ChanServ changed the topic of #aarch64-laptops to: Linux support for AArch64 Laptops (Chrome OS Trogdor Devices - Asus NovaGo TP370QL - HP Envy x2 - Lenovo Mixx 630 - Lenovo Yoga C630 - Lenovo ThinkPad X13s - and various other snapdragon laptops) - https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/aarch64-laptops
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<deathmist>
anonymix007[m]: I've just successfully integrated the latest systemd-boot v257-rc2 multi-DTB UKI stuff on https://github.com/JamiKettunen/cports/tree/x1e, thanks for working on it :^)
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<JosDehaes[m]>
Anybody interested in buying my yoga slim 7x? (16GB/512GB) I'll add the extra SSD with (Arch) linux already installed. I'm asking here first before putting it on eBay.
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<Jasper[m]>
Do tell what you are asking for it, tends to help people decide
<\[m]>
why are you selling it?
<JosDehaes[m]>
Selling for 800 (I payed about 1000 for it), selling because I bought an M4 max MBP
<JosDehaes[m]>
btw, the laptop has working (but distorted) audio 😁
<JosDehaes[m]>
(in linux, in windows audio is of course perfect)
<tobhe_>
that will probably get fixed at some point
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<\[m]>
damn that costs what, 4.5k?
<JosDehaes[m]>
yes, but I can buy as company so I can recover VAT (21%)
<JensGlathe[m]>
Still expensive
<\[m]>
you can buy 2 t14s 😄
<JosDehaes[m]>
sure, but this thing is the fastest thing available at any price point
<JosDehaes[m]>
by quite a margin
<travmurav[m]>
Or 6 mac minis /s
<JosDehaes[m]>
all true 😁, but none of those will give me the same performance
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<\[m]>
how much % gain on comile time?
<\[m]>
<travmurav[m]> "Or 6 mac minis /s" <- how to cluster the compute tho
<derzahl>
oh nice, dell makes an snapdragon xps with up to 64gb of RAM now thats mostly working on linux. anyone have one?
<tobhe>
derzahl: both vivobook and XPS should work with the Ubuntu image. All the 64GB models are a bit problematic and seem to suffer from firmware issues but we have workarounds in place.
<derzahl>
tobhe: awesome. i broke my m1 macbook screen and was hoping there was some semi-comparable non-apple linux supported laptops out
<derzahl>
anyone think one stands out over the others? vivobook looks really nice and is cheap with 16GB which is prolly enough for me. xps is way more
<derzahl>
specifically, any opinions on best trackpad?
<tobhe>
the X Elites are solid hardware but hardware support is still very much WIP
<derzahl>
whats the most WIPy parts? GPU? standby/power states?
<tobhe>
Dell XPS has no real ESC key but a touch bar, so not great for vi users
<tobhe>
GPU works
<derzahl>
im fine with pulling patches and compiling my own kernels
<derzahl>
ok, XPS is out then:)
<tobhe>
standby power consumption has a lot of room for improvement
<tobhe>
audio is WIP, external display is WIP but kind of works, camera doesn't work, video encoding/decoding doesn't work
<tobhe>
some things are a bit unstable
<tobhe>
oh also no KVM at all on X Elites atm
<derzahl>
sounds pretty ok. video en/decoding is done on cpu not gpu?
<tobhe>
currently I think yes
<JensGlathe[m]>
x1e is brutally fast for compile
<JensGlathe[m]>
Quite happy with my HP Omnibook X14 pick. business laptop in disguise
<derzahl>
its apparently faster than the m1 for multithreaded?
<maz>
tobhe: "oh also no KVM at all" tsstss...
<maz>
definitely some KVM. not easy to bring up, and you probably leave some features behind in the process, but working.
<JensGlathe[m]>
They compared numbers with the m3. It is faster than my build box (R9-3900x), at considerably less power
<derzahl>
m1 with asashi is almost my perfect laptop...but GPU support doesnt seem to be coming along. so its either an m2 air for me or something else. Im mostly concerned about trackpad quality and hoping for better gpu support
<JensGlathe[m]>
the only thing faster that I have here is the "angrybox" Snapdragon Dev Kit
<JensGlathe[m]>
GPU is great on x1e, Ubuntu has iris drivers for the codec in testing
<derzahl>
awesome. wow xle is ARMv9? didnt know v9 was out yet
<JensGlathe[m]>
Most people go with the T14s
<derzahl>
t14s?
