19:34 <DemiMarie> What would it take to make XWayland no longer require compositor support?

19:34 <DemiMarie> https://github.com/talex5/wayland-proxy-virtwl shows that it can be done, but that code is in OCaml and so (presumably) not suitable for upstream.

19:35 <i509VCB> By no longer require compositor support, with all X11 features or with a reduced feature set?

19:41 <kennylevinsen> DemiMarie: well, it is unlikely that xwm integration will be removed in general, but some compositors might appreciate an easy-to-use standalone xwm thing - mine for example. I'm sure other compositors will pick it up as well rather than bother writing the xwm integration.

19:42 <i509VCB> In theory nothing prevents xwayland from functioning as a plain old wayland client

19:42 <i509VCB> even if the special protocols or compositor side WM does not exist

19:42 <i509VCB> Although in that case XWayland would need to become WM_S0

20:32 <kennylevinsen> Well X features prevent that. E.g., placing windows or knowing where they are

23:08 <DemiMarie> i509vcb kennylevinsen: it needs to run most decently-behaved real-world applications (such as gvim, xterm, emacs, etc).

23:09 <DemiMarie> kennylevinsen: it is okay if applications get fake window positions

23:25 <pac85> personally I think xwayland should try to mimic X behavior as closely as possible, even closer than it does currently. It might be ok to have the option of not writing explicit support but IMHO that possibility should remain.

23:30 <pac85> The way I see it is that if you can save developer time at the cost of breaking several apps and therefore at the expense of user experience you haven't gained much. Having a server acting as a client to a server that also acts as a client is a mess and this is where the problem should be tackled in my opinion. That is, wayland should just have protocols to expose things such as absolute window locations. After all xwayland isn'

23:31 <pac85> After all xwayland isn't the only compatibilty layer, a big one would be wine.

23:45 <pac85> Also you mentioned emacs which afaik does expose things such as absolute window positions to plugins so that you can move emacs's window around with emacs's keybindings.