marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | "Does XXX work yet?": https://alx.sh/fs | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-alt #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<Guest1779>
yooo
<fooxi>
Good morning.
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<vveapon>
hi folks. I'm running the latest Fedora 39 Remix with Wayland on an M1 iMac (the 4 port / 16gb version). So far almost everything is working great but I was having trouble with input latency, particularly in the browser and Electron apps (ugh) so went digging
<vveapon>
I've noticed that changing the CPU scaling governor from schedutil to performance or ondemand seems to improve the latency (subjectively) and is giving me better Firefox rendering benchmark scores
<vveapon>
is there a way to tweak schedutil to get a similar latency improvement without having to switch away from it entirely? I like the idea of schedutil at least
<vveapon>
I'm running 200% scaling currently if that matters
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<vveapon>
sorry KDE on Wayland, to be specific
<vveapon>
on Speedometer 3.0 I get 18.8 with performance, 15.4 with ondemand and 13.3 with the default schedutil. apologies for the synthetic and prob not very useful benchmark but I wanted to make sure I wasn't imagining the improvements
<fooxi>
jannau: Can confirm sound now works properly again, with:
<chadmed>
vveapon: there are no user-controllable tunables for the scheduler however we recently got UCLAMP support enabled in the fedora kernel. you may try using uclampset to clamp firefox's util_max to 1024 and see if that helps
<vveapon>
thanks, I'll have a go
<vveapon>
the whole system latency definitely seems to improve when adjusting the governor, e.g. mouse movement is smoother etc, is that expected?
<chadmed>
no that is not expected at all
<chadmed>
there are only a few edge cases where schedutil has a noticeable interactivity penalty
<chadmed>
imacs are the least-tested/least-supported machine round these parts so it is possible that there is something innate to them that causes more issues than we're aware about
<vveapon>
yeah fair enough, I'm quite happy to be a guinea pig if there's anything further I can do to help figure it out
<vveapon>
"uclampset -M 1024 firefox" doesn't seem to perform obviously better, but I'll need to do some more testing
<vveapon>
this is also my first time using Wayland, I installed Xorg and the latency was a lot better there, but I'm keen to give Wayland a proper go
<chadmed>
theres probably something else wrong then because that forces the cores into the maximum OPP when firefox is running, and also forces it to migrate to the pcores
<chadmed>
ahhhhh
<chadmed>
what does plasma settings say your gpu is
<vveapon>
"Apple M1"
<chadmed>
can you paste the output of asahi-diagnose somewhere like tpaste and link to it
<vveapon>
unfortunately I need to step away for a bit, I'll be back online later tonight, thanks for looking in to it chadmed :)
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<chadmed>
vveapon: i cant see anything dodgy in there
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<vveapon>
chadmed: good to know
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<vveapon>
is running with "performance" governor on an iMac gonna jam the CPUs at full power? or is there some additional idle mechanism
<vveapon>
it didn't seem like the fans spun up immediately at least
<vveapon>
I'm also considering sway if that's likely to be any better or worse than KDE
<jannau>
I think cpuidle should works independently of the governor so the CPU will not continuosly run on full blast on an idle system
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<jannau>
the imac has the largest display 4480x2520 (45MB frame buffers) so it is probably the first device where performance issues become noticeable
<jannau>
vveapon: can you quantify the lag? I can test occasionally on an imac and haven't noticed anything
<vveapon>
typing in Firefox in to Discord I can get ahead of the text appearing, Signal Desktop electron app is the worst of all, gets very behind on typing and scrolling / using the UI is a struggle. in general it feels often like interacting with Qt menus etc there's a little hesitation before the menu pops open
<vveapon>
and the mouse pointer doesn't move around smoothly some of the time
<vveapon>
it felt a lot better under Xorg but that has other problems like the mouse cursor flickers like mad, and the usual X dodgy scaling
<vveapon>
I get a few other random graphical issues, like if I set Konsole to semi-transparent and blurred then move the mouse over the Konsole window I get flickery square boxes in a trail behind the cursor
<vveapon>
