ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput | register your nick to speak
<daniels>
for actual text entry, yes you’re right to say that you can use a text-based or pre-composed protocol - and we do have that
<daniels>
but then how do you make ^S save a document? or Ctrl+Shift+S save as?
<daniels>
(bonus points for making Latin shortcuts work on dual Latin + non-Latin layouts)
<daniels>
if you never need to deal with physical keyboards then all this goes away
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<dottedmag>
Fuchsia could synthetize a xkb-compatible keymap on the fly that does exactly what's needed (basically a no-op), and pass processed key events.
<fmil>
dottedmag: yes, that would be one option.
<dottedmag>
With the caveats for modifiers etc
<fmil>
It's not obvious to me that there would be a clean translation. And, in the end, no guarantees that clients would behave consistently.
<fmil>
daniels: you can make ^S save a document by passing more information in with the key event. But perhaps this is not what makes sense for Wayland and I understand that.
<daniels>
fmil: what kind of information?
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<fmil>
daniels: a shortcut identifier for example. I'm not quite sure how that would work in wayland though. I know how we did this in Fuchsia, but that's just biasing my position. :(
<daniels>
yeah, it’s possible to an extent, but gets difficult as you try to support more things - and doubly so if you don’t have a single coherent toolkit to target
<fmil>
daniels: noted. the latter part of your remark, "no single coherent toolkit to target" - wouldn't it be useful to push some of that behavior into Wayland, so toolkits could build off consistent behavior? Or is it too much of a pipe dream?
<daniels>
fmil: unfortunately it’s a total pipe dream - even just for the desktop and mobile world, let alone games, let alone apps which are their own toolkit (think pro software like Resolve all the way down to Kodi), let alone stuff like Flutter
<daniels>
the web also has an extremely keycode-centric model; you can do a lossy mapping back to that, but the benefits eventually just evaporate
<fmil>
daniels: noted. Thanks for explaining.
<daniels>
(our starting point was that everything should be text but in extremis where really necessary - safe to say that didn’t work out …)
<daniels>
np
<dottedmag>
I havent' look at it: how useful are semantic-ish keysyms like XF86Save / XF86Open? Do popular toolkits implement them?
<fmil>
would you happen to know - or know who knows - how KDE or Gnome centralize their settings then.
<dottedmag>
*haven't looked
<fmil>
just looking at the APIs, seems like it's a free-for-all. But then on second look there's some regularity - toolkits implement their W integrations so at least if you use say Qt you get consistent behavior
<fmil>
but kde does seem to need to enforce centralized settings that are then upheld by all the desktop apps - what mechanism is used there/
<daniels>
fmil: you mean shortcut settings? each environment (as distinct from toolkit …) has their own conventions, and they’re configurable per-app
<daniels>
e.g. KDE sitting on top of Qt has its own standards for what to use, GNOME on top of GTK similarly
<fmil>
daniels: I mean for example, if I set a FR keymap in the KDE settings, I'd expect apps to comply.
<fmil>
but I suppose it's only KDE-aware apps will comply.
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<Sachiel>
that's the part where the compositor sends the keymap when you get the keyboard
<daniels>
fmil: no, the keymap is part of the protocol, sent from server to client
<Sachiel>
remember wayland is not x11, there is no wayland server both kde and apps connect to. KDE *is* the server
<daniels>
when you configure a French keymap, the server sends a French keymap down to all the clients, so they can see that pressing the key next to tab should result in A rather than Q
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<daniels>
but it only maps as far as keysyms and modifiers which may need to be composed together (e.g. W with Ctrl+Shift held), it doesn’t attempt to ascribe semantic meaning to it (close all tabs)
<fmil>
noted.
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<fmil>
thanks, all for answering my questions and your time and patience.
<fmil>
I understand a bit better where things are at the moment.
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<fmil>
Scrolling back, keymap generation may be the best angle to provide keymapping from Fuchsia to wayland...
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<luyn>
whot emersion: Can we talk about #746 here? :)
<emersion>
sure
<luyn>
I got the data on ubuntu major: 0.80/262.00mm minor: ……，
<luyn>
May I ask the minimum and maximum value of this data which should I use as the true touch point circle diameter
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<luyn>
I feel that the obtained maximum value of 262.00mm is not correct
<whot>
luyn: major/minor ranges are usually garbage - how did you convert to mm?
<whot>
luyn: for touchpads at least we have device-specific numbers in libinput so we can convert them to touch sizes
<whot>
luyn: for touchscreens - dunno, never looked into it that precisely but i suspect it'll be the same. if you think it should make more sense it may be worth checking if the hid reports are correct and the kernel converts it as expected
<luyn>
I mean can I use this data directly obtained by libinput, is it correct?
<whot>
luyn: libinput doesn't handle the major/minor for touchscreens
<whot>
bbiab
<luyn>
Ok thank you, I will take a look at this conversion logic of the kernel
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<luyn>
whot: I still have a question. I can't get this data using libinput on deepin. Is it related to the kernel version or some settings of libinput?
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<whot>
luyn: if you're referring to libinput record output - that records kernel events only, libinput itself doesn't come into play here
<whot>
davidre: fwiw, planning to give you a libei 0.1 somewhen this week once the current MRs are in
<davidre>
:O
<whot>
i figured holding back is pointless, anyone using a 0.1 deserves to be punished if they assume the API is stable ;)
<whot>
and I suspect it does make your life easier
<davidre>
Awesome, for our use case not stable I guess can be fine since we can match server and client
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<luyn>
whot:I mean is that the use of libinput on deepin does not output major data. Is it caused by the kernel?
