ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput | register your nick to speak
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<pq>
swick, I have stuff brewing for color-and-hdr docs so would be nice if you kept an eye on the MRs there.
<pq>
swick, after all, I cannot merge any of my own MRs without either you or Vitaly acking them the very least.
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<dottedmag>
I'm playing with a wearable "keyboard" that has a mode to detect finger taps. Here's their website: https://www.tapwithus.com. I wonder what would be a good abstraction for such an input device?
<dottedmag>
Any prior work?
<dottedmag>
I wonder if "keyboard" with five keys: thumb ... little-finger, somewhere in unused space of evdev keys is appropriate.
<dottedmag>
There is a complication though: this device also has a keyboard mode: taps are processed by the device itself, composed and delivered to the computer via regular HID, and switching between the modes has to be done from the computer, so there should be some kind of back channel (similar to caps lock)
<pq>
whot, ^
<jadahl>
dottedmag: are you playing by adding a kernel driver or ..?
<pq>
all I can think of is "input methods"
<jadahl>
input method for mouse movements?
* pq
hides
<dottedmag>
jadahl: It's Bluetooth LE, so I am talking to it from userspace for now
<dottedmag>
Basically, a bitmap of 5 fingers (they coalesce close taps into a single event).
<jadahl>
so all the processing that turns things into key strokes or mouse movements are done in software then I guess?
<dottedmag>
There are two main modes this device may be (aside from maintenance ones): keyboard/mouse, where the device itself composes taps into keys/mouse presses, and delivers them via HID, and "controller", where device sends raw taps to the computer.
<dottedmag>
keyboard/mouse is trivial, as it's just another regular device. controller needs a new abstraction, or shoehorning into existing matching abstraction.
<jadahl>
so the keyboard/mouse, they turn up as evdev devices and you don't need to deal with BT?
<dottedmag>
Yes
<jadahl>
neat
<jadahl>
I guess the other can be used for very custom user interaction? like rotating a globe, or other 3D stuff
<dottedmag>
Yes
<dottedmag>
Manufacturer provides SDKs for applications, but this seems suboptimal, given how simple the protocol is.
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<jadahl>
what else would one want?
<dottedmag>
Well, open a device, read events? SDKs are for C#, Python and Java, good luck with everything else.
<dottedmag>
At least they are open-sourced, so one could do it.
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<jadahl>
maybe a shared library with a C API could be useful. would probably fit better into the majority of relevant applications on linux
<emersion>
seems pretty similar to the gamepad situation
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<dottedmag>
Oh, that's right. This device looks like a gamepad.
<dottedmag>
I never used gamepads -- are their buttons mapped to keyboard keypresses?
<dottedmag>
Fun, there is BTN_THUMB and BTN_PINKIE in evdev codes (copied from joystick interface?), but no codes for other fingers.
<pq>
no, gamepad are not using key events I think - they have multiple analog axes and buttons I think.
<emersion>
dottedmag: see inputfd MR in wayland-protocols
<SardemFF7>
at HID level at least, they are really different than keyboards, basically you get a min/max for buttons and another for axis, and the data you get is an array
<dottedmag>
emersion: thanks
<dottedmag>
This is actually an argument for exposing "controller mode" via evdev interface, or sandboxed apps won't be able to enable it and have events delivered.
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<jadahl>
dottedmag: so you're not accessing directly with BT, even in the "raw" mode?
<dottedmag>
jadahl: Frankly I have no idea what I am doing :) Never used BT programmatically before, don't know any layers in it.
<jadahl>
BT means dealing with pairing UX etc, then eventually you get something that looks like a byte stream
<jadahl>
and using the bluetooth stack, not evdev. but if it already shows up as hid devices in the "raw" mode, I guess you don't need to deal with BT APIs directly
<dottedmag>
Yes, I'm talking to the device that's already paired.
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<swick>
DemiMarieObenour[m]: it also means that the client has to send something to identify itself. thats only feasable if it wants to acquire more privileges and not if you need the identity for example for resource accounting
<swick>
pq: yeah, I'm a bit behind on the color stuff because of other things but I'll try to review all the color-and-hdr MRs this week
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<hendursaga>
Can someone point to a way to swap capslock with escape? setxkbmap only works in xwayland apparently
<hendursaga>
Oh and also, I'm not using GNOME, so Gnome Tweaks won't work either
<emersion>
which compositor are you using?
<hendursaga>
Whichever one Plasma uses
<hendursaga>
I know sway has one way of doing it, but I don't always use sway
<emersion>
please ask in a KDE support channel
<emersion>
each compositor has its own way of doing keyboard configuration
<hendursaga>
alright then
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<marler8997>
Hey, I'm investigating at various "remote desktop" solutions. We're using weston at the moment. I've been looking at various solutions and am wondering if anyone here has suggestions as well
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<whot>
dottedmag: closest thing I can think of is the twiddler but it's been 15y since I played with one and that was before I did anything input
<whot>
dottedmag: interestingly, it still exists
<whot>
but yeah, you're running in to the joystick/gamepad problem here. A device with unspecified buttons and it requires full userspace support to make those buttons do something
<whot>
you could expose them via evdev but that still doesn't help with the issue that nothing will handle those button codes out of the box