all my other machines I'm running i3 w/ xorg on Debian
<vveapon>
so I'm admittedly not that familiar with what KDE is like normally, I haven't used it in ~ 15 years
<vveapon>
sometimes mouse movement is smooth and then it'll start stuttering for a second or two
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<vveapon>
resizing windows I get weird tearing around the title bar / top of the window
<vveapon>
hmm not with Konsole though, only Sylpheed and Firefox
<vveapon>
moving the mouse around over the KDE launcher menu also leaves blocky trails though they go away when I hit print screen :P
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<jannau>
are any of apps flatpaks? those don't have access to the GPU due ot missing driver in the flatpak runtime
<vveapon>
no I have strenuously avoided flatpak
<jannau>
the block artifacts around the mouse cursor is a KDE bug and only fixed in KDE 6
<vveapon>
ok good to know, I thought I saw that somewhere on the web but I wasn't 100% sure it was the same thing
<vveapon>
also I recognise "the UI has only sort of perceptible extra latency that is annoying" is a real nebulous bug report :P
<vveapon>
but the browser benchmarks with changed CPU governor seems weird
<jannau>
we should have disabled the blur effect and I thought that got rid of most of the artifacts. I think it was most visible with fractional scaling which you don't use
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<vveapon>
the latency does seem better at 200% scaling tbh, previously I was running 175% but it's a little too small
<vveapon>
anyway the machine is totally usable and it is incredibly nice not to be stuck in macOS :)
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<ml00>
vveapon: the command i use for games is "uclampset -m 1024" not "-M" and it gives me much more performance
<vveapon>
oh nice, I'll compare
<vveapon>
ok yep, that gives me the same performance improvement as setting the governor to "performance"
<vveapon>
and the input latency is a lot better in Discord
<vveapon>
also makes Signal work heaps better
<vveapon>
I'll have to go do some reading on what this is doing exactly
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<ml00>
it probably makes the task it prefer performance cores and at higher frequency, i previously used performance governor and taskset to performance cores but then i was only limited to 4 cores so uclampset works better for me
<vveapon>
yeah nice, thanks for noticing that, it seems a lot better
<chadmed>
vveapon, ml00: it doesnt explicitly make the task prefer pcores, that would be taskset. what it does is tells the scheduler that the task _always_ requires max performance, even when it doesnt. this causes the scheduler to _always_ schedule it more aggressively
<vveapon>
is there a downside on a non-battery system?
<chadmed>
the reason we do not simply peg things to the pcores is that it is sometimes the case that an ecore could provide better performance, efficiency and availability for a given task, even if it is "slower". only the scheduler can know if this is the case though, so we just tell the scheduler about the task's perf requirement
<chadmed>
vveapon: yes if you overuse uclamp or try to hack everything to clamp at 1024 then youre preventing the scheduler from doing its job properly
<vveapon>
right
<chadmed>
your issues _should_ go away once lina and alyssa get around to implementing framebuffer compression
<vveapon>
excellent
<vveapon>
ty for the explanations chadmed, I appreciate it
<chadmed>
no wokkas
<vveapon>
I'm gonna continue running Fedora Remix on this iMac for the foreseeable so if you ever want anything tested feel free to poke me
<chadmed>
might get you to test some audio related stuff when we get around to it
<vveapon>
I am going to see how OpenBSD is going as well but I think I'll get too annoyed to stick with it :)
<jannau>
vveapon: the main issue with something like input lag is that it's hard to know if it's not there or if one just doesn't notice it. the imac is certainly one of the less used/tested devices so there could be device specific issues
<vveapon>
happy to test audio. I'm using some USB speakers at the moment
<vveapon>
jannau: yeah absolutely understood, I think I am probably extra sensitive to it too
<vveapon>
I normally run compositorless xorg on a Ryzen to get the lowest latency
<jannau>
feel free to test sway and see if it's better there
<vveapon>
yeah I will do
<vveapon>
this iMac is my checking e-mail and goofing off on IRC machine so I could definitely live with KDE
<vveapon>
and being rude to the scheduler seems to have fixed things enough for now to be not annoying
<vveapon>
coming off 20 years of thinkpads where nothing really ever works 100% at the best of times Asahi seems like kind of a miracle :D