ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
<pq>
zamundaaa[m], what does "borderless fullscreen" mean on Wayland?
<pq>
how could a window be fullscreen without setting the one and only fullscreen state, and if that state is set, then why would there be need to explicitly and separately trigger "no decorations"?
<pq>
or, does "fullscreen with decorations" exist?
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<emersion>
that sounds like maximized
<pq>
that's what I thought too
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<kennylevinsen>
on macOS fullscreen, the full top decorarions and global menu are always available to slide in on demand (which differs from when e.g. browsers just slide in their address bar or tabs on other OS's), but that's the only example I could think of across OS's...
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<pq>
do you mean that "macos fullscreen" would be like "borderless fullscreen" and then in "true fullscreen" the global menu etc. won't appear?
<pq>
if that's something to be supported, sounds like should be an explicit new window state in the axis of floating, maximized, fullscreen with widgets, fullscreen.
<emersion>
i think it's just regular fullscreen, with a system-wide standard way to show the status bar and decorations?
<emersion>
(move pointer to the top edge)
<emersion>
android also has fullscreen swipe from top edge to show the status bar
<pq>
should the client have any say on whether gestures like "move pointer to top" should trigger DE things or not?
<emersion>
and in general a tap on a fullscreen app in android will reveal the status bar and navigation buttons
<pq>
probably not if it's an android game
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<pq>
or any app where tapping is part of the normal usage rather than an escape
<emersion>
yeah, up to the app
<emersion>
gallery and video players behave that way, but other apps don't necessarily
<pq>
sounds like another explicit window state to me, rather than something to do with decorations protocol
<emersion>
the reason I bring it up is that apps have a way to show system UI
<pq>
that might be better
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<emersion>
also in general on android the system UI integrates with the app
<emersion>
app draws behind the system UI, or sets the system UI color etc
<emersion>
(and is aware which parts of the app are covered with system UI)
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<kchibisov>
macOS has 3 fullscreen modes: regular fullscreen which creates a separate workspace(useally called borderless), the one which doesn't create a workspace for it (simple), and the one which does modesetting.
<kchibisov>
I think simple fullscreen allows windows stack on top, while occupying all the area on the workspace (windows has the same concept).
<kchibisov>
Maximize window on macOS doesn't obscure the title bar, while simple fullscreen does.
<kchibisov>
The wayland fullscreen right now looks more like borderless, but maybe borderless they were talking about is some other _borderless_.
<kennylevinsen>
back in the day, it wasn't maximize but "zoom" which did not fill the screen but expanded the window to fit the content. I don't remember if/how that changed once they introduced the fullscreen type that becomes a new workspace
<kennylevinsen>
I feel like a catalogue of window management features per OS would be useful at times
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<pq>
kennylevinsen, at first I read you saying "I feel like a catalogue of features" :-D
<emersion>
lol
<kennylevinsen>
Hah! I suppose that's not a too inaccurate description of my job role at times :P
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<wlb>
weston/main: Loïc Molinari * libweston: Let multiple backends register the Windowed Output API https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/commit/f4c69abc577f frontend/main.c include/libweston/windowed-output-api.h libweston/backend-headless/headless.c libweston/backend-wayland/wayland.c libweston/backend-x11/x11.c
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<zamundaaa[m]>
pq: it's not a thing on Wayland, just a concept from Windows. Some games support a variant of it where you can select a lower resolution though... Making it just a normal boring borderless window
<pq>
oh, so it can be not-fullscreen at all
<pq>
is it supposed to be floating, without letterboxing?
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<JEEB>
it's basically fullscreen by means of window that takes the full size of the desktop
<emersion>
on windows, there is no semantic difference between exclusive fullscreen and borderless fullscreen
<emersion>
only a technical difference
<emersion>
exclusive fullscreen can modeset, borderless fullscreen integrates better with the rest of the desktop
<emersion>
(exclusive fullscreen is somewhat similar to DRM leasing)
<pq>
JEEB, I mean specifically in the case when it's not the full size
<JEEB>
pq: I think what was meant there is that render resolution is lower and yet the window size is full
<JEEB>
so on a 1920x1080 screen you have a 1280x720 render resolution selected in game and that then gets output as a 1920x1080 window
<pq>
no, I mean literally borderless-fullscreen window not covering full screen
<JEEB>
then it's not borderless fullscreen :)
<JEEB>
borderless fullscreen is when a borderless window matches the desktop display
<pq>
so borderless-fullscreen is techincally not fullscreen, it just happens to have the right size sometimes?
<JEEB>
borderless fullscreen is just a name to call fullscreen by means of not calling the exclusive fullscreen APIs.
<pq>
ok
<JEEB>
so if your window fills the whole desktop display then it is borderless fullscreen
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<zamundaaa[m]>
What I meant is that some games have a "borderless" option, which can be different from the actual technical "borderless fullscreen"
<JEEB>
yes you can also have a borderless window of size 1280x720 which of course is not fullscreen in any way or form :)
<pq>
One cannot do that on wayland, because one cannot position the window correctly without making the window actually fullscreen by protocol.
<pq>
yes, very confusing, what's a semantic state and what's API/protocol state
<JEEB>
I think in wayland that would just be a window without decorations
<pq>
and in arbitrary position that cannot be controlled by the app
<JEEB>
on windows the window position has nothing to do with "window that has no decorations" :) I think the only case where the position matters is when you are trying to fill the desktop display with a window without decorations.
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<JEEB>
although it's highly likely that a compositor sees the size request and puts it so that it covers the whole desktop display
<pq>
I wouldn't be so sure of that at all.
<pq>
Is it common to automatically move a window if it spontaneously grows partially off-screen?
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<ifreund>
I certainly dont in my compositor
<vaxry>
I don't even allow the windows to do that >:)
<JEEB>
I was just trying to get specifics about window position out of that, since how you do it in wayland is a separate discussion :)
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<JEEB>
window, window that takes the full desktop display size, application that wants exclusive fullscreen access being the three possible things in windows-land.
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