<javierm>
tzimmermann: my gut feeling is that the solution should be to expose the original firmware provided framebuffer size and format if user-space wants to know that
<tzimmermann>
javierm, they are using efifb? and they want to extract framebuffer settings?
<tzimmermann>
but efi-framebuffer.0 is missing?
<tzimmermann>
efi-framebuffer.0 is the platform device
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<tzimmermann>
the native driver removed it via aperture helpers
<javierm>
tzimmermann: yes I know, I've explained that to them already
<tzimmermann>
i'm still trying to understand the bug report. it seems like there are multiple issues
<javierm>
but basically what they want is to know what is the system framebuffer size used so that they can put a BMP with the message that the system firmware is being updated
<javierm>
tzimmermann: yeah, it's noisy because the people were confused about efifb vs simpledrm and old kernels not removing the conflicting devices vs new kernels doing it
<javierm>
tzimmermann: the important is the use case and what they need. Which is as mentioned the size of the firmware provided framebuffer
<tzimmermann>
the screen resolution is not stable. i guess that your suggestion of using the bgrt is sound
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<javierm>
tzimmermann: I just discussed with Richard (fwupd maintainer) and he says that can't make assumptions about where the vendor logo is
<javierm>
i.e. we don't know if the vendor logo is in the top left or in the center etc, and fwupd wants to just put a "don't power down during the update" in the users language text below
<javierm>
tzimmermann: do you think that's reasonable to expose the screen_info data or as mentioned the EFI-GOP in /sys/firmware/efi/ ?
<tzimmermann>
javierm, this is old information
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<tzimmermann>
they'd ideally use the drm api to read the preferred mode
<tzimmermann>
that's likely what the system preferrably boots
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<tzimmermann>
or they also read the BGRT and use whatever is smaller
<javierm>
tzimmermann: but the preferred mode is not necessarily the mode used by the firmware on boot
<tzimmermann>
javierm, but it's likely
<javierm>
that is, if the real DRM driver did a modeset then the preferred mode would be different
<tzimmermann>
the preferred mode is picked from the EDID
<javierm>
tzimmermann: ah, right
<tzimmermann>
the preferred mode is picked from the EDID
<tzimmermann>
and that's likely the native resolution of the display
<javierm>
tzimmermann: that's a good point. Likely the firmware also choses their own resolution for the EFI-GOP from the EDID
<tzimmermann>
exactly. i know it's not 100%, but still...
<javierm>
tzimmermann: yeah, it's a much better heuristic
<javierm>
tzimmermann: can you please comment that in the github issue ?
<tzimmermann>
didn't i?
<tzimmermann>
or maybe let me clarify
<javierm>
tzimmermann: no my bad. I didn't refresh it :)
<javierm>
tzimmermann: thanks a lot for your comment there
<tzimmermann>
ok, i mentioned the edid
<javierm>
tzimmermann: cool, I seconded you. That indeed sounds like the most robust approach
<tzimmermann>
i don't think there's a way of configuring this in uefi?
<javierm>
tzimmermann: they can use a combination of both, to know also the vendor logo size and offset, to place the text correctly
<tzimmermann>
yeah, probably a combination of both should be on the safe side
<tzimmermann>
AFAICT, systems with CMS enabled sometimes boot with a low resolution
<javierm>
tzimmermann: but systems with CMS enabled won't boot on EFI mode anyways and so fwupd won't work
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<karolherbst>
I wished there would be a better way..
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<javierm>
tzimmermann: yes, I had on my backlog. I'll try to do it tomorrow, or do you already have that set reviewed/acked to push ?
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<tzimmermann>
javierm, gerd hoffmann, the bochs maintainer gave an ack
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<javierm>
tzimmermann: ah, then feel free to just land it :)
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<tzimmermann>
javierm, thanks a lot. you've done more than a fair share of reviews for me recently
<javierm>
no worries
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<austriancoder>
DavidHeidelberg: ahh .. you are making progress :)
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<DemiMarie>
Can someone kick james_scott_001?
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<karolherbst>
DemiMarie: who?
<karolherbst>
is this another matrix bug?
<karolherbst>
but seriously... matrix should really fix that bug, because otherwise if on the matrix side accounts can harass/spam/whatever without any moderator noticing here, I don't see how we can continue allowing matrix connections...
