ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
fmuellner has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
lsd|2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
lsd|2 has joined #wayland
lsd|2 has quit []
lsd|2 has joined #wayland
columbarius has joined #wayland
chamlis has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Company>
but I don't even know how many apps that support 200% can actually deal with 300%
<Company>
like, I don't think GTK3 properly deals with 300%
<jadahl>
I accidentally made GTK4 deal with 1750% and it worked
<Company>
I suspect icons may be blurry with GTK3
<Company>
GTK 4.16 is a lot better in that respect
<Company>
4.14
<Company>
but even before it should be good enough to deal with integers >2
<Company>
the magnifier in the GTK3 inspector blurs icons if I grow the size - but that might just be because it reuses the texture as-is
<Company>
nope, seems to work
lbia has joined #wayland
<Company>
seems we include and use SVGs everywhere once you go larger
<Company>
also good that settings is adaptive, so I can get at the scale dropdown with a 960x600 resolution
<Company>
jadahl: was your plan to keep 240/137 as a valid scale in the future?
<Company>
because the panel is currently 52px (device pixels) high at 175%
<Company>
and 137px would be the first one where a maximized application would get a proper height
<Company>
because I would think it's better to just "resize" the output to 3836x2394 and use 175% exactly
<Company>
(i would probably not offer 175%, but assuming you want to do that I'd prefer this solution)
<jadahl>
Company: what you're asking is to not allow fullscreen windows to be actually fullscreen
<jadahl>
also, with 1.75 exactly, it'd be 2400/1371, and the output would be 3840/2399
fmuellner has joined #wayland
<jadahl>
but that is what the protocol requires already
<Company>
jadahl: I'm saying that not being fullscreen exactly is preferrable to weird scales, yes
<Company>
though it'd be fullscreen in the Wayland sense - it'd cover the whole output
<jadahl>
so that clients get a higher chance of neat alignment?
<Company>
it'd just not cover the whole hardware
<Company>
yeah
<kennylevinsen>
I would personally prefer true fullscreen, just couldn't get it to work reasonable with a "buffer = logical size * scale" approach
<Company>
not just clients - compositors, too, for panels and aligned windows
<jadahl>
I don't think "higher chance" is good enough. clients should handle the case where it's not lucky and align things internally
<jadahl>
one shouldn't have to micro manage a window position or size to get decent results
<jadahl>
kennylevinsen: it works if 'scale' isn't limited by /120
<kennylevinsen>
jadahl: I'd have to visualize the pixel grid misalignment from integer content to see
<kennylevinsen>
unfortunate grid alignments can make things... bad
<kennylevinsen>
assuming no bugs in hidpi, that part "should" handle it fine - but might take some adjustment to get all the accidental rounding errors sorted
<Company>
you also get fun things like subsurface alignment
<jadahl>
subsurfaces are not supported anyway
<jadahl>
perhaps they can be if we positioned them in the physical pixel grid of the parent instead of logical
<Company>
I was assuming they should be supported at some point
<kennylevinsen>
(I'm also not entirely sure what the effect on intermediate window sizes would be with extremely poor pixel grid alignments)
<Company>
for popovers exact alignment doesn't matter much
<Company>
for graphics offload you get seams
<kennylevinsen>
popovers should also be xdg-popups, no?