<robclark>
oryon/x1 is armv8.7 (I guess the main diff is SVE, which qc doesn't seem to be a big fan of)
<JensGlathe[m]>
Lenovo Thinkpad T14s
<derzahl>
oh ok, ill check those out too
<derzahl>
kinda expensive but i might get a company discount
<derzahl>
so any input on which trackpad is best/worst?
<robclark>
the lenovo yoga 7x is nice too, if you don't need dedicated pgup/pgdn keys (it was available configurable earlier than the t14s.. and cheaper)
<robclark>
(pretty happy with the trackpad too)
<JosDehaes[m]>
derzahl: I'm selling my yoga 7x for 800 € if you missed this above 😁
<maz>
derzahl: v8.6. not that it makes any difference.
<maz>
or maybe 8.7 as robclark says. but that's pretty much irrelevant.
<jhovold>
9
<jhovold>
oops
<SpieringsAE>
derzahl: very happy with my asus vivobook, I have the 32gb variant myself, but yeah I like the amount of IO (even though most of it doesn't work yet, working on that), price and size, but you are not gonna get a better price than jos's lenovo lol
<robclark>
I read somewhere that m4 has SVE and geekbench benefits from that.. (but I care more about compile time.. I would be interested to see some m4 vs x1e compile benchmarks)
<robclark>
well, I guess I might have to wait a bit for m4 linux compile benchmarks
<SpieringsAE>
trackpad on the asus is fine for me, but I recommend maybe trying to find a store to try it out
<tobhe>
maz: sorry, I should have said KVM comes with serious tradeoffs :) I didn't mean to belittle the work happening on that front
<JosDehaes[m]>
robclark: I'll provide those compile benchmark next week when my M4 max arrives :D
<jannau>
derzahl: what do you mean with "GPU support doesnt seem to be coming along" on asahi? display outputs? The GPU itself is very well supported (conformant opengl 4.6 and vulkan 1.3 with enough extensions for directx 11 via dxvk)
<deathmist>
derzahl: as per Snazzy Labs' video on YT now from ~4 months ago the 13" Surface Laptop may be what you want to go for if you're after a perfect touchpad with the Lenovo Yoga 7x coming second which he ended up testing due to stock unavailability at a store
<robclark>
we should have dx12 soon on x1e ;-)
<maz>
tobhe: no worries!
<maz>
robclark: M4 has SME only, no SVE.
<robclark>
oh, ok, maybe it was SME that I was thinking of then
<maz>
you still get streaming SVE with it, but no scatter-gather.
<robclark>
would be kinda cute if we could use the matrix thing in hexagon.. idk if anyone has played with that? I guess fastrpc is there already?
<derzahl>
jannau: I guess I just mean that I would have screen artifacts and glitches use the hwaccel driver. Granted, I was still on Asahi Arch so had to compile all the latest updates myself, which i did...semi-recently (last few months). I also recall checking the driver gitlab repo semi-recently and not seeing much activity. But I would be happy to be mistaken. Is the M2 GPU well supported too?
<maz>
the definition of a v9 CPU is v8 plus at least one of SVE2, SME2, RME or TME. x1 has neither of them.
<deathmist>
HdkR: btw the Tango 4 hour evaluation thing is a per-process timer so if I use it for just building armv7 stuff on X1E after setting everything up I should theoretically be able to indefinitely use it for what I was originally gonna try anyway, we shall see later today ig now that I'm near to creating ISOs for a new distro with multi-DTB UKIs :D
<derzahl>
JosDehaes[m]: Shipping might kill it since im in the US. 32gb model?
