marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | Not ready for end users / self contained install yet. Soon. | General project discussion | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<catphish>
aww came here to ask if asahi was useful for end users yet, topic answered my question :(
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<tpw_rules>
catphish: have you compiled your own kernel before?
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<catphish>
tpw_rules: yes, i'm perfectly comfortable compiling kernels, but does everything work? audio, video, mouse, wifi, etc? what i read "Not ready for end users" by assumption was that things were missing
<catphish>
i understand with such projects there's a long way between "linux boots" and a usable desktop pc
<nsklaus>
audio works partialy, like on mac mini through both speaker and jack and on macbooks only through jack
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<nsklaus>
video is only framebuffer, although reported to be snappy and fast, resolution change also seems to work, but no acceleration either in 2d or 3d
<peac_>
Hi, is there a place where i can find the asahi linux kernel already compiled ?
<nsklaus>
wifi, touchpad, keyboard works
<nsklaus>
(catphish)
<catphish>
nsklaus: thanks, the wiki claims the display has DRM too now
<catphish>
so it's certainly getting there
<nsklaus>
this might be more up to date info than what i was reporting yes
<catphish>
this is very exciting for me as i've wanted an ARM laptop for a long time
<nsklaus>
catphish: indeed, me too
<nsklaus>
i'm eagerly waiting for proper power management and better sound support (speakers on macbook)
<catphish>
i saw an air for sale locally for not much money so was considering YOLO'ing it
<nsklaus>
bluetooth too is a must for me, but that one while take a while i'm affraid, as there are higher priority before it is looked upon
<catphish>
i probably have more important things to be doing, but i'm very excited about the whole project
<catphish>
thanks :)
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<catphish>
got to run :)
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<Glanzmann>
nsklaus: Mini has only one speaker.
<Glanzmann>
nsklaus: You know that, of course, misread your statement.
<peac_>
can I find also the config with which it has been compiled ?
<mps>
peac_: I'm preparing files needed to install alpine linux and will soon upload m1n1+u-boot there
<mps>
peac_: yes, when you untar it you will find boot/config-5.16.0-asahi-25 file
<peac_>
perfect thanks !
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<peac_>
have you tried running this kernel on M1 using qemu virtualization ?
<mps>
you mean in VM
<peac_>
yes, on macos running qemu without emulation, running native aarch64
<mps>
no, I didn't, it is made for m1 bare metal, have to add options to audio on mini
<peac_>
o
<peac_>
ok*
<mps>
but any aarch64 kernel from distros should work
<peac_>
i'm having a hard time booting anything aarch64 natively on qemu, i'm looking if i get any more luck with asahi kernel as it is made for M1
<mps>
peac_: I don't understand this question `on macos running qemu without emulation, running native aarch64`
<mps>
'natively in qemu' sounds strange to me as I'm not native english speaker
<peac_>
you did answer already, you did not run asahi virtualized on macos :)
<mps>
right
<peac_>
my natively i meant without using emulation, so leveraging the M1's aarch64 to run aarch64 directly
<Glanzmann>
peac_: Linux runs without modification in any hypervisor on macos.
<agraf>
peac_: when running in QEMU, you really don't need any of the Asahi enablement
<peac_>
s/my/by/
<agraf>
peac_: your average distros should "just work". What problems did you run into when booting?
<mps>
but I run about two months alpine linux on macos on qemu with HVF, nearly bare metal speed
<peac_>
agraf: from plain "not booting" (no bootlog) to booting but kernel panic due to the kernel not finding how to mount the attached drive... my best results has been with pm215's old compiled kernel, but still it could not mount root, i've hired a more experienced in qemu engineer and he also could not make it work even by compiling a custom kernel
<agraf>
peac_: what are you trying to do? :)
<peac_>
maybe we should go to #qemu as this is not directly related to asahi
<agraf>
sure
<sven>
fwiw, I used to run a normal kernel (ubuntu I think?) for a while inside qemu + HVF as my build machine for linux kernels just fine
<mps>
sven: I run aarch64 in qemu on m1 with asahi linux, alpine patched qemu 6.2 to run on apple silicin
<mps>
also nearly native speed
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<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
I'm sorry if this has been asked.
<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
Will the Rosetta translation layer work at all? I mean eventually or is this something that is completely off the table.
<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
Thanks.
<Glanzmann>
g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]: I think it will, but needs 4k pages and another piece of software which name i forgot.
<Glanzmann>
So this is further down the road.
<Major_Biscuit>
Glanzmann: how can it work without someone rewritting it for Linux? Isn't Rosetta implemented in software as part of macOS?
<ChaosPrincess>
rosetta2 is both a x86 to arm translator (which would need to be rewritten), and special magic control registers in the chip that make it's job easier
<Glanzmann>
Major_Biscuit: There is some sort software which does that only, but it requires 4k pages, IIRC.
<Glanzmann>
s/only/already/g
<ChaosPrincess>
in theory you can take qemu's binary translator, and teach it the 'not-quite-arm-that-is-easier-to-convert-x86-to' as a target
<Major_Biscuit>
ChaosPrincess: got it thanks. I didn't know about the second part
<Glanzmann>
sven: THank you. That is what I meant.
