marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | "Does XXX work yet?": https://alx.sh/fs | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-alt #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<eldondev>
Anything special I should know trying to use the dwc3 endpoints in asahi fedora remix in gadget mode?
<eldondev>
I don't see any specific docs on it,
<eldondev>
but I did see where m1n1 embeds some of the dwc3, I assume it is using that to do gadget stuff with a recovery mode?
<nicolas17>
eldondev: I don't see how Asahi would be involved there?
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<u154ss>
A general question.. the last asahi.6.*.* kernel release was on the 19th of January. Any idea when the next release is coming?
<leio>
it will be rebased on 6.8 soon(tm) for upcoming Fedora 40.
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<hdbngr>
will this also uplift m3 support?
<j`ey>
no
<j`ey>
just a rebase onto a newer kerne;
<j`ey>
l
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<u154ss>
Thanks for the info. I am running Debian anyway.
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<Guest1040>
hello?
<kidplayer666>
hello
<Guest1040>
oh hi, I'm new to irc. Just wanted to make sure it was working xD
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<kidplayer666>
lol, dw
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<sospi>
I, I'm an asahi user (M1 macbook air) and I want to know if it is normal to have high memory usage on asahi. For exemple, I'm running sway + 4 falkon tab + Hex chat and i'm at 60% ram usage. It makes quite impossible to use firefox normally (always >80% with a few tab open) and my pc regularry crash bc of this... I already had 8gb pc and never ran into this.. Thx :)
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<PaulFertser>
sospi: with default settings Linux always uses free mem for caching access to storage. The cache is dropped when more memory is needed. You should provide more info about your situation. Also Linux doesn't crash when it's low on RAM, it runs an oom-killer to terminate the most suitable process to free up memory.
<j`ey>
if the oom killer works that is..
<j`ey>
sospi: can you run 'swapon --summary' do you have a swapfile, or just the zram?
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<PaulFertser>
j`ey: yes, having oom killer do its job is no joy but no system crash either.
<PaulFertser>
I would say discussing memory pressure issues makes little sense without seeing /proc/meminfo .
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<eldondev>
nicolas17: I was just wondering if I needed to do anything special regarding DTB's etc to use the dual role controller in device mode on my Mac Mini(2020), that feels like an asahi thing.
<eldondev>
Also, the article I linked does some funky thunderbolt linking thing to link the two machines.
<eldondev>
Looks like macos supports some sort of "thunderbolt bridge," which also sounds intrigueing, but thunderbolt isn't on the support matrix yet.
<eldondev>
Sorry if I'm talking too much about this stuff or in the wrong place :(
<eldondev>
Just trying not to damage my hardware as it's the only resource I have to work with Asahi on.
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<kidplayer666>
PaulFertser: I've had several issues with memory associated crashes, so i wouldn't be so sure about that
<kidplayer666>
also, anyone done an icc profile for the mac screens?
<kidplayer666>
cause the default one seems quite a bit oversaturated
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<leio>
some fedora amazon images I deal with also routinely freeze for 10 minutes and are unresponsive when OOM occurs before it recovers from some kills; can't SSH, can't log in from console, nothing, until eventually they wake up again after killing something; admittedly that's older than fedora 39 though.
<leio>
(existing SSH sessions don't move either)
<leio>
I believe systemd-oomd or something hopefully made it better in newer versions when enabled
<PaulFertser>
kidplayer666: issues meaning the kernel paniced or watchdog triggered or what?
<PaulFertser>
Sure, freezing for minutes (and hours) can happen especially when there's swap space enabled. But it's not a crash.
<j`ey>
that's basically a crash for users
<PaulFertser>
Crash is called "panic" in Linux terminology and in that case a distro can often use some machinery to save a crash dump and then reboot (enabled by default in RHEL). Another kind of crash I can imagine is when hardware watchdog forces reboot. Freezing for minutes (and sometimes hours) due to low RAM and then coninuing to run normally is by no sane definition a crash, I'm pretty sure.
<j`ey>
if a users computer freezes for several minutes, doesnt really matter what it's called!
<j`ey>
are you expecting people to just leave it for hours in case it starts working again?
<PaulFertser>
I think it does a lot because if you wait you'll probably have much of your essential runtime data intact.
<eldondev>
Right! Even my nontechnical family members will hold down the power button until they get a reboot in that scenario. They definitely call it a crash.
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<PaulFertser>
If you observe "swap thrashing" scenario and you want to give it a chance to recover yes, you'd wait.
<eldondev>
But nontechnical people, who use the term crash, often lack the tools to observe swap thrashing.
<PaulFertser>
Most PMU ICs will not reboot when someone hold power button no matter for how long. Holding power button usually turns the host fully off eventually but doesn't power it back unless you release and press again.
