ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
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<TimRex>
Morning all. Quick question about wayland surface formats.. for any given surface returned by wl_compositor_create_surface(), how would I go about determining the pixel format for that surface?
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<TimRex>
I'm encountering a scenario where eglChooseConfig() returns framebuffer configurations that are not valid for the native window surface
<TimRex>
That is.. eglCreateWindowSurface() fails with debug message indicating "Unsupported surfacetype/colorspace configuration"
<TimRex>
I can spin through the remaining configs until I get a match, but it would be nice to direct eglChooseConfig with something more precise based on the surface format provided by the compositor
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<WhyNotHugo>
content-type-v1 has types (photo,video,game). Isn't "text" an obvious additional missing choice here?
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<emersion>
it mirrors the HDMI spec, IIRC
<emersion>
if there is a use-case for another type, can be added
<kennylevinsen>
I guess for stuff like auto low-latency mode
<pq>
the xml mentions scaling modes, latency and image processing
<pq>
New types can be added if there is some idea what a compositor could do with it. If HDMI does not have a code point to forward the information to a TV, then what else could a compositor do?
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<zamundaaa[m]>
WhyNotHugo: I mentioned that as a possibility in the MR adding it, but left it up for later
<zamundaaa[m]>
I wouldn't be opposed to having it fwiw
<pq>
I'm curious, how would you handle it?
<zamundaaa[m]>
There's two use cases I can think of
<zamundaaa[m]>
one is the feature that phones have, where they make e-book reader content aggressively follow the whitepoint of your surroundings
<zamundaaa[m]>
the other is picking an up/downscaling algorithm that works better for text. Might be quite niche, but when you mirror a display to a projector, not that niche perhaps
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<pq>
Interesting.
<pq>
Would either need to assume a black&white or gray-scale image to work well?
<zamundaaa[m]>
For best results, probably
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<zamundaaa[m]>
Text on a background image might be harder to process for the scaling algorithms. Then again, it's also harder to process for humans in general
<pq>
what about a code editor with colored syntax highlighting?
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<pq>
Maybe the category shouldn't be "text" but "black&white text and art"?
<pq>
line art?
<zamundaaa[m]>
Colored syntax highlighting should work fine. I'm not an expert on text scaling, but I would assume it works mostly on contrast instead of just black and white
<pq>
alright
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<emersion>
does anyone have an ICC profile at hand with a multiProcessElementsType?
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<pq>
emersion, Weston test suite generates some very simple ones at runtime.
<emersion>
i'm looking specifically for the most complcated ones :P
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<emersion>
complicated*
<pq>
I don't think there is an upper limit on complexity
<pq>
the number of MPE-type elements in a uint32_t
<pq>
*is
<emersion>
oh, sorry, i misunderstood
<emersion>
i thought you were saying that Weston had simple ICC files
<pq>
Weston test suite generates some very simple (2 elements) MPE-based ICC files at runtime.
<emersion>
cool, maybe i'll try to have a look at that then
<pq>
it uses LittleCMS for that
<pq>
build_lcms_clut_profile_output() is the one crafting them
<pq>
specifically one parametric curve set + one 3D LUT
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<pq>
FYI, Marti and Graeme think that a shaper (per-channel 1D LUT) + 3D LUT should be enough for approximating any color transformation, if you optimize both together for the pipeline to approximate.
<pq>
Personally I'm not that optimistic.
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<emersion>
ah, i was wondering about that
<emersion>
mstoeckl_: ^
<emersion>
pq, you think how many more elements would be needed?
<pq>
It depends on the transformation.
<emersion>
pq, is there an optimizer already?
<pq>
I don't have an optimizer for that.
<pq>
If your input space is optical, then a uniformly sampled 1D LUT might need far too many elements.
<pq>
don't mind the BPC stuff in the beginning, the discussion departs soon enough
<pq>
Currently in Weston we let LittleCMS produce a cmsPipeline object, which is essentially a chain of mathematical operations (cmsStage). Then we have an optimizer that repeatedly combines adjacent matrices together, and does the same with curve sets when possible.
<pq>
Once nothing can be merged anymore, it attempts to fit the remaining pipeline into our fixed-function color-pipeline representation.
<pq>
That fixed-function color pipeline is roughly following KMS design, and has a GL-renderer implementation as well.
<emersion>
i see, what does the fixed ppelne look like?
<emersion>
LUT, matrix, LUT then?
<pq>
more or less, yeah, so far
<pq>
we use one such pipeline for input-to-blend transformation, and another for blend-to-output
<pq>
Luckily inverse EOTF only appear in blend-to-output pipelines, and usually alone in there, so you could implement that separately analytically, and maybe, just maybe the LUT combination is enough for the input-to-blend side.
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<pq>
There is that white paper from Marti Maria mentioned in the email thread, where he explains how to optimize the LUT combination.
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<pq>
Anyway, best to read though the email thread, and make your own conclusions.
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<emersion>
hm, thanks
<pq>
I guess the BPC discussion is a good note of the quirkyness of ICC handling. :-)
<pq>
vaxry, why is a KMS atomic commit ioctl hanging? A kernel bug or a GPU crash, probably.
<emersion>
this is the proprietary NVIDIA driver
* emersion
stops looking
<pq>
oh, blame them then
<vaxry>
oh, havent even noticed
<vaxry>
my bad, sorry!
<pq>
it's definitely not userspace's fault in any case
<vaxry>
yeah I was weirded out by this
<pq>
Even if it was a FOSS driver, atomic commit getting permanently stuck is a kernel bug. On a GPU crash or other serious error it could take some timeout (seconds? a minute?) to return.
<pq>
(or faulty hardware as always)
<WhyNotHugo>
I mentioned the "text" variant content-type-v1 mostly thinking of eink displays.
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<kennylevinsen>
WhyNotHugo: e-ink displays are pretty low-level, with the implementer controlling the exact waveforms used to set pixels and handle clearing. A controller could use different waveforms for text, but without a high-level standardized interface that's all extremely implementation-specific...
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<swick[m]>
pq: so, I think I'm done with all the linting for now :P
<swick[m]>
was quite interesting and I would definitely add some of that stuff for new projects
<swick[m]>
let's see how good all of that is in practice though...
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