ChanServ changed the topic of #asahi-gpu to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | GPU / 3D graphics stack black-box RE and development (NO binary reversing) | Keep things on topic | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi-gpu
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<lina>
robher: I just noticed something... The GPU firmware takes in a bunch of power-related constants as floats, and some of those come from Apple's device tree. And they differ between different hardware platforms using the same SoC...
<lina>
I take it dtc does not support floats... would you be okay with adding that?
<lina>
Otherwise we'd have to specify them as raw hex which is not great...
<lina>
The other issue is that of course the kernel can't actually operate on the floats, but it might need to in some cases. Though we might be able to just pre-compute any dependent values and put them in the DT, hopefully it's not that many.
<lina>
In that case though, it would be useful if dtc also supported operating on floats so we don't have to hardcode the result of the computations...
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<robher>
lina: The kernel doesn't take floats either (except in some isolated spots).
<robher>
In past cases, we just use strings.
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<lina>
robher: The kernel can just treat them as u32s, but they are floats, and they need to be floats when we pass them to the GPU
<lina>
If we used strings then the kernel would need an integer-only string to float parser...
<lina>
The way the driver does it is all the non-DT float constants are specified as floats, but are converted to u32s at compile time, so there is no float code at runtime
<lina>
But we need some data to come from the DT, so we need to get float data in there in a way that the kernel can eventually turn it into a real float32 bit pattern, even if it doesn't call it that.
<lina>
Then the remaining issue is the places that might need math to compute something rather than pass it straight through, but I don't know how big that problem is right now, so we might be able to get away with just copying data from the DT unmodified.
<lina>
If I do end up needing to do math in the kernel, it's probably only going to be add/sub/mul/div, and if it comes down to that I can *probably* write some little integer-only implementations of that? It doesn't have to handle any corner cases so it doesn't have to be fully IEEE754 compliant.
<jannau>
I wonder if the kernel's soft-float implementation (in include/math-emu) could be used if there's need for float math in the kernel
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<lina>
jannau: Ah, I didn't realize that existed as a stand-alone module like that!
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<lina>
I think that would work, I just need to add it to the Rust helpers.c and export helpers for add/sub/mul/div, then I can expose it as a type in Rust with proper operators and everything.
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<robher>
I think math-emu is generally for kernel doing soft float for userspace. I was going to say drivers don't use float, but then it seems there is one: AMD GPU. But that driver is so big, it hasn't been that closely reviewed. So just bury it in 1M LoC and you'll be fine. ;)
<lina>
And I think that part of the code doesn't work properly on ARM... ^^
<lina>
But this is just for initialization, it doesn't have to be fast, and it's just calculating constants so it doesn't have to be fully correct or handle all corner cases.
<lina>
So I don't think I should be trying to use real floats just for this, a little software implementation makes more sense if we need it...
<lina>
I don't know whether a minimal NIH implementation would be better than just pulling in math-emu?
<lina>
"Drivers don't use float" is great and all but when the hardware itself gives you an interface with floats... ^^;
<lina>
(Well, the firmware in this case, but to the kernel it's all the same)
<robher>
Back to dtc, I wouldn't have an issue with supporting float values, but that's ultimately the dtc maintainer's call. That's David Gibson, not me.
<lina>
Ah! Sorry, I didn't know.
<lina>
Well, at least knowing you think it's okay helps ^^
<lina>
I might just implement it then and see how it goes
<robher>
Any idea if flex/bison support parsing floats?
<lina>
I think you would just define the usual grammar for float syntax and then the code would have to parse it?
<lina>
The code could just do atof of course
<lina>
What syntax would you prefer? C-style, like 1.0f? (Trailing f means f32, I don't need f64 but C style would be decimal without the f for that)
<lina>
Could also be a keyword prefix in the style of `/bits/ 64`, like `/float/ 32 <1.0>` or just `/f32/ <1.0>`
<robher>
C-style is fine with me, but that's a little detail David will care about.
<lina>
I guess since /bits/ is already a thing, float vs. double would have to be specified that way anyway, so if it isn't an explicit keyword then anything with a . would be parsed as a float of whatever the current bitness
<robher>
Yeah, that would probably be more consistent and avoid dealing with '/bits/ 64 <1.0f>'
<robher>
BTW, 'mount-matrix' is the case of float strings, but it looks like all the users don't support fractions so far.
<lina>
Looks like that just gets exposed via sysfs, the kernel never parses it?
<lina>
See iio_show_mount_matrix()
<lina>
So it does support arbitrary floats, and even arbitrary invalid strings, since it doesn't try to parse them ^^
<lina>
I think that makes sense if it's just going into sysfs, yeah...
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<Sobek[m]>
I think rust has soft floats lying around too, it might be possible to see with rust on Linux if there’s a way to get that enabled.
<phire>
really the linux kernel should have a softfloat implementation for in-kernel use
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<alyssa>
robher: IIRC there's a GSoC project right now cleaning up amdgpu's floating points
<alyssa>
or just complaining about them
<alyssa>
either way
<alyssa>
both good things
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<alyssa>
looks like the project was KUnit, maybe I'm mixing up my memories about floats
<robher>
Google Summer of Complaining. Sign me up.
<alyssa>
Hahaha
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