<sven>
no idea how it compares to qemu though, i've never used it myself
<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
I wonder if fex will be bake to use the chip to speedup like rosetta
<sven>
the chip speedup is mostly a bit to enable total store ordering afaik
<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
Either way, I'm waiting anxiously to replace an old x86 laptop and pc with a performant arm chip.
<sven>
we can also just recompile most day-to-day linux tools for arm64
<Glanzmann>
g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]: You can already work with it, and it gets better every week. I'm looking forward for SMC so that I can poweroff the system using software. I'm also thinking about using m1n1 to boot the kernel in order to speedup boot time.
<Glanzmann>
Of course I'm looking forward for audio capture / speakers, 3d accell, camera support.
<Glanzmann>
g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]: But since we have wifi, I use the m1 air a lot for work under Linux.
<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
Oh wow. I didn't think the project was that far ahead. I'd seen a screen capture of the desktop with terminal and neofetch
<j`ey>
g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]: rosessta was useful for mac apps, most normal linux stuff will be fine on amr already
<j`ey>
arm
<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
j`ey: There's a few that don't have a version like the Tor Browser. Otherwise yes.
<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
<Glanzmann> "g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n: But since we..." <- WiFi is a major one.
<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
While dp alt mode is a bummer tho
<Glanzmann>
g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]: What is 'dp alt mode'?
<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
Glanzmann: Video out over USB c
<Glanzmann>
g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]: This will take quite a while, I think.
<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
Usually to a monitor with USB c or display port
<Glanzmann>
simpledrm is quiet usable, dcp is slow.
<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
As long as the Mac mini has working outputs, then its good enough for me. I wonder if it'll be faster than my 7th series i5...
<g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]>
Are you guys running the aaahi kernel?
<sven>
Video over usb c is going to be quite a mess because it closely ties in with thunderbolt and the usb3/4 phy
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<Glanzmann>
g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]: Most of us is running this, if you use it as desktop or variation of this: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/DesktopKernel Upstream is missing to many features at the moment.
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<Glanzmann>
There is also a 4k iommu patch from Sven which is quiet old, but applies on top of the current branch and everything appears to work with it: tg.st/u/iommu.patch
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<Glanzmann>
And if you run the mini, you can use the dcp branch of jannau, but the video performance appears to me much worse than simpledrm. DCP branch allows for setting the mode and rotation: git clone https://github.com/jannau/linux; cd linux; git checkout asahi-dcp; curl -Ls https://tg.st/u/m1-dcp-2022-01-30-config > .config
<Glanzmann>
g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]: 4k patch is necessasry for chrome, if you don't want to recompile it yourself.
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<chadmed>
imagine being the kind of person who *wants* to compile chromium
<chadmed>
emerging rust, spidermonkey and firefox is still quicker on my machine than building chromium
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<chadmed>
g8rfx9wozue0e9pa3n[m]: displayport alt mode is probably a while away, but usb 2.0 works so if you have a DisplayLink docking station you might be able to use that?
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<Glanzmann>
chadmed: espo tried a whole night to get DisplayLink to run, he always ended up with a freezing kernel, so if you're marcan, maybe you get DisplayLink to work, for the others ... at the moment probably not.
<Glanzmann>
s/marcan/devs/ ;-)
<chadmed>
i wish i had some DL hardware to test now, i went and forked out for a native TB4 dock with proper displayport like a sucker :P
<sven>
just need to bring up thunderbolt for that :-P
<chadmed>
was hoping it would just work with no cd321x quirks and i could use my new machine for uni this semester. alas, not to be
<sven>
oh, it's worse. this requires at least some support for what apple calls ATC (the thunderbolt/usb4 phy/controller)
<chadmed>
on one level im surprised they didnt just use a Lightning Ridge chip but on another level im not surprised in the slightest
<chadmed>
libreoffice is pretty atrocious on macos but ill get over it i think. beats putting up with my A1708's stuffed battery
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<marcan>
intel's thunderbolt implementation is pretty horrendous, I am not surprised in the slightest they did not use it
<nsklaus>
marcan: is there any news about next blog entry to cover what happened since last november ?
<nsklaus>
non-kernel developers are probably eager to follow the evolution
<nsklaus>
i mean, the quickstart guide tells current state is not yet ready even for power users, but following along through wiki tasklist and blog entry is nice and many are probably interested to see asahi progress
<nsklaus>
i'm following your videos, blog entries and twitter posts since the beginning of this project, and i'm hungrey for news :)
<nsklaus>
come to think of it, i haven't refreshed your twitter page this last hour.. here's hope something news was posted .. *checking*
<nsklaus>
hmm no
<nsklaus>
*no news
<nsklaus>
also, smc could be added to the task list (and possibly checked too?) , since your last two vids covered it
<opticron>
things only get checked once upstreamed and I don't think it has reached that state yet (though I could be wrong)
<opticron>
but certainly it should be on the list
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<nsklaus>
opticron: then added to the task list, and left unchecked until it get upstreamed, maybe ?
