ChanServ changed the topic of #aarch64-laptops to: Linux support for AArch64 Laptops (Asus NovaGo TP370QL - HP Envy x2 - Lenovo Mixx 630 - Lenovo Yoga C630)
<steev>
by the looks of it, the bluetooth driver doesn't know about our chipset yet
<steev>
qzed: i'll try it on the thinkpad as well, just take a bit more setup there
<szclsya[m]>
steev: oh well. I heard that bluetooth interface are pretty universal (from the M2 blog post), does it mean we can just add the hardware id to kernel and expect it to work?
<steev>
not quite, we need to also add the bits to the dt (the gpios i asked bjorn about earlier)
<steev>
but yeah, once those two things are in place... it should work
<szclsya[m]>
ah, makes sense
<steev>
i checked in bluetooth-next hoping maybe someone had already added it and it hadn't yet made its way down the line, but doesn't appear to be the case
<steev>
it's hard to tell though - i copied the entirety of FileRepository over to my linux install, and the folder i have is qcbtfmuart_hsp8280.inf_arm64_bbb33bd69dc3395b
<steev>
but it has both .tlv and .bin files, as well as a bunch of bXX files
<steev>
ugh, i don't know why it's double signed of by :(
<jhovold>
steev: thanks for testing. Regarding the warnings for the missing i2c devices, I did no longer see them here, but I may have been running with some upcoming i2c fixes from bamse. Will double check.
<jhovold>
szclsya[m]: thanks for confirming!
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<qzed>
steev: nice, I didn't expect it to work on the flex but that's a pleasant surprise
<qzed>
I guess it make sense since the UEFI partition thing was all zeros
<qzed>
next steps are getting GetVariable and SetVariable working and hooking everything up
<qzed>
after that you can hopefully dig into all the secret menus :P
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<moa5505>
Hello ! Any advice on which ARM laptop to buy (and where) ?
<moa5505>
From what I have seen, the x13s looks like the fancier one, the flex 5g looks like a good quality build and the C630 looks like the best bang for buck but it has an older processor.
<moa5505>
Compatibility on the C630 also seems to be better than the rest.
<moa5505>
(Also most models only seem to be available in the US, and I'm in Europe ...)
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<rfs613>
moa5505: you're probably aware the c630 is discontinued by lenovo, so you're probably looking at used ones
<rfs613>
and yes its processor is older than the others, whether this matters depends on your use case
<qzed>
steev: reading and writing variables works now too... now I only need to figure out how to hook this up with the kernel and with efivarfs...
<HdkR>
Blammo, x13s
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<moa5505>
@rfs613 Yeah, I only saw used or refurbished ones
<szclsya[m]>
the soc (8cx gen3) in X13s is significantly more powerful than previous generations, so I'd recommend X13s
<moa5505>
Do you think the snapdragon 850 is enough for web browsing, text editing and light developpment ?
<szclsya[m]>
(sadly they haven't put it in other laptops or tablets
<moa5505>
It's also 1000$ more expensive ^^''
<szclsya[m]>
right... then I guess 850 should handle emacs just fine. I doubt it will perform well with language with lsp though
<clover[m]>
if you can stand the keyboard/hardware, M1 / M2 macbook air is probably the most sensible choice as it has Asahi Linux support, and that project is thriving.
<clover[m]>
i'm really hoping this X13s will be my endgame machine, once more linux support comes
<HdkR>
price to perf the bottom tier ARM macbooks are quite good as well
<clover[m]>
yeah that's what i am saying too
<HdkR>
$1000 for a highend ARM device? That's hard to find :D
<clover[m]>
s/keyboard/keyboard layout/
<gwolf>
moa5505: I am very happy with my c630; is not the latest and as others said it's discontinued (already was a year ago when I got it), but works quite well
<gwolf>
If your needs requires a fast processor for CPU intensive tasks, however... Don't use ARM.
<gwolf>
I do use mine for the precise use case you present.
<moa5505>
Yeah, Apple really changed the whole game with their M1/M2, even in $/perf they are dominating atm... Which was far from being the case 5 years ago
<moa5505>
About the X13s, it really looks amazing I agree
<HdkR>
Flashing an image to a USB drive right now, hopefully the x13s works without...too much pain
<moa5505>
Thanks gwolf, I think given my tight budget that the C630 is the best choice here ...
<szclsya[m]>
moa5505: from what I observe apple's $/perf advantage only holds if you want the bare minimum configuration
<moa5505>
Can you dual boot easily with the C630 ?
<szclsya[m]>
if you want more ram and drive space the price will quickly climbs up (and their ssd aren't replaceable, so there isn't a choice
<moa5505>
@szclsya That's maybe true, but even out of the 8G and swapping the thing is really responsive ...
<clover[m]>
HdkR: you using my ISO?