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<DemiMarie>
karolherbst: not a matrix bug
<HdkR>
+M?
<DemiMarie>
the problem is that this is a portaled room, meaning that the only Matrix-side admin is the bridge bot
<karolherbst>
sounds like a matrix bug to me (or a bug in the bridge)
<karolherbst>
why do people see messages from accounts not allowed to write on the IRC side?
<karolherbst>
it's really a show stopper if you want to enforce moderation in any way
<DemiMarie>
Not sure
<karolherbst>
it's a known issue and nobody bothers fixing it
<DemiMarie>
another option would be to setup the room as a bridged room, meaning that there are admins on both sides
<DemiMarie>
s/bridged/plumbed/
<karolherbst>
why?
<karolherbst>
sounds like more work for us to workaround a buggy bridge
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<karolherbst>
honestly, the bridge should just be fixed, so it's fixed for everybody
<DemiMarie>
because IRC is horrible if one does not either have a permanently-online device or pay for a cloud service
<karolherbst>
that's another topic
<karolherbst>
obviously, if we use something else and don't use the matrix bridge anymore, the bugs in the matrix bridge don't matter
<DemiMarie>
yes, it should, but it’s some Node.js application I don’t know if anyone here understands
<karolherbst>
but as it stands today, it's a bug in the brige
<karolherbst>
and it should be fixed
<DemiMarie>
correct, but I’m explaining why so many people choose to connect via Matrix
<DemiMarie>
IRC has massively fallen behind the times
<karolherbst>
I don't disagree
<DemiMarie>
Notably Mozilla has switched from IRC to Matrix entirely
<karolherbst>
sure
<karolherbst>
but it's still besides the point, that the matrix bridge has issues it shouldn't have. Sounds like "ah yeah, our bridge is buggy and it's totally your problem because we don't care, but hey, the solution is to use our software ;) ;) ;)"
<DemiMarie>
I agree that the bridge is buggy
<Company>
DemiMarie: IRC is a chat platform, matrix is a messaging platform
<Company>
IRC hasn't fallen behind
<karolherbst>
I don't really have confidence in matrix if the main bridge has such moderation issues
<karolherbst>
why should I belive that matrix itself is any better?
<DemiMarie>
karolherbst: from a moderation perspective the best platforms are the proprietary ones, sadly
<karolherbst>
well.. and apparently IRC
<karolherbst>
becuase we didn't see the spammer or whatever it was here
<DemiMarie>
IRC isn't great either
<karolherbst>
well
<karolherbst>
you did see the spammer, I didn't
<DemiMarie>
Company: synchronous chat is not usable as a primary contact point
<Company>
DemiMarie: the primary contact point is gitlab/github usually
<karolherbst>
but sure, IRC isn't great eitehr. I'm just saying, that if a chat platform or whatever is causing such moderation problems knowingly (and I know they are aware of the issues), why should I believe that their software is any better?
<DemiMarie>
and I do mean "not usable": if one cannot be online when the other person is, one cannot make contact
<DemiMarie>
Company: for a project, yes, for a person, no
<karolherbst>
but I am using matrix, and it has issues I'd rather it wouldn't have
<DemiMarie>
karolherbst: I suspect their funding mostly comes from B2B enterprise contracts
<karolherbst>
sure
<Company>
DemiMarie: yes, that's by design - you need a messaging platform for that
<karolherbst>
I don't think anybody here minds moving to something else, it's just hard to find that something else which is worth the effort
<karolherbst>
I've tried a couple of things and I'd probably choose matrix as the last resort
<DemiMarie>
What else have you tried?
<karolherbst>
zulip, rocket, and uhm... what was the name?
<DemiMarie>
mattermost?
<karolherbst>
nah.. something else
<DemiMarie>
I know that Xen switched to Matrix and Rust uses Zulip.
<DemiMarie>
Slack? Discord?
<DemiMarie>
Wire?
<karolherbst>
I meant open source
<DemiMarie>
Wire is IIRC
<karolherbst>
yeah dunno...
<karolherbst>
maybe it was Mattermost afterall
<DemiMarie>
I know that for me personally losing the Matrix bridge would be extremely annoying
<karolherbst>
yeah....
