marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | "Does XXX work yet?": https://alx.sh/fs | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-alt #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<orowith2os>
Apparently there was a Matrix bridge before, but it got shut down since people kept abusing it. Would using Matrix, and/or maybe bridged to a platform like Discord which is a lot more user friendly, be considered in the future?
<orowith2os>
I'd love to help out where I can with Asahi Linux but IRC doesn't feel right to use, especially since it's pretty limited compared to the alternatives.
<orowith2os>
I'd prefer using *anything* else, even some niche chat protocol, if it meant I didn't have to use IRC.
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<veloek>
orowith2os: I feel quite the opposite. IRC is the most available and open platform out there. You can use whatever client you want and I don't think there's a device in the world that doesn't have one. Also, it's based on open standards and anyone can implement their own server/client. Another awesome feature is that it's text based which means my client can run in a terminal and not need some bloated
<veloek>
electron based app. Learn to embrace it :-)
<orowith2os>
You can still bridge IRC to other chat platforms, many of which are preferred.
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<orowith2os>
I'd love to embrace IRC, but even if it's the most available and open, it's also a major pain to use, at least for me. Just finding a client that I'm comfortable with took a long while, and finding one that doesn't look horrible is even harder.
<TellowKrinkle>
You can still set up your own matrix bridge. That's what I use.
<orowith2os>
I'd still prefer it if there was one bridge that I could use that's already set up for me, and not have to go through the process of hosting anything myself. I don't have the time nor energy to deal with IRC and bridges and projects that refuse to make their platforms more easily accessible.
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<veloek>
If you have access to a shell somewhere, I would recommend running irssi/weechat inside screen/tmux there. Then you can access it from anywhere using only a terminal and ssh, and you stay connected and don't miss out on the logs.
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<i509vcb>
I do have a gripe with most irc servers by default advertising your ip address and needing to manually configure hiding that from whois after registering a nickname
<i509vcb>
if replacing irc was a requirement I'd definitely prefer zulip over all other options given it's self hostable, open source and all the individual channels can just exist a stream on one big fdo zulip
<orowith2os>
veloek: I've already looked into irssi, still not my cup of tea. It's just IRC as a whole that I don't like. Sure, it's simple, but for actual work it feels like any other platform is more usable.
<orowith2os>
Unless IRC gains support for federation similar to Matrix, images, markdown formatting, and is overall more of a visibly pleasing platform, I don't see myself using it in the real world *at all*. Even using it now makes me want to wipe it from my system and never touch it again, that's why I've postponed trying to contribute to Asahi Linux for so long.
<abby>
irc can be federated, see efnet
<i509vcb>
ironically it's actually a good thing suspend doesn't work on my m2 air because it keeps cloudirc connected overnight so I stay online even if I am stingy
<i509vcb>
although this channel is logged
<sven>
most developers working on asahi prefer irc to at least discord, sorry. I wish there was something with discord like UX that wasn’t to closed and didn’t require a electron app but I haven’t found anything
<orowith2os>
Matrix?
<i509vcb>
Element desktop requires electron, matrix can have electronless clients but feature support is varying
<sven>
worse UX than discord imho
<orowith2os>
Still better than IRC
<sven>
and worse moderation tools from what I’ve told
<i509vcb>
I just run element as a pinned tab in firefox anyways
<sven>
according to you
<sven>
not according to most asahi developers
<orowith2os>
Comparing my experiences with IRC to Matrix: it definitely is better. Plus, many other FOSS projects, including GNOME, use Matrix, and it makes life a lot easier to contribute to them.
<orowith2os>
It also lowers the barrier to entry to communicating with devs.
<i509vcb>
until you get spammers mass creating accounts on the kde homeserver and you have to consider blanket banning that entire homeserver
<mps>
heh, even as matrix client I use weechat
<orowith2os>
i509vcb: and moderation is better on IRC?
<orowith2os>
from what I've heard, it definitely isn't
<i509vcb>
I don't do any moderation on either
<sven>
from my experience it is. Or at least we know how to deal with spammers on irc
<i509vcb>
Though I do have moderation permissions for Smithay's matrix
<orowith2os>
And how do you do so?
<sven>
worst case you can just IP ban ranges or vpns while on Matrix you have to rely on effectively the biggest homeservers
<sven>
We’ve dealt with spam and abuse on irc for 10+ years and it usually works fine *shrug*
<orowith2os>
The issue with IP bans is that there are only so many IPs to go around, and banning one IP because one person abused it could mean locking out hundreds of others. IMO that's just not a clean solution.(And yes, I've dealt with an IP ban resulting in others being banned too; I was affected at one point.)
<i509vcb>
there is the radical solution of manually approving joining users but that is quite a time drain
<i509vcb>
and even then it's still going to fail somewhere
<i509vcb>
(I recall seeing a alpha discord feature where the server moderation had to approve entries via application)
<sven>
abuse handling is all about trade offs in the end anyway
<sven>
and we’re used to the ones on irc
<sven>
so yeah, sorry, it’s not perfect but irc will remain our main communication platform for now
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<Retr0id>
i509vcb, I also run element in a pinned tab - I tried looking around for something native but I was extremely disappointed by the quality of matrix clients in general. It seems that it's hard to write a good one when it's such a complex chat protocol. IRC just works
<i509vcb>
On Linux nothing is truly native lol
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