#wayland on 2022-12-16 — irc logs at oftc.irclog.whitequark.org

2022-08-14 19:47 ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput | register your nick to speak

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02:51 <wlb> wayland-protocols Issue #110 closed \o/ (Allow clients to access the location of the mouse cursor https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/issues/110)

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08:16 <pq> All Wayland protocol objects *must* be destroyable somehow, so I think it would be reasonable to have wayland-scanner at least warn (and error in strict mode... did it have a strict mode?) when an interface has none.

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08:39 <wlb> weston/main: Michael Olbrich * compositor: commit subsurfaces before the main surface https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/commit/a943e5e70e4d libweston/compositor.c

08:39 <wlb> weston Merge request !1026 merged \o/ (compositor: commit subsurfaces before the main surface https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/merge_requests/1026)

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11:28 <wlb> weston Issue #704 opened by Pekka Paalanen (pq) Do not run CI on branches that are not MRs? https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/704 [CI]

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12:33 <pq> JEEB, would you like to take a look at https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pq/color-and-hdr/-/merge_requests/19 (TFs)?

12:38 <JEEB> pq: I'd be careful with calling sRGB as 2.2 since I think the difference between 2.2 and sRGB is that sRGB technically is more complex

12:41 <pq> JEEB, yes: sRGB is encoded with the two-piece function and intended to be decoded with a pure 2.2 power-law.

12:41 <JEEB> ok, my understanding was that both linearization and delinearization utilized the two-piece function?

12:42 <pq> I'm finding the link for you, but that is very long story... and very common misconception, because roughly no-one has paid for the final spec.

12:43 <pq> JEEB, https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pq/color-and-hdr/-/issues/12

12:47 <pq> The fact that decoding algorithm is not the inverse of the encoding algorithm, and the result is intentionally different from the original is throwing programmers off left and right until it sinks in.

12:48 <pq> but it's also a question of what you want: the "original" or the "display" data

12:48 <pq> Wayland compositors want the "display" data.

12:49 <pq> "original" OTOH might not even be recoverable, because in practise you have no idea how stuff was actually encoded.

12:50 <JEEB> yes, you only know how something is flagged in a non-linear state, if even that.

12:51 <JEEB> I'll also throw this at the zimg/zscale person

12:51 <pq> cool :-)

12:55 <JEEB> transfer functions are a fun bunch; ST240 is the one where at least one implementation had to revert to doing the Wrong Thing spec-wise since people who (for some ungodly reason) were generating such clips expected BT.1886 delinearization.

12:56 <pq> haha, oh dear

12:56 <JEEB> https://github.com/sekrit-twc/zimg/commit/dbc745020255ec3aa910a5b9a34b242bf5c556c8

13:00 <pq> IIRC ST240 does defines both OETF and EOTF separately.

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13:02 <pq> hmm, they do look like mathematical inverses of each other

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13:11 <wlb> weston/main: Philipp Zabel * linux-dmabuf: add missing includes and declarations https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/commit/0706569ac912 libweston/linux-dmabuf.h

13:11 <wlb> weston Merge request !1080 merged \o/ (linux-dmabuf: add missing includes and declarations https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/merge_requests/1080)

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13:32 <JEEB> pq: yea, I think they're inverses, so that part is OK. and personally I might have just told a Large Video Site to override that transfer on their side as the input variable, so that the library could do the Right Thing.

13:34 <pq> JEEB, interesting discussion anyway, now I'm thinking https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pq/color-and-hdr/-/merge_requests/19/diffs#note_1690702

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13:49 <wlb> weston/main: Philipp Zabel * compositor: extract mode parsing from windowed output configuration https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/commit/553387dd078d compositor/main.c

13:49 <wlb> weston/main: Philipp Zabel * compositor: configure VNC output size via weston.ini https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/commit/0ece6cb43650 compositor/main.c

13:49 <wlb> weston Merge request !1072 merged \o/ (Allow to configure VNC output size via weston.ini https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/merge_requests/1072)

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13:54 <wlb> weston/main: Philipp Zabel * backend-vnc: move accumulated damage with output https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/commit/ce4cf2d0602f libweston/backend-vnc/vnc.c

13:54 <wlb> weston Merge request !1071 merged \o/ (Move tracked damage with VNC output https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/merge_requests/1071)

13:57 <JEEB> pq: also I would be careful in saying that static HDR metadata is *required* for handling PQ content. MaxFALL and MaxCLL are quite useful to have, but it can still be handled without (often applications do dynamic scene based brightness calculation even if the static metadata is available)

13:59 <pq> JEEB, point, but if you just map the full PQ range, I bet it's going to look awful, so *some* metadata is necessary in practise, whether it's given or extracted.

14:00 <JEEB> yea, but I think that's common between the different HDR transfers. whether it's HLG, PQ or extended sRGB (or even linear HDR)

14:01 <pq> not for HLG

14:02 <pq> HLG actually specifies what the display needs to do to the dynamic range, so production knows what it will do.

14:03 <JEEB> if as an example you output to SDR sRGB, you still need to tone map it after linearizing in order to then encode it as sRGB for display

14:03 <pq> while with PQ it's undefined what the display does, but it must do something

14:05 <JEEB> (but yes, HLG is indeed defined in scene space as opposed to display space, if I got the wording correct)

14:05 <pq> I think that depends... HLG's SDR portion is supposed to be backward-compatible

14:07 <pq> I'm a bit wary of scene-referred, because in Wayland we are a display system, and fundamentally we must always get display-referred content. But HLG should work just fine for both input and/or output.

14:07 <pq> so it's a question of what one means with "scene-referred"

14:09 <pq> to my understanding, the HLG signal is kind of a middle-ground: it's not scene-referres, because it has already been adjusted for display and artistic, but it's not purely display-referred because it's kind of display-agnostic and has defined that OOTF that a display itself must apply.

14:10 <pq> and the OOTF depends on the display capabilities

14:11 <pq> Artistic OOTF and HLG defined OOTF are independent things, and the end-to-end OOTF includes both.

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14:24 <pq> JEEB, I revised it based on your comments so far.

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19:09 <DemiMarie> pq: yes, the strict mode is the one in which wayland-scanner validates the protocol against the DTD. That will require the registry destructor MR, which I recommend merging even though it is an absolutely disgusting hack.

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20:19 <JEEB> pq: https://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-r/opb/rep/R-REP-BT.2380-2-2018-PDF-E.pdf , see table 2.3 (page 14). that seems to define both an OETF and EOTF for sRGB, pointing towards 61966-2-1 Annex F [2.9]

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20:42 <swick[m]> the whole sRGB thing is utterly ridiculous

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