<clover[m]>
i used balenaetcher to flash it, btw
<szclsya[m]>
moa5505: yeah, I do believe if that is enough for what you do, then it's a fantastic value
<gwolf>
moa5505: Yes, the C630 (usually?) comes with Windows installed, and you can install Linux with a (barely modified) debian-installer
<gwolf>
you end up booting to GRUB, which presents you with a (working!) chooser menu with Windows and Linu
<clover[m]>
steev: am at coffee shop doing paid work rn, but yes, later :)
<clover[m]>
hate how WSL2 just crashes randomly, can't wait to move to baremetal linux on this machine
<steev>
i haven't experienced that here, but admittedly, as soon as i got linux mostly working, i stay in here. occasionally i go into windows to check for updates, but that's pretty much every tuesday because i can never remember when "patch tuesday" is
<clover[m]>
does x13s support 16k page kernels, steev?
<clover[m]>
like how the Apple Silicon macs do it?
<steev>
i honestly have no idea, but my understanding was that there's a lot of shit (still) broken with that in the linux userland
<HdkR>
I could introduce some hacks for some partial 16k page support but running x86 applications with a 16k page size will just break things spuriously
<steev>
"D
<HdkR>
More ideally Linux sprouts support for mixed page size userspace, and IOMMU on Apple devices still ensures 16k IO alignment in the kernel space
<HdkR>
Isn't too unheard of since Nvidia devices also require 64k alignments in x86 land
<clover[m]>
<steev> "i haven't experienced that here,..." <- i get multiple crashes per day. workaround is to run `wsl --shutdown` and wait for it to kill everything then re-launch WSL2
<steev>
qzed: insmods, mount command works, i do see them in there :D
<qzed>
nice, thanks for testing!
<steev>
whenever you do shove them at the mailing lists, cc me and i can send my T-b
<qzed>
will do, but i'll have to do a bit of clean up and thinking about how i structure the secure-os vs uefisecapp stuff (should really be two modules instead of one...)
<steev>
worst case, throw it up, and let the powers that be decide if it should be split
<qzed>
I mean splitting it up isn't the hard part... it's just properly naming things ...
<steev>
yeah, i still let the maintainers decide what to call things :P
<clover[m]>
what's in a name? a rose by any other name would smell as sweet...
<HdkR>
This X13s really has trouble booting off of USB doesn't it
<HdkR>
Sometimes the USB boot device just...doesn't show up
<clover[m]>
reboot from windows and give it a sec before pressing f12
<clover[m]>
can X13s run 32 bit binaries or 64 bit only
<HdkR>
4xX1 + 4xA78, Supports both 32-bit and 64-bit
<clover[m]>
tanks
<HdkR>
8G1 has mixed support, next-gen is when to be concerned.
<steev>
i've never had an issue with my usb devices on the x13s - but i use the ones i linked a couple days back, exclusively - and 32g in size because of the broken c630 bios stuff
<clover[m]>
if you are using usb-c try flipping it a couple times, i think that really can make a difference
<clover[m]>
so apparently it might be the last generation of fast ARM chips that will run 32 bit, HdkR
<HdkR>
Pretty much. I'm fine with that
<szclsya[m]>
I see no problem with this. It's not like desktop linux on arm has a large amount of legacy apps to carry, same as windows on arm
<steev>
i'm just glad they *finally* released native toolchains on WoA
<steev>
well, it's still beta, but still
<HdkR>
A bunch of Android applications going away is likely the biggest casualty
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<clover[m]>
<HdkR> "4xX1 + 4xA78, Supports both 32-..." <- So X1 are big and A78 are little cores?
<HdkR>
It's more of biggest + big arrangement, but sure
<clover[m]>
Hehe
<steev>
it IS nice to compile alacritty in 2 1/2 minutes
<steev>
though the c630 does it in ~6
<steev>
still not a massive wait
<clover[m]>
Why are you compiling alacrity lol
<clover[m]>
You running gentoo?
<HdkR>
This X13s throws quite a few kernel backtraces doesn't it
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<HdkR>
panel-edp.c:740, unknown panel IVO 0x854b
<janrinze>
clover[m]: let me know when you had time to check the Geekbench 5
<clover[m]>
Ok
<HdkR>
Bunch of alg_test backtraces, failing to allocate for multiple things
<janrinze>
Anyone here running RISC OS on Linux on their aarch64 laptop?
<clover[m]>
Welcome janrinze: lots of x13s linux users in here. At least 5 of us 😃
<janrinze>
:-D
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<janrinze>
clover[m]: you have no idea how many ARM laptops and SBCs i have and did linux porting for..
<janrinze>
It's been a weird but interesting journey
<clover[m]>
Are you going to get an x13s, too? :p
<janrinze>
Depends.. they're rather pricey a.t.m.
<janrinze>
haven't seen any in my regular webshops yet
<robclark>
HdkR: unknown panel thing is safe to ignore for now.. panel-edp will fall back to conservative/save (ie. longer) power-on delay but should otherwise work
<janrinze>
clover[m]: what's the full typename of the lenovo laptop?
