ChanServ changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | General project discussion | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<chadmed>
j_ey: i really wish people would just use twitlonger or literally any web platform that is actually conducive to long-form posting rather than 500 quadrillion threaded tweets...
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<chadmed>
hmm oldmate seems to imply in the fourth-to-last tweet that booting from external media was nixed specifically for security concerns. of course, most macos users will not care about this and thats all apple cares about but it seems like a very overzealous approach to platform security that actively impedes very useful functionality
<chadmed>
then again, apples MO has always been actively impeding functionality when it gets in the way of form. it just reminds me of paranoid nutcases that deny the existence of hardware trust roots because IBM wont give them the POWER10 Verilog
<MTecknology>
It's almost surprising that they don't deny the existence of hardware
<chadmed>
apple as a company seems to be rapidly changing. its no longer 10% product and 90% marketing, its more like 51% product and 49% marketing
<alyssa>
🍏
<alyssa>
j_ey: taking a peak at your cherry pick of corellium pinctrl
<alyssa>
(would like to cherrypick it into my pcie init series)
<MTecknology>
I should take another stab at a debian installation now that I have some free time and the usb-c hub.
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<alyssa>
j_ey: "Apple GPIO must have at least one IRQ" uh-oh
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<alyssa>
nvm, that's u-boot silliness
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<marcan>
chadmed: the UX is that booting from external media works, they just do it by copying the kernel/boot stuff to the internal disk
<marcan>
it doesn't support it behind the scenes for security reasons, but you can still have an OS installed on external media and it "works"
<marcan>
all their design decisions here make sense from a security perspective, and help us too
<marcan>
installing a custom kernel does not actually reduce security, that's just their terminology; it's still secureboot and you can't replace that custom kernel without authenticating again
<marcan>
which means we can have Linux secureboot too
<marcan>
(with our own trust keys for the rest of the boot chain, or whatever the user wants to use, etc)
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<krbtgt>
it also reduces iBoot's attack profile
<krbtgt>
all it needs to do is look at NVMe
<krbtgt>
not whatever USB dinguses exist
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<chadmed>
su
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<j_ey>
alyssa: got it working? that error indicates a missing interrupt-parent
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<alyssa>
j_ey: yeah, I had messed up my DT
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<hramrach>
it also means that if your NVMe dies you can't boot at all. No way to install OS.
<alyssa>
Wonder if some suit is counting on that...
<hramrach>
there is no problem, all you have to do is buy a preimaged medium from Apple. MS did not get away with this on PCs but it did on ARM, and This is on ARM as well
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<j_ey>
hramrach: are you sure DFU doesnt help here?
<alyssa>
j_ey: It's almost like there's something about Arm computers
<alyssa>
I mean hramrach ;-P
<hramrach>
don't know what DFU is
<hramrach>
anyway, they talk about creating administrator account to disable secure boot
<hramrach>
so you can not make it boot your OS securely but you can probably disable teh security at least
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<sorear>
DFU is what lets you boot over USB from another computer even if 100% of the flash is zeroed
<alyssa>
device firmware upgrade
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<sven>
https://github.com/AsahiLinux/linux/tree/dart/4kpgsize if anyone wants some data corruption using a 4k pagesize kernel. (on a more serious note, it probably works but i still need to triple-check the changes in that one WIP commit and test if this still works with 16k pages)
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<MTecknology>
hramrach: IIUC, The reduced boot security is only on the second OS, and that OS only exists as a bootloader loader for m1n1.
<MTecknology>
regarding failed NVMe... Apple doesn't really keep their obvious (very fast) planned obsolescence a secret. I would be quite shocked if some of those cheap-to-replace-if-you-can-solder failures aren't specifically designed for the same thing.
* alyssa
sighs
<sven>
ah yes, the "very fast planned obsolescence" where they deliver updates for 5+ year old devices
* MTecknology
is also quite jaded and [blah blah blah]. (... never actually pressed enter on this one)
<MTecknology>
but, eh... yeah, 5 years doesn't seem very long at all.
<krbtgt>
apple picks very good nand, so i'm not very worried about that
<krbtgt>
and with how low the bar for mobile is, >5 years is excellent
<MTecknology>
Except for the one time I had an iphone, all my phones have lasted at least 5 years, usually more, and only get retired when I manage to do something like roll a heavy ATV on top of myself.
<alyssa>
krbtgt: that's the bigger issue indeed
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<krbtgt>
MTecknology: with software updates?
<alyssa>
maybe I don't take care of my stuff but I've had a /lot/ of parts fail over the years. and then lack of right to repair means the obvious answer is.. err.. buy a new model :(
<MTecknology>
yeah, one of them needed to follow an open source branch for updates, but that was a trivial switch.
<krbtgt>
well, the nice part is apple stuff gets official updates for years
<MTecknology>
"one of them"
<MTecknology>
Droid Turbo 2, IIRC
<MTecknology>
Speaking of those updates... what about the ones that make the device less usable?
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<dottedmag>
MTecknology: the proper venue to talk about it will probably be your senator or EU parliamentary or whoever else who is in position to legislate longer mandatory warranty periods, not random people on Internet.
<MTecknology>
How long ago was "batterygate"?
<MTecknology>
That feels like a million years ago now
<krbtgt>
that was a case of the messenger getting shot that yes! batteries decay and the system needs to deal with it somehow
<krbtgt>
and yes, dottedmag is right
<sorear>
adding an option to the system preferences is "making it less usable"?
<MTecknology>
dottedmag: Who would I bug about what? The updates for the phones I purchase are fine.
<MTecknology>
The complaint I usually hear dictating new phones is battery life, not updates. That's also never been an issue on anything other than the one iphone I had and one phone with a defective battery that was replaced under warranty.
<MTecknology>
(this one magical trick will increase your battery charge time by hours and it's lifespan by weeks :: get rid of facebook apps)
<alyssa>
"Passed 100/124" i'll take it :-p
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<alyssa>
i didn't need those other 24 tests anyway
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<j_ey>
in my adt I have 'interrupts = [13, 100663297]'
<j_ey>
that big number looks odd?
<alyssa>
quite
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<sven>
j_ey: 0x6000001
<j_ey>
that still looks too big :P
<sven>
but less odd :)
<sven>
it's either two numbers or some flag i guess
<j_ey>
im wondering if it encodes moreinfo
<j_ey>
yeah
<j_ey>
i also wondered what OIPG was for a bit
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<sven>
:D
<alyssa>
sven: If it were two numbers, I guess I'd expect the 6 to be aligned to the 16-bit place
<alyssa>
i.e. 0x60001
<alyssa>
though I guess 24:8 is possible too
<sven>
true
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<j_ey>
Im trying to understand how the linux dts "cs-gpios = <&gpio 49 0>;" (for spi3) can be derived from whats in the adt
<sven>
for which device is that?
<j_ey>
the keyboard
<sven>
can you post the ADT for that somewhere? i only have one from my mini