<nsklaus>
yes
<opticron>
yeah, that's probably the right answer and it's a prereq for battery/temp info which exists at the bottom of the list, iirc
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<nsklaus>
and still in task list, at the bottom of the bootloader (m1n1) section, there's "storage driver" and "filesystem" entries, shouldn't those too be checked ?
<nsklaus>
m1n1 is able to access linux partition and load kernel from them, so filesystem support is there already, no ?
<Glanzmann>
nsklaus: Nope.
<Glanzmann>
nsklaus: But u-boot can.
<Glanzmann>
Or u-boot loads grub and than grub can do it.
<Glanzmann>
nsklaus: But we got recently nvme support from SVen for m1n1 but not doing anything with it.
<nsklaus>
Glanzmann: so uboot supprt should be added to the list and these two entries mentionned above be moved in the new "uboot" section then ?
<nsklaus>
nvme is not listed either (there's ssd though.. they both are the same if i understand correctly ? )
<nsklaus>
for m1n1 to startup uboot, is not mandatory for m1n1 to access partitions or mbr, partition tables, and such ?
<sven>
no, u-boot is just installed together with m1n1
<sven>
it'll be loaded by iboot for us
<nsklaus>
sven: i see, thanks for telling. so boot chain is: iboot -> m1n1 -> uboot -> grub -> linux ?
<sven>
eventually, yes
<mps>
nsklaus: m1n1+dtb+u-boot is chained in one file which is installed by kmutil in 1TR
<nsklaus>
mps: thanks for the details
<mps>
nsklaus: and your chain loading above is correct
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<nsklaus>
if m1n1 and uboot are mixed together in some sort of hybrid boot manager, and if uboot part of that, do support filesystem lookup/accessing/mounting, is it not the same in the end if some one checks that filesystem entry in the wiki task list ? i mean i understand that strictly speaking uboot does it, not m1n1, but in the end for it amount to the same, is it not ?
<ChaosPrincess>
there is a reason to have fs access in m1n1 itself
<ChaosPrincess>
updating m1n1 via chainload
<nsklaus>
hmm, i understand.. so a separate uboot entry in task list is needed
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<nsklaus>
"Not ready for end users / self contained install yet. Soon." -> https://0x0.st/oHp2.jpg
<Glanzmann>
nsklaus: And u-boot only works on m1 machines, not on the m1 pro/max.
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<nsklaus>
my macbook is the base M1 pro
<nsklaus>
i mean, macbookpro , base M1
<Glanzmann>
nsklaus: Than no luck with u-boot for now. But kettenis is working on it.
<Glanzmann>
nsklaus: That works.
<Glanzmann>
nsklaus: So it is from 2020?
<nsklaus>
yes
<Glanzmann>
Than it works.
<nsklaus>
i'm "soon'ing" since then
<mps>
nsklaus: some of use have some distros 'ready' and use it, Glanzmann made debian, tpw_rules nixos and I alpine
<nsklaus>
;)
<Glanzmann>
See the Debian installer video for example. Don't know if you want to use Debian, but other distros work alike but maybe miss support.
<Glanzmann>
Oh and kettenis did OpenBSD.
<mps>
Glanzmann: ah yes, sorry I forgot
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<nsklaus>
nixos is interesting but i prefer gobolinux for self contained 'filesystem is the package manager' paradigm, alpine is too minimalist for me, not enough packges available, so that would be debian for me, but i'd prefer arch idealy
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<Glanzmann>
nsklaus: AFAIK jannau and marcan work on ARCH.
<Glanzmann>
But it currently lacks support if I understood jannau correctly. But they're working on it and want to put it upstream.
<nsklaus>
yes, i was pleasantly susrprised to hear at the beginning of this project asahi would be an arch fork
<mps>
I think any distro should work if the kernel boots
<nsklaus>
i've been stuck on a refresh loop on marcan's twitter page for a year now, not blinking, eyes wide open ..
<mps>
userspace on m1 is the same as on my two different chromebooks, no one byte is changed
* nsklaus
press F5 again
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<hramrach>
landscape15[m]: The dafest way may be to patch kernel with ability to bind spidev on unused SPI devices - https://lore.kernel.org/all/cover.1468880530.git.hramrach@gmail.com/ , ensure u-boot has no SPI support, enable SPI CS that you thing connects the the NOR flash in DT, and talk to it from userspacee over spidev. Then you can decide if the device responded with something reasonable
<hramrach>
to your ID request before issuing any additional configuration commands
<hramrach>
For the most part talking with the SPI NOR driver to a SPI NOR flash is pretty safe but if a device other than a SPI NOR flash repliees with something that looks like valid SPI NOR id to the id request you may end up taking to something else
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<povik>
/win 3
<povik>
disregard...
<povik>
at least i broke the silence
<kettenis>
is that why you hack on audio drivers?
<j`ey>
silence is golden
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<chadmed>
nsklaus: ALARM works fine, so does Artix
<chadmed>
once you have m1n1 and u-boot installed its pretty trivial to go from there