ChanServ changed the topic of #asahi-dev to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | Non-development talk: #asahi | General development | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi-dev
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<nickchan>
has anyone checked whether m1n1 boots with a macOS 15 beta stub on M2? In macOS 15 on M2, SPTM is introduced to the M2 (and ONLY M2, not any of the Pro/Max/Ultra or M3). The XNU would be loaded in EL2 while GL is enabled, this will break everything in m1n1 unless Apple has special logic when flat arm64 executables are specified in kmutil.
<nickchan>
Also under SPTM, XNU cannot ever run with MMU disabled, as it is no longer physically contiguous in memory.
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<jannau>
I'd say it's very unlikely that anyone has tried. looking at newer stubs only makes sense for new device support due to the firmware dependencies
<chadmed>
m1n1 does not boot on sonoma no
<jannau>
is SPTM active in permissive security?
<chadmed>
no idea, this was on j314 so is it even a thing there
<chadmed>
(i did do the usual steps of disabling sip and bputil -nkcas etc)
<jannau>
sonoma on M3
<jannau>
boots without obvious issues (ignoring the missing hw support)
<chadmed>
hm ill try again next time i need the hv
<jannau>
macos15 is sequoia
<sven>
what’s SPTM?
<nickchan>
SPTM stands for Secure Page Table Monitor, it is a PPL replacement but unlike PPL it is not part of the kernel image
<nickchan>
it has the highest privilege in macOS, just like PPL
<nickchan>
the fact that it is not in the kernel image is the problem since the code execution primitive we have on apple silicon is being able to replace that
<sven>
I would expect that there’s some way to skip that in permissive security but would still be interesting to check that
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<nickchan>
A15-A17: SPTM introduced in iOS 17; M4: SPTM launched with iPadOS 17.5; M2: SPTM introduced in iOS 18/macOS 15
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<nickchan>
it is expected that it will eventually be introduced to M1/A14+
<jannau>
sounds like it is part of the exclave handling present for tons of intersting devices in the ipad pro m4 ADT
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<nickchan>
yeah every exception level is used now GL2: SPTM; EL2: XNU; GL1: ExclaveCore; EL1: Guest Kernel; GL0: ExclaveOS; EL0: macOS userland
<nickchan>
need SPTM as the hypervisor to run Exclave
<nickchan>
chadmed: sptm is not a thing yet on j314 since it is the m1 pro and for mac it is on M2 on macOS 15 and nothing else
<nickchan>
it is all an enginnering time thing that it is not on other devices yet since for SPTM to be a functioning hypervisor there is a lot of stuff beyond renaming PPL to SPTM
<nickchan>
like moving Core Bringup to it
<nickchan>
and this order of things getting SPTM makes sense when you consider iOS as the most important to apple, followed by iPadOS, then macOS; and that newer devices are more important than older ones.
<sven>
either way, we can’t really run Linux under SPTM so there better be a way to skip all that ;)
<sven>
hrm, the GL2 init happens before that and i'd expect that to already fail if this SPTM thing was running
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<martinr>
Ok, I just managed to get initial VDM support added to tipd (i.e. just the reboot command working for now). I might need some input from somone on best practices re. interfaces (currently exposed via sysfs), as this is my first attempt at driver code.
<martinr>
there are other minutiae: currently tipd does not support resetting the cd321x. do we now send the unlock command on initialization and enable this functionality?
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<nickchan>
jannau: someone said running a raw image should be without sptm, so maybe sptm is not running after all
<nickchan>
they also said that only macho boot objects should be ran with sptm
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<kettenis>
ah, but we support both and some of us may still be in the habit of using macho?
<kettenis>
guess it should only matter for the first-stage m1n1
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<jannau>
martinr: just for reboot/enable UART the sysfs interface seems fine
<jannau>
nickchan: seems like m1n1 get's further than one would expect with sptm
<jannau>
kettenis: this is only for stage1 / kmutil configure boot. I don't think m1n1.macho still works for that since 12.x
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<kettenis>
right
<martinr>
jannau: great thanks, tidying up now
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