ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
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<wlb> wayland-protocols Merge request !200 closed (Add none mode to xdg-decoration)
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<orowith2os[m]> I wish content-type used a bitmask on the content types
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<orowith2os[m]> looking at adding an additional content type, and it's not mutually exclusive with the other content types
<orowith2os[m]> or, future other content types
<wlb> wayland-protocols Merge request !246 opened by Dallas Strouse (orowith2os) content-type: Add "sensitive" content type https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/246
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<danieldg> there are likely windows that will sometimes show sensitive content and sometimes not: consider a password prompt that has a "show password" button - it becomes sensitive when you click that
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<kennylevinsen> Such content is also not safe on screen though
<kennylevinsen> I wonder if screen share blocking is not mostly user preference, e.g. I wouldn't want to share chats, emails other browser tabs not relevant to the sharing session, they are not "sensitive"
<orowith2os[m]> kennylevinsen: most of those also aren't dangerous to share
<orowith2os[m]> Iffy, sure, but not dangerous
<danieldg> there's no one-size-fits-all scenario here: if you're in private then nothing needs to be obscured on the screen, vs if I'm doing a presentation I don't want anything beyond the thing I'm showing to be visible
<orowith2os[m]> danieldg: if you're doing a presentation, you're likely to also have a dedicated monitor workspace or way for apps to display their content and their content alone on there
<orowith2os[m]> (and opening new windows on that dedicated workspace could/should not be allowed, imo - drag em over explicitly)
<kennylevinsen> orowith2os[m]: the damage caused by sharing my email inbox would be far greater than the damage caused by accidentally showing, say, a password
<kennylevinsen> So "danger" is subjective
<orowith2os[m]> that is also true, and kinda nonsolvable unless the web has a similar "content-type" hint
<kennylevinsen> (I can change the password and is guarded by a second factor, I cannot u share sensitive content)
<kennylevinsen> My point is that "sensitive" is context specific
<orowith2os[m]> maybe it would be better to just have plain content types - can always expand them to e.g. documents and email
<kennylevinsen> I wonder if it's the right approach to try to mark content as "sensitive"
<kennylevinsen> vs e.g. single-window sharing
<danieldg> yeah, single-window sharing is more intuitive and actually does what marking sensitive seems to be trying to do
<orowith2os[m]> an idea for marking content as sensitive would actually be letting the compositor know to provide a warning when sharing content marked as such
<orowith2os[m]> not that single-window sharing is a bad idea - it's definitely better here, but not exclusive to a sensitive content type
<danieldg> orowith2os[m]: but why not have that warning all the time?
<danieldg> if it's not overly intrusive, it is nice to have a 'here's what you will be sharing' preview
<orowith2os[m]> mmmmm, yeah, thinking about it, it's kinda a non-issue
<orowith2os[m]> screensharing is already an explicit user action, by requirement
<kennylevinsen> I think I'd have a hard time knowing what content should be marked sensitive, and as a user a hard time trusting that stuff is marked sensitive and would be excluded
<orowith2os[m]> I'll go forward with more dedicated content types then
<orowith2os[m]> needs an updated content-type protocol for protocol errors though
<orowith2os[m]> if someone doesn't get on that before I do
<kennylevinsen> orowith2os[m]: it might be good to have some example uses on both sides to show what behavior such types enable
<orowith2os[m]> mm, I brought it up elsewhere, and a problem that was seen with content-type is that there's no "use" for content-type, apparently?
<orowith2os[m]> e.g. the game content type could use a frame timing protocol, photo goes for HDR, video also does frame timing
<danieldg> I could see it being useful for things like window placement rules in sway (put all games on the smaller 120Hz monitor not the bigger 60Hz one)
<orowith2os[m]> mm
<orowith2os[m]> could be useful in the recent GNOME Mosaic mockups
<danieldg> not sure how much that would really be used as opposed to just appid-specific rules
<orowith2os[m]> appid-specific rules are not something i think anybody wants to get into here
<orowith2os[m]> I don't think a compositor would like if if they had to list off every video player under the sun in order to use their tiling rules properly
<danieldg> no, the appid-specific stuff would be user-entered
<orowith2os[m]> also not mutually exclusive
<danieldg> or maybe inferred ("you opened org.foogame on DP-2 last time")
<kennylevinsen> orowith2os[m]: the original use of the content-type protocol is setting KMS props which tells the monitor what content is being displayed - so that's the source of the types
<orowith2os[m]> Ah, thanks
<orowith2os[m]> Where should I look for a full list?