<jadahl>
"wl_subsurface.set_coordinate_space(BUFFER)" then hav set_position be in buffer coordinates
<Company>
but graphics offload needs special care anyway, though it's gonna be a bitch to come up with an API that gets 0.5708333... correct without ever getting rounding errors
<Company>
kennylevinsen: yeah - when I said subsurfaces, I meant non-toplevels, ie everything that's relative
Guest7343 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<Company>
kennylevinsen: I assume wl_layer_shell has that problem, too, where the layer should touch maximized windows without seams
<Company>
because sometimes you want application coords and sometimes you want device coords
<Company>
even for the same thing, depending on use case
<kennylevinsen>
Hmm, I don't think the API needs to expose both simultaneously
<jadahl>
right, you still want "surface" coords to make sense because they reflect the size they appear to the human
cool110 has joined #wayland
<Company>
I would think the best solution would be to allow fractions for all those application space coords
<kennylevinsen>
You need to do a calculation to map from the applications' logical coordinate space to the buffer coordinate space, and if you can do the calculation in one place I don't see why you need the compositor to do it for you for other things
<Company>
but that doesn't work without breaking API everywhere
cool110 is now known as Guest7349
<Company>
kennylevinsen: the problem is that you have integers - and sometimes you want an integer amount of device pixels and sometimes an integer amount of application pixels
<kennylevinsen>
yeah but the application cannot avoid having to do the math to be able to render its UI, so from my perspective that mapping must already be solvable in the client
<Company>
like when playing a 1920x1080 video on a 1/752... scale factor on a 3840x2400 screen, you exactly know where to put the video in device pixels
<Company>
but you need to place and size it in application space
<kennylevinsen>
having APIs in multiple coordinate spaces for the same client would just move the calculation to the compositor
<Company>
*1.752... scale factor
nniro has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<kennylevinsen>
1/752 scale, gotcha :D
<zamundaaa[m]>
Company: if you want to go from the scaled coordinate grid to logical coordinates, the app can just divide the values by the scale
<Company>
zamundaaa[m]: the one word I have most problems with in your sentence is "just"
cmeissl[m] has quit [Quit: Client limit exceeded: 20000]
garnacho has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nniro_ has joined #wayland
nniro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
leon-anavi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rasterman has quit [Quit: Gettin' stinky!]
garnacho has joined #wayland
<JoshuaAshton>
It's nearly icon day everyone :D
<JoshuaAshton>
I'm so excited
garnacho has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
garnacho has joined #wayland
garnacho has quit []
garnacho has joined #wayland
garnacho has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kts_ has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
garnacho has joined #wayland
DodoGTA has quit [Quit: DodoGTA]
<swick[m]>
emersion: can you please hold off merging until we have an official position in gnome?
<emersion>
GNOME has a few days to NACK if they want to
DodoGTA has joined #wayland
<emersion>
i will not hold off much longer, the 30 day period has elapsed
<emersion>
also, please understand the consequences of NACK'ing before doing so
<swick[m]>
various people are away right now enjoying a longer weekend
<emersion>
i think there was plenty of time already, sorry
<swick[m]>
the MR was opened 5 month ago
<emersion>
yes
<swick[m]>
you can wait another week
<emersion>
sgh
<emersion>
sigh*
<JoshuaAshton>
:/
<emersion>
definitely didn't have surprise NACK on my bingo card for this one
<LaserEyess>
swick[m]: as an individual wayland developer, not a gnome rep, do you have any reason to NACK it?
<JoshuaAshton>
I mean Gnome has had half a year to make an official position about the protocol that links a few wl_buffers to a xdg_toplevel at this point...
<JoshuaAshton>
It's getting a bit silly at this point
<emersion>
and it's not like i just said that i intend to merge out of the blue
<emersion>
activity has resumed a few weeks ago and ACKs have been accumulating
cool110 has joined #wayland
cool110 is now known as Guest7384
nniro_ has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
nniro has joined #wayland
Guest7360 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Guest7384 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
caveman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
cool110_ has joined #wayland
caveman has joined #wayland
cool110_ is now known as Guest7385
<Company>
that whole protocol is cute
<Company>
500 comments and then that's the result
<JoshuaAshton>
We'll have bike storage for the whole of Europe by the time it's out.
<JoshuaAshton>
The new governmental plan to reduce fossil fuel pollution and increase air quality is simply more Wayland bikeshedding :D
<Company>
at least we finally get the icon-theme spec into it, now that we decided we likely want to get rid of it
<emersion>
can always extend with its replacement later
<emersion>
if any
<swick[m]>
and status updates via icons will come back! amazing!
