swear words.
<linusw>
and a git log isn't that easy to "wash".
<Habbie>
can confirm, am not a chinese developer, but sometimes i send people tarballs to avoid leaking git history
<robimarko>
I am not talking about GPL dumps, but when dealing with them as a paying customer at work
<robimarko>
Good luck deciphering what they did when they hacked together something
<SwedeMike>
robimarko: when I interacted with them 5 years ago they had hacked together a DTS file and a ubuntu installation that would boot, but it definitely didn't feel anywhere "done". But if they now have upstreamed everything then there's hope. Otoh considering nobody is selling it I imagine they're still aiming just to sell it in volume to enterprise/ISPs
<SwedeMike>
not like the bazillion of models of similar intel hw that can be found on aliexpress etc
<robimarko>
SwedeMike: Yeah, we had the exact same experience
<robimarko>
They had a hacked up Ubuntu that kind of worked
<robimarko>
Upstreamed is a strong word, somebody added the MCU drivers based of version that somebody at my work was upstreaming
<robimarko>
But I think we lost interest in their products as they were not available for some time
<robimarko>
So that is one more thing that will be eternaly in OpenWrt
<SwedeMike>
mmm, they seem to be fairly good in making hw but doesn't seem to "get" how to properly make it supported by FOSS.
<robimarko>
I guess its the same with any other ODM
<SwedeMike>
linusw: what's ARM's take on this? The fact that each ODM has to do a lot of stuff to make it supported doesn't seem like a great thing to me...
<robimarko>
Its not their issue, they design the core and thats it
<SwedeMike>
I always disliked all these DTS files etc, it seemed like a throwback to 80-90:ies with PIN setup etc that one had to configure both sw and hw for :P
<SwedeMike>
robimarko: well, uPnP etc is a thing... why doesn't any ARM platform have it (afaik)
<SwedeMike>
why is there no discovery?
<robimarko>
SwedeMike: It does, its Arm SystemReady SR
<robimarko>
But its a complete overkill for anything other then server grade
<linusw>
SwedeMike: I honestly don't know, but yeah this SystemReady thing is supposed to be the answer IIUC.
<SwedeMike>
is it expensive to implement?
<robimarko>
It requires UEFI as far as I know
<linusw>
SwedeMike: I think it's free, you just have to upload the firmware to some service that does some automated testing and signing for approval.
<linusw>
robimarko: it does, and many solutions I've seen actually use the U-Boot implementation of UEFI, not TianoCore.
<robimarko>
linusw: Yes, U-Boot has a working EFI stack
<robimarko>
My point is that none of the vendors want to bother with it
<SwedeMike>
linusw: I mean, is it expensive from a hw view to support?
<SwedeMike>
and sw pov as well
<robimarko>
It costs money and brings nothing to the silicon vendors nor ODM-s
<robimarko>
Its an overkill since 99% of the products just use prebuilt images for that device
<SwedeMike>
well, it costs them business because in this space everybody buys intel instead
<SwedeMike>
and it's more work for anyone who want to make a product based on the hw
<robimarko>
Well, its a niche market
<robimarko>
Money is in huge volume home/SOHO stuff
<robimarko>
And then gravy in the enteprise gear
<linusw>
I think it all is driven by the change that is "supply chain" so a lot of customers have started to request complete supply chain audits.
<linusw>
If the equivalent of ISPs (Telenor, or whatever) start to request complete audits for home routers then the concept will be more popular IIUC.
<linusw>
I think right now they are mostly happy as long as the equipment works.
<robimarko>
Of course they are cause asking anything would cause the price to increase
<robimarko>
And they dont care, it works and that is enough
<linusw>
ISPs requesting audits would only be incentivized by something like a European legislation saying they have to do it. (Like some other such we have seen.)
<linusw>
So now the few customers who request that are military and huge corporate, so a bit niche.
<robimarko>
Those would end up being rubber stamp audits
<robimarko>
Few of the "security" audits I have seen are just so stupid its crazy
<robimarko>
Its a one size fits all SW suite
<robimarko>
So half of the things "they" audited didnt even apply
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<SwedeMike>
bit confusing that they go through the effort of making youtube videos etc of it being "real openwrt router" and then don't make it available to purchase for hobbyists. Openwrt isn't a great platform for "software defined router" for SME anyway, so I don't know what market segment they're aiming for
<linusw>
SwedeMike: ISPs who want to buy a container shipment I think.
<robimarko>
Wait, isnt Qnap rebranding those?
<robimarko>
Yeah, M901 is rebranded as Qhora-321
<robimarko>
And M902 as Qhora-322
<robimarko>
Those you can get anywhere(But are 500+ EUR)
<SwedeMike>
yikes
<linusw>
I already see a business opportunity here.
<mrkiko>
robimarko: thanks| BTW - I was wondering if you might interested in me testing ipq4xx/6.1 in gl-b2200, but have no UART for that device, I can test keeping wi-fi connected. i have UART on a 7530 but I guess that device is so popular you'll already have other testers.
<robimarko>
mrkiko: No need as the tagger is broken
<robimarko>
So it will crash
<robimarko>
I need to put some time into it but had none so far
<mrkiko>
robimarko: wow, kinda amazing story as well. Should admit your commit is very clear, instead I am not yet understanding why the patch you pointed me to did uncover the issue. Due to the fact it used the actual Kconfig framework?
<minimal>
robimarko: newer kernels do have quite a few entropy-related changes but they're typically intended to speed up gaining initial entropy, not slow it down
<minimal>
though obviously a typical MIPS-based OpenWRT device may not have many of the typical entropy sources
<robimarko>
minimal: Well, that is the thing I am seeing this regression on ipq807x
<robimarko>
It even has a HW PRNG
<robimarko>
I remember somebody else reporting the same slowdown in booting
<minimal>
if there's a driver for it then it should be used (assuming the driver is loaded)
<minimal>
if the driver for it compiled into the kernel or a loadable module?
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<philipp64>
I have an x86 box that doesn't have a platform driver, nor a DTSI file (obviously). How do I define GPIO's assignments for swtiches and LEDs?
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<minimal>
robimarko: I see drivers like ccp (AMD) and allwinner sun8i-ce-core do call hwrng_register to register that they provide a RNG
<minimal>
that's a different matter from called other crypto functions to indicate you provide HW accel for certain crypto algos
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<philipp64>
rmilecki: got a question for you... I went into my /etc/board.d/02_network and added near the top 'logger -p daemon.info "board_name: $(board_name)"' but nothing gets logged. what would stop it from getting executed?
<enyc>
Whats' with all the failures ? does this mean 23.05.0-rc3 related or post that changes?
<KanjiMonster>
enyc: "rsync: write failed on "/23.05-SNAPSHOT/targets/lantiq/xway_legacy/feeds.buildinfo" (in release-uploads): No space left on device (28)"
<enyc>
aah so snapshot related only
<KanjiMonster>
also unrelated to any code changes, and just ran out of space