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<marcan>
I wouldn't trust that that works for dcp either
<marcan>
so that needs to be fixed either way (what I suggested was building the L2 PT then doing an in-place swap)
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<sven>
yeah, this can (and should) all be done atomically
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<_jannau_>
I don't see how it can be easily done atomically with the dart / iopgtbl split as is
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<sven>
i vaguely remember two possibilities. one of them was to create a shadow pagetable and just memcpy to the locked first level table in the flush callback or something. i think the other one was more annoying to implement but didn't require the shadow copy
<sven>
but it's been a while, let me take a brief look after $work
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<_jannau_>
I should still have your notes
<sven>
maybe those ideas also don’t work because of some subtleties in overlooked
<sven>
*I
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<povik>
what typical ways are there to enable verbose logging from kexts?
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<povik>
there's a level of verbosity the AOP driver can do i am not unlocking
<povik>
i tried looking around for plausible bootargs, but that didn't do it
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<sven>
i think i dumped all bootargs at some point, let's see if i can find that again
<povik>
no, that's not it, that debugs the ADMAC instance of course
<povik>
but aop-audio-debug?
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<povik>
that didn't print anything new, but maybe i should try on a machine that has nonempty aop audio (mac mini has no mic, but the driver still probes)
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<chadmed>
incredible scenes in the pipewire issue right now, some gigabrain has suggested hacking an FFT algorithm into ALSA to do the DSP at the driver level instead of in userspace
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<sven>
it must be faster if it's running in kernel mode ofc!
<chadmed>
im sure no one would ever abuse an interface that would by design _have_ to allow loading arbitrary binary data into kernel memory
<povik>
well that's no different from other firmware kernel loads
<maz>
you mean, like a BPF program?
* maz
runs...
<povik>
:)
<sven>
:>
<chadmed>
touche
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<mps>
ahah, yes
<sven>
maybe we can implement the FFT as a BPF program!
<mps>
nowadays everything want to run in kernel space
<maz>
sven: don't go there, please...
<povik>
now sven got me interested
<sven>
don't worry, i'm joking. though it's probably possible
<sven>
povik: loading firmware and handing it off to a device is a bit different from parsing some complex data structure or even interpreting some byte code
<povik>
that's not the case though
<povik>
the suggestion is having the filter chain baked into kernel code
<povik>
only the data would have to be loaded
<povik>
(the impulse responses)
<povik>
franky the original idea is a sane suggestion
<mps>
it would make sense if it runs on dedicated coproccesor imo
<chadmed>
the idea for doing it in pipewire is that the infrastructure is 99.999% of the way there already, and all we'd need to agree on is a "standard" way of representing the device to the sound server
<povik>
yeah, but the argument against is we have to trust userspace
<chadmed>
i think the trust is more in the driver itself, e.g. our driver maps the default L and R channels to woofers which mitigates virtually all possibility of damaging the array when coupled with the volume limiter
<povik>
well that covers some cases of accidental damage
<povik>
but then you can open the device for 6 channels if you are an outright evil userspace
<chadmed>
true
<chadmed>
but then if youre an evil userspace you could also just replace the FIRs on disk and have the kernel load some ridiculous thing that just explodes every driver
<povik>
ha, found the loophole :)
<povik>
the solution is authenticating the FIRs, of course!
<povik>
anyway i will be happy if the issue goes either way
<chadmed>
ship hashes of every known good fir with the kernel source and compile them into the driver
<povik>
or compute the frequency image of the FIRs on load and check them against a safe envelope :p
<chadmed>
i wont really care if it ends up in the kernel, i just think its waaaay more work than it really needs to be for the sake of saving the three people on earth using these machines without a sound server and who might have installed a broken asound.conf
<chadmed>
without reaaally doing much to shield the device from malicious actors
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<mps>
chadmed: who are other two (beside me)
<mps>
jk
<chadmed>
suckless devs :P
<j`ey>
does anyone else pulling from asahi github, sometimes not get all tags? for example I have asahi-5.19-1 asahi-5.19-3, but not -2, even though I see it in the interface here https://github.com/AsahiLinux/linux/tags
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<povik>
chadmed: it is way more work
<povik>
i will bring up we may have unsafe PCMs even with volume caps next time i push the macaudio driver, we will see what the kernel folk say
<povik>
maybe we will end up with the handshake to userspace
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<ChaosPri1>
what about having the crossover and volume limit in the kernel and filters in userspace
<povik>
the filters are the safety feature
<ChaosPri1>
s/filters/impulse response/
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<povik>
i am not sure what you mean by that split
<povik>
the crossover/filtering is natural to do as a single step
<ChaosPri1>
kernel checks the volume and the frequency of incoming audio and rejects unsafe input by either clamping the volume/filtering out the frequiencies.
<ChaosPri1>
or rejecting the whole audio packet
<ChaosPri1>
while userspace does the rest of the things that make the speakers sound good
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<dottedmag>
chadmed: They would think M1/M2 suck and wouldn't touch it
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<povik>
ChaosPri1: ah, then the disadvantage may be that the frequency check in kernel isn't all that different from doing the full processing, and is additional computational work
<ChaosPri1>
well, yes, but is there another solution that both protects from misbehaving userspace and does not put the whole audio processing in the kernel?
