ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
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<fufexan>
Hello! Is there anyone whom I can talk to about having Hyprland join wayland-protocols? Considering it's the third most used wayland environment on Fedora (based on a recent survey on its subreddit), is fully independent and has an entire ecosystem, I believe it deserves its own seat in wayland-protocols.
<fufexan>
I am one of the members of the HyprWM organization and we have talked about this internally.
<bl4ckb0ne>
create a merge request on wayland-protocols with the `governance:` tag and discussion will happen there
<fufexan>
right, is there anyone open to talk about sponsoring?
<dviola>
wouldn't Vaxri being banned from freedesktop affect that in some way?
<dviola>
Vaxry*
<bl4ckb0ne>
vaxry doesnt have to be the point of contact
<fufexan>
I'm positive that it does not affect the eligiblity of the entire organization, considering it's only one person
<dviola>
I see
<emersion>
i'd recommend starting to get involved in protocol development before asking for a seat
<fufexan>
vaxry used to be involved before he got banned lol
<bl4ckb0ne>
but you're not vaxry
<daniels>
yeah, the ideal scenario is that you get involved and help out: not just shoving your own protocols through, but review submissions from others and help improve them, then someone asks you to vote on something, you say that you aren't a member, everyone's surprised to remember that, and then the vote is a pile of instant '+1 yeah they're really helpful', instead of just coming in cold
<fufexan>
yes, but membership is extended to projects, not individuals. so it should still count
<daniels>
I mean, the MRs and issues are open; there is nothing stopping you from contributing already
<daniels>
(and there are plenty of MRs and issues which need active help)
<pq>
emersion, while I agree with your comment in !366, we'd need a majority vote of NAKs to delay it, and that seems to me unlikely and very harsh. What could be done is to propose changes to the new member acceptance criteria which would come into effect a month from now earliest.
<emersion>
yeah, i don't want to NACK either
<emersion>
i wanted to type this up but then i got distracted with other stuff :/
<emersion>
so indeed, this comes a bit late as well
<emersion>
also, i don't want to gatekeep membership too much
<emersion>
the current policy is nice in that rejecting membership needs a lot of active participationg from other members
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<pq>
maybe what we need is rules for inactive members
<emersion>
def don't want to make it too easy to discard a membership proposal
<emersion>
right, imho there are two issues: inactivity, and trust
<emersion>
if a complete stranger asks for membership, it's a bit surprising to me
<pq>
perhaps, or perhaps they are not strangers to the sponsor
<nickdiego|backjan02[m]>
Hey, thanks for your feedback there emersion! It might be me misunderstanding the docs, though I initially thought the points of contact there would be more kind of a member-related choice than a community well known person. Is that more like a personal interpretation you have about it or a general consensus? If the latter, should we document it better? Furthermore, our idea (from chromium side) would be to rotate internally to
<nickdiego|backjan02[m]>
devote enough time to protocols contributions, so the poc there would be more symbolic the a pratical thing.
<pq>
as for inactivity, maybe something about pinging for voting and not getting any reply?
<emersion>
nickdiego|backjan02[m]: in general members are pinged for voting and such in technical matters
<davidre>
nickdiego | back jan/02: I think the the point here is that the points of contact carry the actual power - saying Nack/ack/rev-by
<emersion>
but i must admit that we really must do better in terms of documentation here
<pq>
I think the points of contact could be just a front who relay all topics to some internal body actually making decisions, relays the results back, but it does complicate and slow down communication.
<pq>
But if project (a company?) wants to work like that, why not?
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<nickdiego|backjan02[m]>
pq: Yeah, that's how I see it too pq, especially because communities have distinct ways of working and sometimes rotation is required/natural depending on how that interacts with a particular project. Though I also agree it might slow things down a bit
<pq>
for bigger projects it kinda has to work like that if they haven't invested the power onto one or two people, and even so, those people may want to consult others
<nickdiego|backjan02[m]>
emersion: we could start with those PoC, or I could even add myself there and after holidays we could revisit it, plmk what sounds more reasonable to you.
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<emersion>
pq: but that's not how e.g. kernel maintainers would work for instance
<emersion>
i really see value in having a direct line of communication with a knowledgeable person, instead of a proxy
<emersion>
especially when it takes time for someone to get to know a project
<emersion>
pq: some members on w-p have a PoC with a "front" and it doesn't work really well imho
<emersion>
these members are mostly in the "inactive" category
<emersion>
nickdiego|backjan02[m]: out of curiosity, do you have plans to upstream more protocols?
<ifreund>
part of zmike's governance reforms was making it possible for projects to have more than 2 points of contact right?
<ifreund>
with the reasoning being that having a few points of contact being inactive isn't a problem if there are 10 of them
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<nickdiego|backjan02[m]>
<emersion> "nickdiego | back jan/02: out..." <- I can't speak on behalf of the whole project, but the idea is at least to contribute from the perspective of the brower as a platform/toolkit for web app developers. There are probably protocols which were designed for Lacros (discontinued now), which could be upstreamed at some point. Lately we've been actively involved in at least 3 fronts, text-input, desktop features such as
<nickdiego|backjan02[m]>
toplevel-drag/session management/picture-in-picture and test automation, afaict
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<emersion>
cool, thanks
<emersion>
these last 3 fronts we def need any help we can get :)
<emersion>
nickdiego|backjan02[m]: my own preference would be to update the folks as they are rotated
<emersion>
it should be relatively easy to update MEMBERS.md
<emersion>
that said, some others seem to be fine with "front" p-o-c
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