ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput | register your nick to speak
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<pq> emersion, whoo! \o/
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<zubzub> oh a discussion about X12 on HN
<zubzub> thme comments 🥲
<emersion> yeah, do not recommend
<emersion> "but simon, what were you expecting"
<zubzub> I read some of it knowing full well what to expect 💩
<zubzub> but there were clearly no new insights to be gained after a minute of reading or so
<davidre> Same mistake as reading phoronix comments :D
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<wlb> weston Issue #728 opened by Pekka Paalanen (pq) GL-renderer forgets to destroy GL context https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/728 [GL renderer]
<wlb> wayland Issue #361 opened by Pekka Paalanen (pq) wl_display_disconnect has misleading documentation https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/issues/361 [Documentation], [IPC library]
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<pq> oh hey, wlb works again for weston too. :-)
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<pq> swick[m], I'm attacking the rendering intent next for the protocol. Are you continuing with the HDR static metadata?
<swick[m]> sure, seems easy enough
<pq> will need image description events for the metadata too
<swick[m]> yeah, noticed that as well
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<pq> I think I've finally understood why I read from somewhere that one should never fill a chromaticity diagram with colors.
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<vsyrjala> one should just leave it blank or what?
<pq> yes
<pq> especially around the center, any specific x,y point does not have a specific color appearance. However, if you fill the diagram with colors, you are implicitly giving each point a specific appeareance.
<vsyrjala> i suppose. but it does provide the "this way towards reddish" sort of hint
<emersion> maybe only use colors for the primaries?
<vsyrjala> but yeah, remembering that the colors aren't real is hard
<pq> Which x,y point looks the most "white"? That is dictated by the viewer and their environment, it's not any one x,y point.
<swick[m]> that also changes the appearance of the primaries
<emersion> right, but maybe it's more obvious that it's just a hint that way
<pq> emersion, yes, denoting primaries with colored point is fine, in that it doesn't give a wrong idea.
<emersion> what's the difference here between the white point and primaries?
<emersion> the white point is more of a lie than the primaries?
<JEEB> H.273/CICP primaries points contain a white point as well, so most likely that's why that exists there, too
<pq> In that very specific context, primaries are your R, G and B lamps, and white point is the chromaticity they emit when each one has equal power.
<emersion> hm, and so there's no single white point on the graph?
<pq> correct
<emersion> it's more of a line in the 3D space?
<pq> a monitor has a single white point, and you find it my setting all color channel to equal values.
<pq> or simply to max values
<JEEB> yup
<pq> another monitor may have a different white point
<pq> if you have only primaries, your definition of a color space is not complete without the white point, because the white point puts the primaries into the same "scale".
<pq> Each primary has its own "scale of strength", and when you start mixing them to produce other, ahem, colors, you need to know their relative strength.
<pq> That is all colorimetry, physically measurable quantities, like CIE 1931 x,y.
<pq> Appearance, or what does a certain x,y *look* like, is another matter.
<pq> That depends on what you, the viewer, have adapted to.
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<pq> If I was living in a room lit only with pale green lights, and you came in from outdoors, I might say "this paper looks white" while you say "how can you live here when everything looks so green?" :-)
<pq> It's an exaggeration, but it's real.
<pq> Ever thought why seeing a TV through a window while you are outside looks so blue, yet when you watch TV inside it looks normal?
<wlb> wayland Merge request !298 opened by Simon Ser (emersion) client: fix wl_display_disconnect() documentation https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/merge_requests/298 [IPC library]
<pq> The TV is emitting the same x,y chromaticity regardless of where you are, but you see it differently.
<kennylevinsen> if you swap pale green for orange it becomes a completely regular scenario with excessively warm white lamps...
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<pq> yup
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<kennylevinsen> although less likely to catch people's attention due to lying on the planckian locus which we are accustumed to for white balance
<pq> I must say, after spending an hour or so in a pale green lit room, walking out to see the nature's Autumn colors in daylight was mindblowing.
<kennylevinsen> Hah, an interesting color perception experiment :)
<kennylevinsen> And a peculiar choice in interior lighting
<pq> and a few seconds later, the impression was gone :'-|
<pq> well, it was a university color lab
<pq> I was wondering why the professor threw us out with such speed and haste, but now I know. Adaptation happens fast.
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<wlb> wayland Merge request !299 opened by Simon Ser (emersion) Draft: server: make wl_event_loop optional https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/merge_requests/299 [IPC library]
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<swick[m]> pq: I don't think I can add any of the luminance metadata before we have not defined the reference display and reference viewing environment in the protocol
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<swick[m]> for PQ this is all tied closely together but everywhere else it already breaks apart
<swick[m]> even for PQ you have to assume that the mastering display viewing environment is the same as the reference viewing environment
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<wlb> weston Merge request !1181 opened by Robert Mader (rmader) clients/simple-egl: Implement fractional-scale protocol support https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/merge_requests/1181
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