<leio>
I call it a freeze
<PaulFertser>
eldondev: we were discussing sospi's report where it's clear the RAM usage was monitored by operator.
<PaulFertser>
Either way sospi isn't here to clarify and guessing what was meant is moot.
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<eldondev>
True
<leio>
on that one, I would say 60% might easily be normal if whatever is in those falkon tabs slurps memory; It doesn't sound like cache is counted or it'd have been a 95% RAM report, not 60% (except when it was a fresh boot still)
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<leio>
the whole argument was due to semantics and somewhat arguing that it isn't as good as a completely freeze for users, while one side argued that it's bad while the other just wanted technical correctness of the terms :)
<eldondev>
Well, that's fair, but we don't actually have information about the technical correctness of the terms AFAICT.
<eldondev>
The user reported a crash. Is it possible to have a crash without a panic?
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<eldondev>
For example, a hardware fault which actually kills the processor without linux being able to panic?
<leio>
I forgot the end of OP by now already; if for the user the computer doesn't do anything, they say it's a crash
<leio>
if a watchdog reboots it relatively quickly, it'd be a sudden reboot instead
<leio>
but yeah, we can't really tell without further info; might be that it was meant that a specific program only "crashes"
<leio>
to me it sounds like a 5+ minute freeze that isn't waited on
<PaulFertser>
For this argument to be less meaningful and at least somewhat educational, can someone please tell if Asahi has a hardware watchdog that reboots on kernel panic and whether it's activated by default in Fedora? Another question is whether Fedora automatically kexecs a kernel to collect crash dump and save it for later analysis prior to automatic reboot like RHEL does?
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<leio>
asahi can't kexec afaik though
<PaulFertser>
I remember that it can't fully kexec because so many aux hardware can't be properly fully re-inited. But is it true even for the PCIe controller to access NVMe? It's not like anything else is needed to save the crash info is it?
<j`ey>
cant kexec at all
<j`ey>
due to CPUs staying online
<j`ey>
the kernel doesnt support kexec when using the spin-tables way of onlining CPUs
<eldondev>
I found that while checking out m1n1 last night.
<PaulFertser>
I mean like /dev/watchdog created and userspace feeding it by default
<eldondev>
I see a /dev/watchdog0 on my machine,
<eldondev>
Systemd uses the watchdog in some scenarios, but I don't see it turned on by default.
<eldondev>
I could be reading it wrong.
<nicolas17>
eldondev: yeah, I think thunderbolt is not supported at all on asahi yet
<j`ey>
PaulFertser: there's nothing asahi specific w/ the watchdog
<kidplayer666>
i consider it a crash since everything becomes unresponsive (including stuff like the touchbar) and even waiting a while yields no reaction, so i am forced to do a forced shutdown
<PaulFertser>
j`ey: I'm unfamiliar with Fedora hence asking
<eldondev>
Runtime watchdog is one of the first things I do on systems that can be resilient to reboots.
<eldondev>
But I'm not familiar with any linux distro that enables it by default.
<PaulFertser>
BTW, how does the watchdog work here, is it inside the SoC an generates a pulse on RESET line and that line is also connected to all the essential peripherals?
<PaulFertser>
Asahi Fedora might be enabling more dependencies automatically, like it does for speakersafetyd
<PaulFertser>
eldondev: OpenWrt enables watchdog by default
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<PaulFertser>
j`ey: (cpu onlining) is it related to not using PSCI as designed and is it likely to change any time soon?
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<j`ey>
Hopefully there's a path forward there, but requires talking to the community more
<j`ey>
the community = upstream
<kidplayer666>
but is there a way to change the icc profile? kde settings doesn't seem to allow changing it
<j`ey>
kidplayer666: I dont think so, until kde 6
<j`ey>
janneg: You talked about trying ICC profiles right?
<kidplayer666>
the thing is, apparently you can add profiles and such
<leio>
to me it was like "4 falkon tabs" - OK, then those might be taking anywhere between 200MB to 6GB
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<PaulFertser>
NoScript helps a lot to manage web browser tabs RAM consumption
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<Illya>
I have a caldigit element hub which is a thunderbolt4 hub but as far as I understand it should fallback to usb4/tb3/usb3. The mac seems to receive power from it but nothing else and there's no messages in dmesg other than a notice from macsmc-power. Should this device 'just' work? anything I have to do to signal that I want it to fallback maybe?
<sven>
it won’t fallback due to how the pd controller works
<sven>
from what I can tell there’s no way to tell it to never negotiate tbt mode unfortunately
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<Illya>
ah that's annoying, guess I'm just waiting for full thunderbolt support then. Do you happen to know if there's work being done on it publicly somewhere?
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