<clover[m]>
Dtb is named sc8280xp-thinkpad.dtb
<janrinze>
Lenovo has it's own type name system.. i think this was a XXX- H3 --YY something
<janrinze>
cna't find it anymore.. The X13 is also an AMD laptop so it's not easy to find one online
<szclsya[m]>
21BX
<szclsya[m]>
latter part depends on your configuration and region
<clover[m]>
Don't get distracted by the z13 I know it looks nice 😆
<steev>
apparently i screwed up pretty badly though because it doesn't show up in the dri-devel patchwork?
<robclark>
if you aren't subscribed to dri-devel it might mean you have to wait until someone gets around to dealing with the spam queue
<steev>
ah, definitely not subscribed
<steev>
i know i screwed up anyway, somehow, because my Sob is on it twice?
<robclark>
would be nice if mailman had some rule to let through things that look like patches
<clover[m]>
Leo Shen: if you have time can you run Geekbench-5.4.4-LinuxARMPreview
<steev>
hm, i'm not entirely sure about the algo stuff actually, but crypto is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside my wheelhouse
<steev>
i have issues computing 1+1=2 so, you really don't want me doing crypto stuff
<szclsya[m]>
not a huge fan of geekbench, but ok
<clover[m]>
Ty sir
<janrinze>
szclsya[m]: which benchmark tool do you prefer?
<szclsya[m]>
I just compile my rust project and check the build time. suit my workload
<janrinze>
szclsya[m]: how does that help to compare with other systems?
<janrinze>
specifically systems you are considering to buy?
<janrinze>
for example I was considering the NVidia AGX Orin but decided to get a Mac Studio instead.. If there were any NVidia Orin laptops I would definitely consider that..
<janrinze>
my last ARM laptop was a NVidia K1 laptop.. I don't think that supports 64 bit..
<szclsya[m]>
I find building itself is similar to my previous 4750U laptop, but LTO phase is slower
<szclsya[m]>
not sure if it's a big.LITTLE thing
<janrinze>
the 4750U is a Ryzen?
<szclsya[m]>
yup, I'm pretty happy with its performance, but the battery life is just not enough
<janrinze>
in my experience compiling large projects are often disk bandwidth limited.
<janrinze>
szclsya[m]: are you using ccache?
<szclsya[m]>
I'm using cargo, which should do compile cache automatically
<szclsya[m]>
I usually do cargo clean before running the benchmark build though, so it would be fair
<szclsya[m]>
There's some error in information detected in geekbench
<steev>
HdkR: oh, you're going to want to grab the .mbns from the windows partition and copy them into /lib/firmware/qcom/sc8280xp/ otherwise your battery won't charge
<HdkR>
oops
<steev>
you wiped windows didn't you
<HdkR>
You know me quite well
<szclsya[m]>
hopefully you didn't wipe the recovery partition
<steev>
he wiped the entire drive :D
<szclsya[m]>
oops
<HdkR>
Of course, destroy the internal drive
<janrinze>
szclsya[m]: did you cross compile on he 4750u?
<HdkR>
On my 888 board I had to crank the DT capacity on the X1 core just so things got scheduled correctly on that core. But shouldn't have the same problem with the 8cxg3 arrangement :D
<janrinze>
will reboot now to test newly built kernel.. brb.
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<steev>
and jan was never heard from again :(
<szclsya[m]>
:'(
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<steev>
qzed: huh, interesting
<steev>
"Adding boot menu entry for EFI firmware configuration" unexpected but welcome change, i guess?
<janrinze>
I changed the kernel timer from 250Hz to 1000Hz to see if it changes anything.
<janrinze>
can't measure a difference. feels a bit snappier though.
<HdkR>
oh me oh my, the storage on the X13s is removable
<steev>
o really
<robclark>
steev: odd.. sometimes patchwork just missing things, perhaps?
<steev>
robclark: indeed :) the msm one does from time to time as well
<steev>
depending on their sale code each month, yeah
<janrinze>
at lenovo.com they show the laptop with 4 different prices.. might be a good idea to add the differences in configuration for each of these..
<HdkR>
They don't even have all configurations available yet. There is supposed to be a 400nits display one, and one with 1TB SSD
<janrinze>
the 32GB mem model only has 512GB SSD.. weird.
<szclsya[m]>
yeah
<szclsya[m]>
even worse is that you can't even buy a larger pcie4 2242 ssd right now
<szclsya[m]>
the only name brand I can find is Sabrent, but it's only pcie3
<HdkR>
Maybe even Lenovo is having problems sourcing the 1TB 2242 drive
<szclsya[m]>
wonder if we can make an adapter board to 2280 that utilizes the space if the wwan slot is not occupied
* janrinze
is off to bed..
<HdkR>
Hm, grub booting from internal drive but only to its bash helper
<HdkR>
Oh right, make sure to adjust uuid in EFI
<HdkR>
Need to adjust kernel image now and...give an initrd?
<HdkR>
I forget, how do I generate an initrd, is it necessary?
<szclsya[m]>
it will work if you bundle everything you need into the kernel