ChanServ changed the topic of #dri-devel to: <ajax> nothing involved with X should ever be unable to find a bar
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<DemiMarie> Thoughts on all the vulns found by H26Forge?
<alyssa> zmike: when will we be able to run lavapipe on zink
<alyssa> for vulkan on vulkan layering
<alyssa> looking forward for the benchmarks comparing lavapipe-on-zink to venus
* zmike swats alyssa
<zmike> bad
<alyssa> >:)
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<mslusarz> Venemo: sort of related to MR 22222, I'm considering submitting this soon: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mslusarz/mesa/-/commits/mesh-wgs (either 5 or 7 commits, I'm not sure yet, because I get weird perf numbers)
<Venemo> mslusarz: I'll take a look
<Venemo> mslusarz: interesting, I think I can use that too on AMD GFX10.3, though won't be needed once I have time to do the full implementation for GFX11
<Venemo> mslusarz: feel free to ping me when you open a MR, I can help review the nir parts at least
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<Venemo> mslusarz: so, speaking of 22222 do you think it would be better to add a "uint32_t mesh_dispatch_dimensions[3]" field instead of "bool linear_dispatch"?
<mslusarz> Venemo: I'll take a closer look on Monday
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<DemiMarie> What is the most easily secured layer of the graphics stack? Is it the Vulkan API layer, the kernel UAPI layer, or some sort of mediated passthrough?
<HdkR> Vulkan API can't be considered secure. Applications could just ship their own and talk directly to a device. Needs to be kernel uapi
<HdkR> Also some hardware enforcement of mapped memory so you can't leak data of course
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<DemiMarie> HdkR: in the use-cases I am thinking of, applications *cannot* talk directly to a device, because the device is in a different virtual machine.
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<HdkR> Even with something like virgl or venus you could still feed invalid data through it, so your API needs to be robust against that regardless
<DemiMarie> Which API?
<HdkR> kernel uapi
<DemiMarie> Oh indeed. I meant as part of a defense in depth strategy.
<DemiMarie> Also the AMD drivers at least have a known vuln (infoleak) in the kernel UAPI, which I presume will be fixed when native context support is added.
<HdkR> Security in the Vulkan API doesn't really make sense. Someone doing something nefarious can just sidestep it
<HdkR> and will just sidestep it
<DemiMarie> On Xen, for instance, one could run virgl or venus in the isolated stubdomain that provides device emulation services, while the stubdomain itself uses virtio-GPU native contexts to talk to the GPU (which might itself be a SR-IOV virtual function)
<DemiMarie> HdkR: in e.g. WebGPU or Venus, the attacker cannot sidestep it. In the case of Venus, for example, is the browser’s responsibility to conform to valid Vulkan API usage, but the browser can’t reasonably be expected guard against a malicious shader that exploits a use-after-free in the NIR optimizer to gain code execution.
<DemiMarie> (except by sandboxing the GPU process)
<DemiMarie> s/of Venus/of WebGPU/ duh
<HdkR> Web is a bit of a special case I guess
<HdkR> Luckily there isn't a WebVulkan yet
<DemiMarie> That is what WebGPU is
<HdkR> hah
<DemiMarie> “hah”?
<HdkR> I guess web is saved that it can't just call ioctl :)
<DemiMarie> Same for Venus and VirGL
<HdkR> You can ioctl the venus and virgl virtual devices though, so that needs to be robust
<DemiMarie> Oh yeah
<HdkR> Since it goes through virtgpu
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<robclark> DemiMarie: kernel uabi needs to be sound.. if there are bugs, they need to be fixed.. api virtualization won't really save you when the api (cl and to some extent vk) gives shaders access to pointers
<robclark> (plus, I wouldn't really want to rely on shader compiler as a security boundary)
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<DemiMarie> robclark: Indeed the kernel uabi is unquestionably a security boundary. My question was if there were any in the userspace stack.
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<jenatali> DUO Labs: You're not authed with NickServ so your messages didn't make it to IRC
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<DUOLabs[m]> Ok should work now: Does anyone have any experience working with the internals of the Venus driver? I want to know where does Venus outputs its textures to. I keep seeing references to udmabuf, but that can't be true, as it wouldn't be installed on most user's machines.