marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | Not ready for end users / self contained install yet. Soon. | General project discussion | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<marcan>
landscape15[m]: every change to machine software does not require 1TR
<marcan>
changes to the custom boot object require 1TR
<marcan>
normal installs can happen from macOS if Apple still signs that version or from any rOS if they do not (reduced security)
<marcan>
but that wouldn't work from linux anyway because we wouldn't want to implement or require the phone home stuff
<marcan>
so upgrades will require recovery mode (=1TR in the normal case anyway)
<marcan>
the remaining question is whether they will *also* require two reboots, doing step2.sh again from upgraded rOS
<marcan>
I'm not sure yet, I suspect they will ever since 12.x but maybe we can find a way around that. unclear.
<marcan>
sven: the auxKC stuff is more magic than we thought anyway
<marcan>
apparently there's a "kcOS" involved
<marcan>
it doesn't get updated from macOS; stuff gets staged and a reboot through recovery in a special mode happens
<marcan>
you can tell because installing kexts ends up in a magic double reboot on macOS
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<marcan>
and all that will only work with real kexts and there's magic authentication/credential passing and it's all a giant confusing thing
<marcan>
so even if it *did* work for fuOS, we wouldn't be able to use it without some serious craziness
<Plutoon>
once pluton becomes a thing you wont even be able to install linux on x84
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<marcan>
isn't pluton the xbox stuff? if so hey, maybe x86 actually has a chance at decent silicon security too, no thanks to intel
<marcan>
Apple (iDevices) and Microsoft (Xbox) are, in my opinion, the only two companies that know how to do consumer product security properly
<chadmed>
yeah pluton is the xbox security chip ported to SIP block, the new AMD laptop chips have it integrated
<marcan>
the xbox security stuff was always an IP block
<marcan>
so this is just MS telling AMD they have permission to ship it in non-xbox silicon :)
<Plutoon>
permission?
<chadmed>
well AMD cant just take Microsoft's IP and use it wherever they want
<chadmed>
they need permission to integrate it onto their chips
<Plutoon>
actually they are mandating it
<chadmed>
yeah ok but its still not open source HDL so you need MS's permission to have it and integrate it into your own design
<chadmed>
mandating its presence for win11 certification is different to letting chipmakers put it in their chips
<Plutoon>
at least if they want to get windows XX working on their silicon
<marcan>
also I see nothing about this locking down the platform to other OSes, that sounds like the same nonsense FUD we had with TPMs
<Plutoon>
im sure windows loves linux as long as its running under windows
<marcan>
either way, this is offtopic
<chadmed>
they wont stop you from installing linux because that would be extremely illegal and regulatory bodies the world over would come down on them like a metric tonne of bricks
<mjg59>
The firmware running on Pluton in the AMD chips just exposes TPM functionality
<mjg59>
It is literally unable to prevent you booting the OS of your choice
<Plutoon>
yes they are taking babe steps with this for sometime now
<marcan>
*sigh*
<chadmed>
#asahi-offtopic
<marcan>
I'm *not* having this kind of rhetoric here, sorry
<marcan>
not even in -offtopic
<marcan>
I've had more than enough "apple will lock down macs next year" arguments on HN and friends and this is the exact same thing but for PCs
<marcan>
please take your conspiracy theories to another community
<Plutoon>
conspiracy theories?
<marcan>
< Plutoon> yes they are taking babe steps with this for sometime now
<Plutoon>
its plain to see
<marcan>
great; please discuss this elsewhere
<marcan>
we're busy improving free software here
<Plutoon>
if they had it their way linux would be illegal since its inception
<marcan>
stop.
<marcan>
this is not the place.
<Plutoon>
okay i just dont get why are you so worked up about some triviall thing
<marcan>
it's not a "trivial thing", this is the 20th time someone tries to argue that $manufacturer is evil and going to lock everyone out with me and I am tired of it. It doesn't matter that it's always Apple and now it's Microsoft. Those arguments never go anywhere, no proof is ever shown of anything, we've had this kind of fearmongering since TPMs and I'm not going to waste my and everyone else's time ...
<marcan>
... further on this.
<Plutoon>
is it possible to install linux on chrome books natively?
<marcan>
yes.
<marcan>
from the very start, with a documented process. it always has been.
<marcan>
I have a chromebook running Arch sitting on my shelf
<Plutoon>
you need some emulation thing croton
<marcan>
no you don't
<Plutoon>
okay then
<Plutoon>
thats good to know
<Plutoon>
so you didnt use that croton thing?
<marcan>
no I did not
<Plutoon>
great
<krbtgt>
remember back when all this rhetoric was called palladium?
<krbtgt>
fun times...
<marcan>
ah yes...
<krbtgt>
guys vister will be the end of freedom!!!
<rkjnsn[m]>
Crouton is an unofficial way to install a separate distro in a chroot environment inside a reduced-security Chrome OS. It is distinct from installing a different Linux distro on the bare metal.