<JosDehaes[m]>
Ah yes, that may be 50 euro for shipping or so, let me look into that. No, it's 16GB model
<derzahl>
jannau: so i probably shouldnt have cracked my m1 screen....since doesnt look like m2 GPU is supported
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<derzahl>
the vivobook with 16GB for $550 is looking pretty tempting. can anyone roast the vivobook? tell me the worst
<derzahl>
JosDehaes[m]: looks like t14s with 32GB are around $1000 here but yeh, I only see 16GB 7x slims so that must be the max
<JensGlathe[m]>
shocked about the price delta
<deathmist>
here I though I got a steal of a deal with 960€ for the HP OmniBook (which likely still won't be lower during upcoming black friday sales)
<deathmist>
it retails for ~1300€
<JensGlathe[m]>
that sounds quite low already
<jannau>
derzahl: m1 and m2 GPU's are equally well supported
<tobhe>
can confirm, my m2 air gpu works perfectly fine and there is a constant flow of upgrades and new features
<tobhe>
no bugs either
<derzahl>
jannau: oh great. strange that the blog references just the M1, at least in the titles
<JosDehaes[m]>
Oh the yoga is 1500 euro here for the 16 GB
<tobhe>
I guess m1 is often just used synonymous with apple silicon
<derzahl>
though choices. i was supposed to get an m2 air company laptop but they sent me an m3:( trying to get it swapped
<tobhe>
and you don't always want to write m1/m2/m3
<anonymix007[m]>
derzahl: x1e is unfortunately only ARMv8 (8.7 IIRC)
<derzahl>
tobhe: true
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<SpieringsAE>
derzahl: 550 for the vivobook?! is that with the x1e or x1p
<derzahl>
xle
<derzahl>
best buy
<SpieringsAE>
the only bad thing I can tell about it is the fans can be a bit loud, but only on windows
<SpieringsAE>
on linux the fans dont seem to ramp up at all
<SpieringsAE>
damn
<SpieringsAE>
cheapest one here is 1000eur
<SpieringsAE>
the fans not ramping up does slightly worry me though lol, I can be compiling on all cores, cpu temps (according to btop) hit about 88C
<deathmist>
my omnibook goes to 95 on all
<SpieringsAE>
oof
<SpieringsAE>
ooh wauw the x1p vivobook dropped to 800 eur already
<SpieringsAE>
it was 1200 or something when it launched lol
<SpieringsAE>
ah no 1100 at launch
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<derzahl>
fans?? damn
<derzahl>
didnt think theyd have fans at all
<SpieringsAE>
yoga has them too
<SpieringsAE>
you really need them on the x1e
<derzahl>
not yoga c630:)
<SpieringsAE>
there is still like 30w or something going through
<SpieringsAE>
at peak I think at least
<SpieringsAE>
my pinebook pro also doesn't have fans lol, but it also doesn't have performance
<SpieringsAE>
ouch the asus proart tablet thingy dropped from 1600 to 1100
<SpieringsAE>
almost 33% price drop over less than half a year
<SpieringsAE>
I would love to get an inside view on the sales of these things, I'm afraid it is not going great
<derzahl>
ugh, pinebook pro was such a disappointment
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<TheBITLINK[m]>
dayum, should have waited to buy my vivobook
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<derzahl>
yeh, no windows using folks want an ARM laptop "thats a phone processsor LOL"
<TheBITLINK[m]>
I bought mine specifically to put linux in it once the support was there
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<SpieringsAE>
TheBITLINK[m]: got mine for like 1350 euro from spain a couple of weeks ago, it was the only 32gb model I could get with a qwerty keyboard
<TheBITLINK[m]>
but it's been a long wait
<derzahl>
ive also been tempted to pick up one of those risc-v laptops, anyone try any of them out?
<SpieringsAE>
I bought mine to put linux on it even if there was no support yet lo
<SpieringsAE>
I've ordered the deepcomputing framework one, but I know the performance is going to be very poopoo
<robclark>
derzahl: I have 32GB 7x .. but maybe that is only avail if you order from lenovo.com?