<karolherbst>
I was joking mostly, but not 100%
<DemiMarie>
I think Matrix’s main problem is that it is too decentralized.
<karolherbst>
it depends on how painful it gets
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<karolherbst>
because atm I don't even know how bad the situation is
<DemiMarie>
I just ignore each spammer that shows up, but there likely needs to be one admin on the Matrix side to delete junk
<karolherbst>
sure
<karolherbst>
but.
<llyyr>
>because IRC is horrible if one does not either have a permanently-online device or pay for a cloud service <-- self hosting a bouncer is free if you already have a vps, which you probably do
<karolherbst>
it's such an obvious problem, I think I'm just disappointed that people didn't bother fixing it yet
<DemiMarie>
llyyr: I do not
<DemiMarie>
and also one needs two to avoid downtime for security updates, and I'm not sure if any of the bouncers work in an HA configuration.
<karolherbst>
though I also ran into issues with pms and matrix users
<karolherbst>
but I know that on matrix that's all better
<karolherbst>
ther eis just a lot of things to setup to do it all properly
<DemiMarie>
IRC just needs to support fetching message history.
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<karolherbst>
I think if somebody would invest the time to set it up properly and I mean like moderation bots, room repair bots, etc.. etc... then it might make sense to switch and have a bridge from IRC to matrix
<karolherbst>
but...
<karolherbst>
somebody with the proper knowledge would have to do it and convince the others that it's a good idea
<DemiMarie>
Matrix is federated and a room does not belong to a single server. This is serious problem because it means that there is no total order of messages. Enforcing such an order would require either kicking out servers that respond slowly or create a vulnerability to denial of service attacks.
<DemiMarie>
That means that Matrix rooms are giant CRDTs, which makes the implementation incredibly complex.
<DemiMarie>
Having a single server be the source of truth for a room would solve the problem, because that server could maintain a total order of messages.
<karolherbst>
I've heard there are bots to "repair" rooms once they break
<DemiMarie>
Earth is small enough that the latency from going all the way around the world is small enough for humans to stand.
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<DemiMarie>
I believe the room bricking problem was a bug fixed in newer room versions.
<Company>
isn't it kind of a fundamental flaw of a messaging protocol if messages don't have an order?
<karolherbst>
IRC doesn't have an order either, but I mean.. atomics are kinda hard, especially across the network
<karolherbst>
though..
<karolherbst>
I think in IRC it's usually a client problem, but I don't know if the protocol actually sends you your own messages
<karolherbst>
so you might actually not know where your messages fit into the history, but it might also be that clients don't bother reordering
<Company>
right, but that's kind of annoying with irc, too
<karolherbst>
yeah...
<karolherbst>
DemiMarie: anyway.. I think it mostly just need a person with enough spoons to do it all properly
<karolherbst>
not sure if there is any other reason we are still on IRC besides nobody cared enough
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<Company>
you can do it like Gnome: force-transition everyone to matrix
<karolherbst>
mhhh
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<karolherbst>
luckily our community isn't that heavily organized
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<karolherbst>
so if one or two projects are having their rooms on matrix it won't even matter. I'm sure there are some dunno
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<karolherbst>
the one benefit of being more organized in regards to the chat platform could be that developers could moderate (as in kick spammers etc..) across channels
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<Company>
as long as you avoid admin power abuse, that works
<karolherbst>
we have that going on IRC already, it's just kinda on demand and various channels have varies people on their access list, it's just very... uhm.. random
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<DemiMarie>
Should regressions in Fedora Mesa packages be reported to Fedora or Mesa?
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<kisak>
Randomly from the internet: "./bin/glnxa64/MATLABWindow: /home/eric1/Downloads/matlab_R2024a_Linux/bin/glnxa64/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.29' not found (required by /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgallium-24.2.1 - kisak-mesa PPA.so)"
<kisak>
are we really naming libgallium off of VERSION?
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<mattst88>
kisak: yes (I don't know the reason why), but there's a unversion-libgallium configuration option to turn it off
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<kisak>
I think for my purposes, as long as it's not broken, then I'm not going to deviate from upstream Debian packaging. It's just unexpected.
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<kisak>
the rest of that error is just matlab naively shipping libstdc without considering it might end up on a newer distro.