<povik>
i guess no. if you want airtight protection from userspace
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<povik>
so, looking into sound/* of the kernel:
<povik>
Searching 2545 files for "kernel_fpu_begin"
<povik>
0 matches
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<j`ey>
that seems to be an x86ism? it's called kernel_neon_begin for arm64
<povik>
ah
<povik>
then no wonder
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<j`ey>
povik: why? you want to simd some stuff?
<_jannau_>
an in-kernel audio filter should use neon
<_jannau_>
chadmed: there are PC laptop speakers which can be destroyed by a compressed audio signal. Ask VLC's "volume boost" over 100%
<povik>
j`ey: well i was wondering if someone already did the unspeakable of signal processing in kernel
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<povik>
(kernel_neon_begin still has zero hits in sound/*)
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<maz>
povik: AFAIK, it is mostly used in crypto code.
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<mps>
povik: I have this in dmesg output `[ 1.903740] tas2770 1-0032: ASoC: error at snd_soc_dai_set_tdm_slot on tas2770 ASI1: -22`
<mps>
though sound works fine
<mps>
mbp 2020
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<povik>
that's ok (although bug in spewing false error messages)
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<mps>
ok
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<marcan>
povik: KORG put an entire multi-mode synth in the kernel, but then again they also violate the GPL left and right, so probably not an example to follow
<marcan>
(my piano keyboard runs linux and I know too much about it for my own good)
<marcan>
but yeah, no, I don't see in-kernel DSP flying any time soon
<marcan>
I'd be more interested in just how well can we configure the speaker amps to provide basic safety
<marcan>
can they implement e.g. a simple highpass?
<marcan>
what about the monitoring features, can the kernel use those to detect badness happening and kill things before physical damage happens?
<marcan>
reminder that I have a pile of machines and AppleCare on all of the expensive ones, so if I *have* to blow some speakers up to make sure nobody else does, I can do that.
<marcan>
it would be interesting to find out if e.g. the feedback stuff can detect the speaker diaphragm hitting mechanical limits (which might cause a detectable current pattern)
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<marcan>
(on another note, a friend just got their T2 Mac back from Apple after it blew its speakers up today. with macOS.)
<marcan>
(so even macOS isn't immune to this...)
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<marcan>
povik: TAS2764 DC_BLK0.HPF_FREQ_PB can highpass at up to 800Hz
<marcan>
chadmed: that sounds good enough to protect tweeters?
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<povik>
marcan: how did i miss that! that's not too low
<povik>
though i can't find a shape for the filter in the datasheet
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<povik>
it's -3 dB at 800 hz
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<marcan>
I assume it's a 1-pole filter
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<marcan>
wouldn't be hard to test
<povik>
yeah
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<marcan>
honestly, I get the feeling that with per-speaker this and a volume cap in the DT, we can probably deal with most of the blowing up speakers problem
<marcan>
if we lose a little loudness/headroom to safety, so be it
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<j`ey>
marcan: you store the device link in dchid->helper_link, but it's never used again, so I think it can just be a local var
<j`ey>
and seems to be, in other drivers that use DL_FLAG_AUTOREMOVE_CONSUMER
<sven>
so for ATCPHY there are essentially five or so different "logical" register ranges (for which I want a single RegMap each) that apple splits into 15+ regs entries in the ATC. is there anything to represent that in m1n1? e.g. something like REGMAPS = [ATCPhy, regmap_offset(ATCPhy, 0x200), regmap_offset(ATCPhy, 0x400), ...]?
<sven>
doesn't matter much for atcphy.py but would be nice to also make the atcphy tracer aware of all register I know about
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<marcan>
j`ey: yeah, it can just be checked for NULL and thrown away, some other drivers do that
<marcan>
sven: there isn't, but that doesn't look too hard to add
<sven>
ok, i'll give it a shot then
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<_jannau_>
phoronix sees the m2 macbook slower than m1 mac mini in tests using all core, I wonder if that's just thermal throttling or something else
<_jannau_>
only benchmarking I did on the m2 macbook pro was kernel compiling and it was clearly faster than m1 but had running fans
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<rowang077[m]>
Most likely throttling. It loses something like 25%+ of peak performance due to thermals.
<rowang077[m]>
*On OSX
<_jannau_>
there 13 with more than 30% difference and 6 with more than 50% https://openbenchmarking.org/result/2208099-PTS-APPLEM2896&sgm=1&swl=1&sor&sgm=1&swl=1&hgv=Apple+MacBook+Air+-+M2&rmm=MSI+MS-14C6+-+Core+i7+1280P%2CASUS+G513QY+-+Ryzen+9+5900HX%2CThinkPad+X13+Gen3+-+Ryzen+7+6850U&ppt=D&ftt=Apple+Mac+Mini+-+M1&ftb=Apple+MacBook+Air+-+M2
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