<krbtgt>
chromebooks come with w/ a boot time unlock for that
<rkjnsn[m]>
Yes, sorry. Just meaning to clarify that not only do you not need crouton to install Linux bare-metal on a Chromebook, that's not even what crouton seeks to accomplish.
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<Plutoon>
is there some easy way to disable l3 cache on linux?
<Plutoon>
im geting this [Hardware Error]: cache level: L3/GEN, tx: GEN, mem-tx: RD
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<marcan>
this is on x86, right? that is also offtopic
<Plutoon>
there doesnt seem to be anything on topic going on here
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<marcan>
that's not an invitation to use this channel for other topics
<Plutoon>
better that not using it for anything at all
<marcan>
hah. yeah, they would, since they run on brcmfmac :)
<marcan>
good to know
<marcan>
wonder if anyone plans to upstream that?
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<rkjnsn[m]>
Hopefully, not too far off-topic, but do you know if any of the firmware extraction / loading stuff could be applied to pre-T2 Macbook Pros?
<mps>
sorry if it is OT, but chromebooks have physical screw by which it is possible to flash boot firmware (say u-boot) and change some hardware configs to internal flash, and it is intended for 'brave' ones to do this
<mps>
I run linux in 'bare metal mode' for years on some chromebooks
<_jannau_>
ey3ball[m]: thanks. I didn't have the information yet and it's not the same product ID as the 14-inch model
<ey3ball[m]>
It's a french keyboard though, don't know if this can have an impact too
<_jannau_>
I don't think so, product ids are continuous for the 13, 14 and 16-inch macbook pros. product id was constant for various Keyboard layouts on the other models
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<rkjnsn[m]>
marcan: Ah, slightly unfortunate. Which kext?
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<marcan>
rkjnsn[m]: there's plugins with the chip name in the filename, something under AirPort, you should be able to find them (not in front of that computer atm)
<marcan>
search for e.g. 4360
<marcan>
mps: the screw thing is obsolete, it's now some kind of power button tap sequence, not unlike (but more extreme than) 1TR
<marcan>
but mine is from the screw era
<mps>
marcan: also all of mine are more than 4 years old, didn't know they changed this, so now even opening them is not needed
<j`ey>
marcan: can you push a branch for your wifi v2 patchset?
<j`ey>
marcan: (to be able to diff against v3)
<marcan>
j`ey: pushed as wifi/v2, but you'll have to rebase one or the other since the v3 wip is against asahi
<marcan>
(ignore the last commit in wifi/v2, that was not part of the series obviously)
<marcan>
I think v3-wip-asahi should have all the review feedback so far
<marcan>
plus a couple extra fixes and the WPA3 thing
<j`ey>
marcan: ty
<mps>
marcan: would you add my keyboard patch
<marcan>
mps: the F key thing? I need to do the overall rebase to update the nvme and keyboard/touchpad stuff first but sure, we can carry that in lieu of working touch bar for now
<mps>
marcan: yes, temporary 'workaround' for Fkeys till someone made touchbar driver
<j`ey>
marcan: reckon you'll be back to streaming ""soon""?
<_jannau_>
mps: I've integrated it dependent on the 13-inch macbook pro product id. I haven't pushed my current input tree yet though
<marcan>
j`ey: yeah, I'd like to sneak in a day in the next week but if I can't, definitely the week after
<j`ey>
marcan: I think devm_kasprintf rather than the incremental buildup of 'buf' is easier to read
<marcan>
yeah, I think so too
<mps>
_jannau_: aha, ok.
<j`ey>
marcan: and cool, look forward to it
<mps>
this Fkeys hack is very useful for me
<rkjnsn[m]>
marcan: Hmm… I'm not seeing any files with 4360 in the name. I have a /System/Library/Extensions/IO80211FamilyLegacy.kext/Contents/PlugIns/AirPortBrcmNIC.kext/Contents/MacOS/AirPortBrcmNIC, which appears to contain a symbol named _dlarray_43602pci, among others.
<marcan>
hm, different version maybe? I think it was under that PlugIns path, I can check again a bit later
<marcan>
or just ioreg -l and see what it mentions, it should be in there, grep -i airport or bcm should find it
<rkjnsn[m]>
Thanks! I'm on 12.1.
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<rkjnsn[m]>
Well, I'm pretty sure the _dlarray_43602pci symbol points to at least part of the firmware, but not everything needed (possibly just for one core type). At the very least, it is lacking nvram settings. But I have already spent way too much time on this for tonight, and must sleep.
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<jannau>
my macbook seems much warmer with wifi/take5 and wifi enabled compared to my spi-hid branch based on linux-asahi. system is idling at sddm login screen
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<mps>
jannau: I'm also running asahi wifi/take5 and machine is not warm, though I don't know how warm or cold it is with your branch
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<mps>
where I can find your branch, maybe I could try to build it and test
<jannau>
it's work in progress but the only difference to linux-asahi is my work on the input devices
<jannau>
I think it was with apple_defconfig so it might be audio