04:08 <runxiyu> Ah

04:08 <runxiyu> I guess I'd have to go with Gentoo then

04:17 <chadmed> you make that sound like a bad thing :p

05:46 <LarstiQ> there are other options of course outside those two

06:47 <flokli> Come to the nix side, we have flakes

07:06 <mps> for me only acceptable are openBSD and Alpine

07:07 <mps> and maybe gentoo without systemd

07:08 <chadmed> i still use openrc :3

07:08 <mps> chadmed: nice \o/

07:09 <chadmed> the only thing that really tempts me over to sd is better plymouth integration and faster default runlevel booting but i dont really care about anything else it offers

07:10 <mps> heh, s6 init or runit

07:17 <MichaelLong> what ever works for you

07:46 <runxiyu> chadmed: It's just that I don't personally have a lot of time, and using Gentoo doesn't help

07:46 <j`ey> runxiyu: why just those two choices?

07:47 <runxiyu> The only other system that I know well is Debian, and I need new software

08:50 <leio> runxiyu: if you don't care for tweaking your USE flags a lot and compiling for armv8.5-a specifically, you can use a desktop profile without global USE tweaks and the binhost and get most as ready binaries.

08:51 <leio> (you can still set your CFLAGS and co to get that small side benefit when you do end up having to compile something yourself)

08:55 <runxiyu> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Profile_(Portage) only shows that there are ones for GNOME and KDE though

09:00 <leio> there's a generic desktop profile too, though I think the binary packages are built with USE flag defaults for desktop/gnome/systemd and desktop/plasma/systemd

09:00 <leio> which just means that some packages that actually do have USE flags that are toggled on in gnome or plasma profiles (but not desktop) and you don't turn them on, will force you to compile the occasional thing yourself.

09:00 <leio> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Binary_Host_Quickstart#arm64.2C_arm64.2F23.0

09:02 <leio> I don't use binhost myself (I compile firefox in 28 minutes, webkit-gtk in 10 minutes), but I've seen it in user reports telling you why it doesn't pick a binary package when it doesn't, so if it's some big package you don't want to wait, allows you to tweak the USE flags to match to get the binary package still.

09:02 <leio> but I believe most just let it do its compiling jobs overnight.

09:03 <leio> Usually just initial installs of what new stuff you need is causing some impatience :D

09:04 <runxiyu> leio: May I know what system you're on (for those compilation speeds)

09:04 <runxiyu> My M1 MacBook Air compiles firefox in 2 hours or something

09:04 <runxiyu> (I'm limiting CPU affinity though)

09:07 <leio> Mac Studio with M2 Ultra

09:08 <leio> it'd be faster, but I build with full debug symbols

09:30 <runxiyu> huh

09:45 <u154ss> @chadmed et all Again thinking of installing Gentoo alongside my existing Debian installation, running a M2 Mini with 24GB mem. I presume the install documentation is up to date? I had a look at Chadmed's version, but the docs make some assumptions that have me scratching me head. My fault, as installing Gentoo on apple silicon as not the same as on an x86 box. Any (major) caveats?

09:46 <chadmed> if you follow the guide on the asahi wiki there shouldnt be anything major

09:46 <chadmed> it is basically the exact same as on x86

09:48 <u154ss> I have 40Gb free space resserved for the install, small but enough to install the basics and see how things pan out.. I tried with your guide before (six months ago), but somewhere towards the end of the installation, installing boot loader, something major went wrong - most likely my fault. That is why I am posing the question again... Sorry for the bother.

09:55 <u154ss> In other words, I would like to keep my existing Debian installing AND install Gentoo alongside same, aka dual-boot in the x86 world. I am not sure whether this is covered in the Gentoo wiki docs. Hence my question(s).

09:55 <u154ss> installing = installation.

10:02 <chadmed> there are two ways to do it

10:02 <chadmed> the supported way is to use the asahi installer to spin out a new apfs stub and linux root

10:02 <chadmed> you will probably need to shrink your debian rootfs or macos

10:07 <u154ss> So, because of the way Asahi does its magic, I will need need more time at the drawing board.. If I understand you correctly, I will have to basically "duplicate" the Debian Asahi environment (APFS stub and another Linux root partition) and go from there. That is most likely what happened six months ago - I overwrote, unwittingly the existing Debian entries.

10:09 <u154ss> I would basically need to arrive at a situation, using 1TR where I see three images on the splash screen i) Debian ii) Gentoo aand iii) macos.

10:09 <chadmed> yes

10:10 <u154ss> Bit of a challenge for me, never done same before. Most don the thinking cap...

10:16 <chadmed> i mean its pretty simple

10:16 <chadmed> shrink your debian rootfs using debian tooling

10:17 <chadmed> go back to macos and run the asahi installer again, installing a new os into the free space created

10:17 <chadmed> then follow the guide

10:21 <u154ss> @chadmed indeed, simple if you have done it multiple times, for me, I must approach things with a considered approach as I do NOT want to torpedo my existing Debian installation again. If it is (the Gentoo) installation) successful, I would probably wipe Debian and do a an install on the ex-Debian partition ca. 350GB.

10:47 <leio> I guess then you could shrink from macOS instead to see how it goes, if you'd re-do it anyways if first is successful?

10:47 <leio> but I don't know how much space you have to play around with where

13:05 <u154ss> @chadmed Did as you suggested - created a seperate APFS stup and Linux root partition. Installed a minimal fedora image in the partition. Then switched to your wiki and continued. Downloaded a Gentoo image (install.iso), ran genstrap.sh and rebooted into Grub and selected Gentoo Live Image. Unfortunately, immediately after "LoadingInitial Ramdisk" I am receiving "XHCE timeout on event type 0..." messages, it would seem in a loop. No terminal input possi

13:08 <u154ss> The keyboard/mouse are dead. I tried swapping the mouse/keyboard into the USB-A ports, no difference. Peripherals still dead. At this stage, I have no ideas. At least my Debian image is still here... Again, I am running an M2 Mini.

13:08 <u154ss> stup = stub

13:09 <u154ss> XHCE = XHCI

13:10 <chadmed> that sounds like it could be a red herring. if it was just a usb issue youd still get sent to a tty

13:11 <chadmed> i can try play around with a from-scratch install next weekend, its been a while since i did one (would have been around the time i updated genstrap to work with fedora)

13:15 <u154ss> Fair enough. I booted into the Gentoo Live Image a few times, swapping USB cables etc. No change, still the XHCI... messages with keyboard and mouse dead. Thanks for the assistance anyway.

13:16 <u154ss> I am typing this from the same environment (Hardware) as I tried to boot the Gentoo Live Image stuff.