07:00 <ncopa> cool

07:11 <mps> you reminded me about question which kernel distributions should use, one with GPU or without it

07:12 <mps> what is advice from asahi develoopers about this?

08:03 <ncopa> i had the impression that asahi devs were not happy with downstream distros building work-in-progress kernels, and should stick to whatever kernel asahi uses. eg https://github.com/AsahiLinux/PKGBUILDs/tree/main/linux-asahi

08:04 <ncopa> and that the edge kernel there is somewhat experimental

08:05 <ncopa> so i had the impression that asahi devs prefers that downstream distros stick to the non edge kernel config?

08:06 <mps> no, edge kernel have only extra module enabled, DRM_ASAHI, i.e. gpu

08:06 <mps> afaik all distros except alpine have this enabled

08:06 <mps> I didn't looked at fedora

08:08 <mps> ncopa: and asahi kernel is experimental as such, till all be merged to mainline (which will not be soon)

08:08 <ncopa> yes, ofc

08:09 <ncopa> i had the impression that asahi devs were unhappy with downstream distros building kernels and users reporting issues on those kernels. so i kinda stepped back a bit for alpine, waiting for things to stabilize

08:10 <ncopa> i dont want create extra uneccesary work for the devs

08:10 <ncopa> the DRM_ASAHI module is some what challenging, as it requires rust, and you cannot just pick any version of rust and hoe things will work

08:11 <mps> well, but other distro maintainers already did so you will not add much issues

08:11 <ncopa> it needs to be a very specific version of rust

08:11 <mps> that is our (alpine) problem

08:11 <ncopa> which usually does not correspond with whatever rust version is available in distro

08:11 <ncopa> what is an alpine problem?

08:12 <mps> rust version, we don't have versioned packages in arhive

08:13 <mps> usually we have only newest version

08:14 <ncopa> i disagree that that is an alpine problem

08:14 <mps> hm, sorry if I missunderstand this

08:15 <ncopa> we do the same with basically every other language. only a single version of gcc, python, perl, go, zig, etc

08:15 <ncopa> but rust is "special"

08:16 <mps> (not relevant here but I wanted to 'keep' some older crystal versions)

08:18 <mps> I solved this problem for building asahi kernel with GPU by having local branch with versioned rust

08:18 <ncopa> anyway. i was under the impression that all other distros were shipping stuff that upstream asahi devs would have preferred that they didnt. thats why i havent pushed experimental kernel to alpine

08:19 <ncopa> but ofc, if asahi devs wants us to get the experimental features out to users, we can try put some effort there

08:19 <chadmed> ncopa, mps: as of recently r4l works with up to date versions of bindgen and rust

08:19 <ncopa> nice

08:20 <chadmed> also to answer the original question, if your kernel distribution infrastructure allows it, just build two kernels like we have for upstream

08:20 <mps> chadmed: currently it works but we are not sure will the next version work

08:20 <ncopa> chadmed: and if we only want ship a single kernel, which one do we pick?

08:21 <chadmed> if youre okay keeping track of mesa UAPI changes youre probably best off shipping the gpu+dcp kernel at this point

08:21 <mps> aside not, asahi kernel works very fine for nearly two years for me

08:21 <mps> s/not/note/

08:22 <ncopa> has worked great for me too

08:22 <ncopa> chadmed: thank you for that! will have a look at it

08:23 <j`ey> Fedora ships GPU enabled kernel by default

08:23 <j`ey> so I think it;s fine to do that

08:23 <mps> iirc chadmed is gentoo maintainer

08:24 <chadmed> yup

08:25 <mps> j`ey: do you still use alpine or you switched to fedora (sorry I forgot though I remember you talked about this earlier)

08:25 <chadmed> i dont have most of these issues because i just ship the sources and its up to users to build their kernel with whatever options they want :P

08:26 <ncopa> heh

08:27 <j`ey> mps: I switched now

08:28 <mps> hope I will remember this time

11:01 <janneg> r4l/asahi is broken with rust-1.73.0 with no obvious fix. fedora-asahi solves this by having rust-kernel which is an older rust package under a new name. it conflicts with the rust package and I expect it's only used for the distro kernel build

11:03 <janneg> I don't think the dcp, asahi and sleep are anymore considered highly experimental things. the main reason why the alarm based distro still ships an edge kernel is that changing it is effort and risk breaking systems

11:31 <mps> what means r4l

11:31 <psykose> rust for linux

11:31 <mps> ah, thanks

12:38 <sam_> we still really need to slot rust in gentoo

12:38 <sam_> the kernel stuff makes it pretty essential

12:38 <sam_> fortunately it should be somewhat easy