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<davidre>
Libinput does not handle major data for touchscreen
<davidre>
s/touchscreen/touchscreens/
<luyn>
What I mean is that I can use 'libinput debug-events' on ubuntu to get major:...data, but not on deepin, is it a kernel problem of deepin or other settings
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<whot>
libinput debug-events should never print major/minor
<whot>
oh, unless it's a totem I guess
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<whot>
luyn: any difference in 'libinput record' are solely the kernel
<luyn>
ok, got it, thanks
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<luyn>
Could you give me some advice if I want to check the differences in the kernel?
<whot>
what version of ubuntu are you on?
<whot>
i'm about to go to bed, so don't have much time left
<luyn>
16.04
<whot>
that is... old
<whot>
oh, look, and that version has a ubuntu-specific patch to libinput to export the touch size
<whot>
but it only passes those values on without fixing them, so everyone gets garbage
<luyn>
don't disturb your rest tomorrow is ok
<whot>
which is why the patch never went upstream, but 16.04 shipped it. not sure when ubuntu dropped it
<luyn>
OK, I'll go look for such a patch
<whot>
but Andreas (the patch author) left C shortly after that iirc and there was no further push to get this upstream
<whot>
clearly it wasn't that important then
<luyn>
More people use it now ;-)
<whot>
well, 18.04 apparently dropped it (which would've broken the API and ABI)
<whot>
so I'm a bit unsure who the user was in 16.04 but anyway
<whot>
luyn: so this explains why you see it in debug-events but that's a ubuntu-only patch
<whot>
upstream libinput doesn't touch major/minor on touchscreens because the data is garbage and we have to quirk every device
<whot>
and unless there's real demand for it that's not worth the effort
<whot>
and demand as in "we need this" as opposed to "wouldn't it be cool if we had this"
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<luyn>
What I am doing now is adapting a new touch screen, and I want to use the major/minor data for application development. I am currently getting this data for debugging.
<luyn>
So I would like to first confirm whether the kernel does not provide this data
<whot>
libinput record will tell you, that's just a more useful version of evtest
<whot>
or evemu-record if you are on 16.04
<whot>
luyn: we're going to have to continue this tomorrow or in the gitlab issue
* whot
waves
<luyn>
ok thanks a lot
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<luyn>
whot:I have found Andreas' patch 0001-libinput-add-orientation-and-size-of-touch-point-and.patch
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<pq>
Should weston have its own option for libseat log level? I don't think there is any other way to set the loglevel libseat builtin.
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<kennylevinsen>
pq: it's no different from libinput loglevel I guess
<kennylevinsen>
in wlroots we discussed having a way to toggle subsystem loglevels, but need isn't high so it hasn't materialized yet
<pq>
yeah, I'm trying to remember where that is
<pq>
oh, env var, ugh
<pq>
also silently ignores mistyped values
<pq>
I think I'll just live without.
<pq>
While testing HDR mode setup in Weston, I have an annoying problem. When I quit Weston, amdgpu shows garbage on the screen. There is no fbcon or anything that should take over.
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<pq>
If Weston was in HDR mode, the garbage is really BRIGHT.
<pq>
So I think we'd need what one would call KMS state sanitation on Weston exit/switch-out to adhere to the "smooth display switching" concept.
<pq>
As a side effect, since it would reset display to SDR mode, it wouldn't shine on my face.
<kennylevinsen>
Hmm, does it only happen in hdr mode?
<kennylevinsen>
right now seatd just takes back your drm master rights and when controlling VTs reset the mode there to make the kernel console usable again
<pq>
There is no HDR mode per se. HDR mode is just telling the monitor "btw. my signal is HDR". It's not a video mode.
<pq>
i.e. HDR mode is just a KMS property on the connector, not on the CRTC
<pq>
kennylevinsen, oh, this is not related to seatd, sorry. I switched topics. :-)
<pq>
also there are no VTs on this gfx card
<pq>
no VT, no fbcon, no userspace - which might be a situation untested for the kernel driver
<kennylevinsen>
Ah right, yeah I suppose fbcon is responsible for the "cleanup" modeset otherwise performed
<pq>
yes, the next KMS client is - but in this case there is none
<pq>
I'm not sure what Weston does, but either it leaves the FB up, which case I should probably see the last FB weston rendered, or weston RmFBs it in which case the CRTC should turn off.
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<pq>
drm_info shows a valid mode, right pixel format, good FB size, but FB plane 0 offset is 4 billion.
<pq>
aaanyway... I have enough distractions that I wouldn't want to embark on a "sanitize KMS state on exit" journey right now
<pq>
oh...there is a detail I often wrong about DRM
<pq>
something about closing the device implicitly RmFBs all remaining FBs...
<pq>
so you don't leak FB content to the next KMS client if you close your device
<pq>
that would explain why I don't see weston's final frame after quit
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<emersion>
yup
<emersion>
i have sent a closefb patch
<pq>
well, I would expect the CRTC to turn off, not show garbage
<pq>
maybe it does turn off
<pq>
oohohoo, it *is* fbcon
<pq>
err, I mean fbdev
<pq>
fbdev without fbcon means garbage on screen
<pq>
verified by 'yes > /dev/fb1' making the screen purple
<bl4ckb0ne>
is there public clients that use the tablet-unstable-v2 protocol?
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