ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
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<TimRex> Morning all. Quick question about wayland surface formats.. for any given surface returned by wl_compositor_create_surface(), how would I go about determining the pixel format for that surface?
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<TimRex> I'm encountering a scenario where eglChooseConfig() returns framebuffer configurations that are not valid for the native window surface
<TimRex> That is.. eglCreateWindowSurface() fails with debug message indicating "Unsupported surfacetype/colorspace configuration"
<TimRex> I can spin through the remaining configs until I get a match, but it would be nice to direct eglChooseConfig with something more precise based on the surface format provided by the compositor
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<wlb> weston Issue #881 closed \o/ (app_id and title are set after setting surface id https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/881)
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<wlb> wayland-protocols/main: Sebastian Wick * cursor-shape-v1: Does not advertises the list of supported cursors https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/commit/aac8841f8298 staging/cursor-shape/cursor-shape-v1.xml
<wlb> wayland-protocols Merge request !289 merged \o/ (cursor-shape-v1: Does not advertises the list of supported cursors https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/289)
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<wlb> wayland-protocols/main: Simon Ser * xdg-shell: recommend against drawing decorations when tiled https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/commit/a5536f9a8cd7 stable/xdg-shell/xdg-shell.xml
<wlb> wayland-protocols Merge request !257 merged \o/ (xdg-shell: recommend against drawing decorations when tiled https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/257)
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<WhyNotHugo> content-type-v1 has types (photo,video,game). Isn't "text" an obvious additional missing choice here?
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<emersion> it mirrors the HDMI spec, IIRC
<emersion> if there is a use-case for another type, can be added
<kennylevinsen> I guess for stuff like auto low-latency mode
<pq> the xml mentions scaling modes, latency and image processing
<pq> New types can be added if there is some idea what a compositor could do with it. If HDMI does not have a code point to forward the information to a TV, then what else could a compositor do?
<wlb> weston Merge request !1390 merged \o/ (Add support to some color curves in weston_color_curve https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/merge_requests/1390)
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<zamundaaa[m]> WhyNotHugo: I mentioned that as a possibility in the MR adding it, but left it up for later
<zamundaaa[m]> I wouldn't be opposed to having it fwiw
<pq> I'm curious, how would you handle it?
<zamundaaa[m]> There's two use cases I can think of
<zamundaaa[m]> one is the feature that phones have, where they make e-book reader content aggressively follow the whitepoint of your surroundings
<zamundaaa[m]> the other is picking an up/downscaling algorithm that works better for text. Might be quite niche, but when you mirror a display to a projector, not that niche perhaps
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<pq> Interesting.
<pq> Would either need to assume a black&white or gray-scale image to work well?
<zamundaaa[m]> For best results, probably
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<zamundaaa[m]> Text on a background image might be harder to process for the scaling algorithms. Then again, it's also harder to process for humans in general
<pq> what about a code editor with colored syntax highlighting?
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<pq> Maybe the category shouldn't be "text" but "black&white text and art"?
<pq> line art?
<zamundaaa[m]> Colored syntax highlighting should work fine. I'm not an expert on text scaling, but I would assume it works mostly on contrast instead of just black and white
<pq> alright
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<emersion> does anyone have an ICC profile at hand with a multiProcessElementsType?
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<pq> emersion, Weston test suite generates some very simple ones at runtime.
<emersion> i'm looking specifically for the most complcated ones :P
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<emersion> complicated*
<pq> I don't think there is an upper limit on complexity
<pq> the number of MPE-type elements in a uint32_t
<pq> *is
<emersion> oh, sorry, i misunderstood
<emersion> i thought you were saying that Weston had simple ICC files
<pq> Weston test suite generates some very simple (2 elements) MPE-based ICC files at runtime.
<emersion> cool, maybe i'll try to have a look at that then
<pq> it uses LittleCMS for that
<pq> build_lcms_clut_profile_output() is the one crafting them
<pq> specifically one parametric curve set + one 3D LUT
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<pq> FYI, Marti and Graeme think that a shaper (per-channel 1D LUT) + 3D LUT should be enough for approximating any color transformation, if you optimize both together for the pipeline to approximate.
<pq> Personally I'm not that optimistic.
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<emersion> ah, i was wondering about that
<emersion> mstoeckl_: ^
<emersion> pq, you think how many more elements would be needed?
<pq> It depends on the transformation.
<emersion> pq, is there an optimizer already?
<pq> I don't have an optimizer for that.
<pq> If your input space is optical, then a uniformly sampled 1D LUT might need far too many elements.
<emersion> what is your plan for Weston?
<pq> don't mind the BPC stuff in the beginning, the discussion departs soon enough
<pq> Currently in Weston we let LittleCMS produce a cmsPipeline object, which is essentially a chain of mathematical operations (cmsStage). Then we have an optimizer that repeatedly combines adjacent matrices together, and does the same with curve sets when possible.
<pq> Once nothing can be merged anymore, it attempts to fit the remaining pipeline into our fixed-function color-pipeline representation.
<pq> That fixed-function color pipeline is roughly following KMS design, and has a GL-renderer implementation as well.
<emersion> i see, what does the fixed ppelne look like?
<emersion> LUT, matrix, LUT then?
<pq> more or less, yeah, so far
<pq> we use one such pipeline for input-to-blend transformation, and another for blend-to-output
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<pq> Marti and Greame argue, that this is all useless, and a 3x 1D LUT + 3D LUT is enough.
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<pq> I'm fairly sure that trying to model inverse PQ EOTF as a uniformly distributed 1D LUT is going to be futile, given our findings in https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pq/color-and-hdr/-/blob/main/plots/index.md#transfer_function_lut1d_error_tapspy for the simple gamma 2.2 curve, and assuming that the PQ curve is even more difficult.
<pq> Luckily inverse EOTF only appear in blend-to-output pipelines, and usually alone in there, so you could implement that separately analytically, and maybe, just maybe the LUT combination is enough for the input-to-blend side.
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<pq> There is that white paper from Marti Maria mentioned in the email thread, where he explains how to optimize the LUT combination.
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<pq> Anyway, best to read though the email thread, and make your own conclusions.
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<emersion> hm, thanks
<pq> I guess the BPC discussion is a good note of the quirkyness of ICC handling. :-)
<pq> vaxry, why is a KMS atomic commit ioctl hanging? A kernel bug or a GPU crash, probably.
<emersion> this is the proprietary NVIDIA driver
* emersion stops looking
<pq> oh, blame them then
<vaxry> oh, havent even noticed
<vaxry> my bad, sorry!
<pq> it's definitely not userspace's fault in any case
<vaxry> yeah I was weirded out by this
<pq> Even if it was a FOSS driver, atomic commit getting permanently stuck is a kernel bug. On a GPU crash or other serious error it could take some timeout (seconds? a minute?) to return.
<pq> (or faulty hardware as always)
<WhyNotHugo> I mentioned the "text" variant content-type-v1 mostly thinking of eink displays.
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<kennylevinsen> WhyNotHugo: e-ink displays are pretty low-level, with the implementer controlling the exact waveforms used to set pixels and handle clearing. A controller could use different waveforms for text, but without a high-level standardized interface that's all extremely implementation-specific...
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<swick[m]> pq: so, I think I'm done with all the linting for now :P
<swick[m]> was quite interesting and I would definitely add some of that stuff for new projects
<swick[m]> let's see how good all of that is in practice though...
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