09:37 <kibomo> hey looking at making some gtk4 applications for a wlroots based compositor and was interested if i could do away with dbus. does wayland have ipc options for me? i saw that sway does not require dbus :)

09:37 <emersion> wayland is for compositor <-> clients IPC

09:38 <emersion> wayland doesn't require dbus'

09:38 <emersion> can you elaborate what you're trying to do?

09:39 <kibomo> i want to make gtk4 applications that dont' require dbus aswell as run that on a system with wlroots compositor without dbus installed

09:40 <SardemFF7> GTK doesn’t require D-Bus by itself

09:40 <kibomo> basicly no dbus, or systemd installed on system. and build gtk applications for native wayland

09:40 <SardemFF7> (GLib has its own D-Bus protocol implementation anyway)

09:40 <emersion> you should be able to just use gtk4 then

09:41 <kibomo> oh so just glib should be fine?

09:41 <SardemFF7> ATK uses D-Bus but I think it’s safe to use without, it just won’t do anything

09:41 <emersion> glib is a gtk dependency…

09:42 <SardemFF7> sure but AFAIU it’s not a problem here

09:43 <SardemFF7> kibomo: can you elaborate a lot more on your “that doesn’t require D-Bus” requirement?

09:43 <SardemFF7> what do you mean exactly by that?

09:43 <emersion> yeah it's not a problem, just a confusing question to ask

09:44 <emersion> "i want to use HTML without JS -- oh so i can just use HTTP then?"

09:45 <emersion> in any case, tl;dr is just use gtk4 and you'll be fine

09:45 <SardemFF7> if you want a system without libdbus.so.* nor dbus-daemon, you’ll be fine with virtually any toolkit I’m aware of AFAICT :-)

09:47 <jadahl> anything based on GApplication (thus many gtk applications) might either not work, or behave badly, without any D-Bus daemon, but I haven't tried

09:57 <kibomo> mm maybe dbus is fine

09:58 <kibomo> its ok im still confused about what dbus is apparently multiple implementations and what not, you have system wide dbus and normally a session for a de

10:00 <SardemFF7> D-Bus is a protocol, that requires 2 parts to work: a broker, and programs, usually, programs can be divided in two groups: those that provide a service, and those that use services (but they can do both too)

10:00 <kibomo> doesn't wayland have an ipc protocol?

10:00 <SardemFF7> GApplications are providing the service « <me> »

10:01 <jadahl> wayland *is* an IPC protocol

10:01 <jadahl> but so is a unix PIPE, if one tries hard enough

10:03 <jadahl> kibomo: some services expose themself on the system bus, some on the session bus. it depends on what they do. for example networking is a system wide thing, so NetworkManager exposes itself on the system bus. notifications is a per user thing, so the notification daemon exposes itself on the session bus

10:06 <emersion> kibomo: wayland is an IPC for communication between the compositor and its clients only. dbus is a more general IPC mechanism for arbitrary program-to-program communication

10:08 <kibomo> so i should keep dbus installed

10:08 <emersion> well, that's up to you

10:31 <wlb> weston Issue #567 opened by () How to enable the screenshooter in kiosk-mode https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/567

11:42 <wlb> weston Issue #568 opened by () weston_paint_node_ensure_color_transform: Assertion 'it->surf_xform_valid == false' failed https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/568

16:06 <wlb> weston/main: Daniel Stone (daniels) * 8 commits https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/compare/b4e70a49ef953ed174041dd0432e163311639554...18d9ad98b1f383b0e5a0c8a25f289a9085bcecc1

16:06 <wlb> weston Merge request !544 merged \o/ (Add support to dma-buf feedback https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/merge_requests/544)

16:07 <daniels> leandrohrb: ^ !!!!!

16:07 <emersion> !!!

16:07 <emersion> congrats!

16:07 <daniels> emersion: merci merci merci pour tout votre assistance aussi!

16:08 <emersion> :D

16:08 <daniels> (*toutes?)

16:08 <bl4ckb0ne> toute

16:08 <bl4ckb0ne> gz emersion & all

16:09 <daniels> a week in Paris has really not improved my French, which is also far worse than it was last time I was here :\

18:51 <wlb> weston Merge request !734 opened by () desktop-shell: Don't crash if output is removed during fade https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/merge_requests/734

18:56 <leandrohrb> yay!!!!! that's awesome news, thank you all for the great job and all the help :)

19:59 <daniels> leandrohrb: thank you for all your work - I'm so glad we made it in the end :)

20:20 <emersion> leandrohrb: seconded, many thanks!

20:31 <daniels> guess I'll have to retire now

20:51 <daniels> emersion: btw, does wlr have any kind of logging similar to Weston's debug scopes? wondering if there's any way we can compare effectiveness on our backend implementations

20:51 <emersion> unfortunately it does not

20:52 <emersion> it's something we want to add at some point

20:52 <emersion> ah, also wlr will cache dmabuf imports

20:52 <emersion> but it doesn't have the poison stuff you've added to your MR (good idea btw!)

20:55 <daniels> it would be better if it didn't leak refs, but that's neither here nor there :P

20:56 <emersion> did someone hear something about leaked refs?

20:57 <daniels> franchment I've been trying not to hear it whilst on holiday this week

21:48 <emersion> hm and now i see that we're having a bug where we still repeatedly import client buffers…

22:15 <daniels> ManMower: ^ is this your doing

22:18 <emersion> i mean in wlroots ^^

22:39 <daniels> I know, bad joke :)

22:39 <emersion> phew :P

22:43 <Plagman> emersion: in which path?

22:43 <Plagman> i haven't seen extraneous imports on our end

22:43 <Plagman> afaik bas' patchset removed the last set

22:43 <emersion> it's in our DRM backend

22:44 <Plagman> ah ok

22:44 <emersion> so yeah gamescope shouldn't be impacted