<kennylevinsen> It was made generic as there could be other uses, but that's how the current list came to exist - having a similar "this type would allow compositors to be smart about XYZ" use case might be useful for new types
<kennylevinsen> Hang on
<orowith2os[m]> Awwww, no amdgpu support
<orowith2os[m]> I should go bug Lina about supporting it in the Asahi kernel driver
<orowith2os[m]> Thanks
<kennylevinsen> Not sure if any compositors set it as a result of the content type protocol though
<zamundaaa[m]> KWin does
<zamundaaa[m]> Dallas Strouse (she/her) 🧑‍🏫: afaik there's patches for amdgpu to fix that
<orowith2os[m]> Mutter doesn't support the protocol (yet), I can at least expose it to clients hopefully
<orowith2os[m]> I'll look at doing so when an updated version is available
<kennylevinsen> Other uses like enabling/disabling VRR also come to mind
<kennylevinsen> But not sure what a compositor would do in response to "email" for example
<orowith2os[m]> Mm, workspace management?
<orowith2os[m]> I'd like to see it in GNOME
<orowith2os[m]> A dedicated VRR or frame timing protocol seems more appropriate for that use case, but like with many things here, not mutually exclusive
<danieldg> is 'place email on workspace 2' any better or worse than 'place thunderbird on workspace 2'?
<orowith2os[m]> I'd argue better
<danieldg> setting power savings modes might also be a thing compositors do that may not fit with client control
<orowith2os[m]> I like to try out tons of random apps, so having non-app-specific window management (with specific where desired) would be nice
<zamundaaa[m]> Dallas Strouse (she/her) 🧑‍🏫: content type is not really suitable for that sort of thing. It's too dynamic for that
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<zamundaaa[m]> Or do you want your browser window to be put into a different workspace when you open a web mail client / youtube / whatever?
<orowith2os[m]> I was thinking more something that tied that together with the window manager
<danieldg> maybe if it's opening a "chrome app" window just for the email client?
<danieldg> (imo that's a dumb feature but someone must like it)
<orowith2os[m]> This is probably fit for another protocol, but the browser can say "hey, I'm a web browser, and I'm playing video. Tell me if you'd like me to move myself or my tab out to another workspace"
<zamundaaa[m]> danieldg: but that is not what the content type is suitable for
<orowith2os[m]> In any case
<orowith2os[m]> It's just one use case
<zamundaaa[m]> You'd need something more like an 'app type' protocol for window management tasks
<zamundaaa[m]> The content type protocol is more meant for what the hdmi content type thing is for, like changing the latency policy, changing upscaling filters, thag sort of thing
<orowith2os[m]> Doesn't mean it should be limited to that either
<orowith2os[m]> I'm going to need to rework the protocol anyways, so we can also make this an app-type protocol rather than content-type in the process
<orowith2os[m]> Afaik most other properties a compositor would expect for window management already exist in other places
<zamundaaa[m]> I don't want app type instead of content type
<zamundaaa[m]> We need both
<orowith2os[m]> (Content-type can be a part of app-type too)
<orowith2os[m]> So app-type: browser, content-type: video
<orowith2os[m]> Or app-type: game, content-type: shooter
<zamundaaa[m]> That doesn't make sense
<zamundaaa[m]> You could be playing a shooter in a browser
<zamundaaa[m]> App and content type are completely separate things
<orowith2os[m]> ~~sub-content-type?~~
<orowith2os[m]> What do you think would be a good design here?
<danieldg> keep it simple if possible, and ideally have an expected "what should this do" for everything
<orowith2os[m]> Simple, I can do
<orowith2os[m]> "what should this do" is more subjective
<orowith2os[m]> Should probably be more "what *may* this do, on top of compositor decisions"
<zamundaaa[m]> Dallas Strouse (she/her) 🧑‍🏫: just make a new app type protocol. Or I guess a compositors could already get that kind of information from .desktop files?
<orowith2os[m]> Oooh, true
<orowith2os[m]> Read a desktop file for the app type, and check the content type from the protocol
<zamundaaa[m]> Yep
<orowith2os[m]> So then, are there any additional content types we might want to have?
<orowith2os[m]> On top of a better protocol design so it can actually expand :0
<orowith2os[m]> *:p
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<danieldg> maybe a "document" or "reading" type where color accuracy is less important and you should more aggressively apply color temperature stuff?
<orowith2os[m]> "document" seems appropriate
<danieldg> it'd also apply to things like termials, IDEs
<orowith2os[m]> I'm not so sure on that
<orowith2os[m]> But could work just as well
<orowith2os[m]> Especially paired with the desktop file categories
<danieldg> what would you consider source code besides a document?
<orowith2os[m]> A colorful document
<orowith2os[m]> Mmm
<orowith2os[m]> Never mind
<danieldg> sure, it needs a separate application category, but I wouldn't consider the content (that is, it's a bunch of text that you read) to be different
<orowith2os[m]> Yeah
<orowith2os[m]> Just hit me
<orowith2os[m]> (and that's why I need to hold more discussions like this....)
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