<swick[m]>
there is never a good way to go from more features to less features
<swick[m]>
that's why the whole X11 to wayland transition is so painful
<emersion>
you are free to not implement it, and you are free to ignore the pxiel buffers
<swick[m]>
that's not how this works and you know it
<Company>
it's also great that the compositor tells you the size it wants but not the scale
<Company>
but you can then provide a scale with your buffer!
<emersion>
Company: the reason is explained
<emersion>
in the 500 comments
<swick[m]>
everything is explained. doesn't mean it makes sense.
<Company>
not a fractional one though, because fractional ones weren't the thing yet
<Company>
I don't care much about the protocol anyway
<JoshuaAshton>
If you have gripes with the xml, why not post your comments on the protocol instead of just making passive aggressive comments on #wayland?
<Company>
it's a cute playground to keep people busy though
<JoshuaAshton>
Wow, that's so fucking rude, wtf
<swick[m]>
but saying everyone is bikeshedding is not rude?
<Company>
You haven't heard me being fucking rude yet
<swick[m]>
and to answer the question why not earlier: because our concerns got ignored and everyone just moved on to more productive things
<emersion>
alright, let's stop here
<swick[m]>
it's hard to continue engaging when your concerns are not taken seriously
<swick[m]>
and this is not out of the blue either. we voiced our concerns early on.
<Company>
I don't think the whole process works, because if something ends up with 500 comments it's a mess
mripard has quit [Quit: mripard]
Company was kicked from #wayland by emersion [Company]
<swick[m]>
that's one way to handle critisism
<emersion>
that's one way to handle rude comments
<swick[m]>
no offense, but you're view here is very much clouded
<emersion>
just FYI, i was not the one to suggest a kick
<swick[m]>
then more than one people are really bad at handling criticism
<emersion>
now, let's just move on
<swick[m]>
easy to say when you have all the power to decide when the time is to move on
<swick[m]>
but sure
<emersion>
it is time to move on when discussions go out of hand
<swick[m]>
just keep in mind that this isn't how you build relationships
<swick[m]>
and only makes the situation worse
nerdopolis has joined #wayland
<swick[m]>
I'm honestly really sad to see that wayland has become a place where people try to force some protocols in, instead of trying to come up with a solution that works for everyone.
<swick[m]>
I'd rather not NACK anything, but when all concerns get ignored and there is no attempt made to understand each other and come up with a solution for everyone, then there isn't much else to do.
vyivel has left #wayland [#wayland]
d_ed[m] has joined #wayland
<d_ed[m]>
It shouldn't be a place where some people can deliberately stonewall forever either.
<swick[m]>
that you that some members are stonewalling things is really sad
<swick[m]>
*think
<daniels>
enough.
<daniels>
I’ll clear this tomorrow
vyivel has joined #wayland
tzimmermann has quit []
nerdopolis has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
IMTheNachoMan has joined #wayland
nerdopolis has joined #wayland
<daniels>
there is so much in this that is so far out of line. the disrespect is incredible, and there is no way for anything productive to happen whilst people are just firing pot shots at others from (semi-)hidden grievances. I’ll clear +m in the European morning, but if there is anything close to a repeat of this then it will be a kick instead. be productive or don’t speak. thanks.
<daniels>
(the same applies to MR comments btw)
cool110 has joined #wayland
cool110 is now known as Guest7393
nerdopolis has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Guest7385 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
nerdopolis has joined #wayland
nerdopolis has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
rv1sr has quit []
nazarewk[m] has quit []
privacy has quit []
MatthiasK[m] has joined #wayland
coldfeet has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Brainium has joined #wayland
nniro has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
sima has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
nniro has joined #wayland
lsd|2 has joined #wayland
lsd|2 has quit []
lsd|2 has joined #wayland
mvlad has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nniro_ has joined #wayland
nniro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]