<TheBITLINK[m]>
SpieringsAE: I think the 32GB was the only model available here in Chile, QWERTY as well
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<TheBITLINK[m]>
paid like 1500 USD for it 💀
<robclark>
derzahl: I barely hear the fans on the 7x.. they come on if I'm compiling the kernel or something big.. but not obtrusive
<robclark>
(I have a teammate who has a framework chromebook.. the fans on _that_ sound like a hairdryer)
<derzahl>
SpieringsAE: is that the dc-roma? was retailing for $3000 or something and then they immediatly dropped down to like $600 because musebook and another comparable or better risc-v laptop was released
<derzahl>
robclark: thats cool, i only saw 16gb 7x slims on lenovo site now.
<robclark>
$69 for 32GB upgrade, and $45 for the 1TB nvme upgrade
<derzahl>
robclark: thats actually tempting. only +$69 for 32GB vs 16GB. damn, i wish I had that option on the vivobook!
<robclark>
yeah, it is actually quite reasonably priced
<derzahl>
$1,141.20 with 32gb, and i think i get $100 off discount through corporate site
<derzahl>
the 7x looks alot nicer than the t14s from pix
<derzahl>
no annoying touchpoint FTW
<robclark>
the main drawback (IMHO) vs the t14s is no dedicated pgup/pgdn keys .. I had to change a couple keybindings for that
<derzahl>
that doesnt bother me. ive been using macs as daily drivers forever
<robclark>
other than being shiny (which it seems like all OLED screens are), the 3k OLED screen is quite nice
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<macc24>
robclark: i got my slim7x with 32gb of ram from a relatively normal store
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<JensGlathe[m]>
Wow T14s my config would be 2200€
<dgilmore>
tobhe: none of the workarounds work for me
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<tobhe>
what kind of error are you seeing? grub just crashes?
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<dgilmore>
I have thje grub patch from ubuntu, and that works, but the kernel just crashes. and the screen is blank when it does. so I have no idea why
<dgilmore>
and I can not use the cutmem command in grub to see if that works as it does not exist in the build I am using
<tobhe>
so that could be the problem, this is on a 64GB machine right?
<tobhe>
but the errors I have been seeing without that were blue screens while linux clearly started to boot
<tobhe>
there are also randomish errors that some have managed to work around by adding and removing usb devices
<tobhe>
oh you did mention blue screen in a previous message. yeah that is the one you need cutmem for
<robclark>
fwiw, bluescreen is underflow.. like device trying to scanout faster than memory can feed it (which _should_ be dealt with via requesting icc bandwidth based on scanout resolution)
<tobhe>
I always assumed those were firmware crashes
<dgilmore>
I guess I need to find a grub build with cutmem enabled, or figure out how to enable it
<robclark>
so there is some sort of watchdog in tz.. and fault handlers for things like async/sync SError (like register access when the device is unpowered/unclocked).. those mostly just trigger a reboot (haven't seen underflow from that.. but whatever problem triggered the underflow could also be angering tz)
<tobhe>
dgilmore: should be in the mmap module, so insmod mmap maybe?
<tobhe>
it is disabled in secure boot mode but that shouldn't work anyway
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<tobhe>
some versions of grub also seem to have a badram command that should work too
<dgilmore>
okay now booting, I had to put the mmap module in /boot so it could be loaded
<ppd[m]>
Steve Cossette [Farchord]: the current issue (as I understand it) is that qualcomm seems to have most of the audio stuff good (qdsp6) but I think we're missing one part regarding speaker configuration
<farchord>
ppd: Oh I'm not worried, it will come. Hopefully it won'T go the "Game of Thrones" route, but it'll come! :)
<ppd[m]>
Yeah hopefully I can at least help figure it out. Audioreach being open source is defo helpful
<farchord>
Most of the people here I have no idea what their part in this is. Except for a couple people :)
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<deathmist>
uh seems my HP OmniBook no longer turns on at all? it started behaving strangely upon one reboot such as not letting me press Esc/F9 boot menu anymore and whatever it booted no longer had working keyboard/touchpad but SSH via Wi-Fi still worked, and now after poweroff power button seems broken, just charging LED is orange. any ideas?
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<JensGlathe[m]>
hmm remove power. Wait a few minutes. Start without external power.
<JensGlathe[m]>
I had one odd situation, too
<deathmist>
I unplugged it and held power button for over a minute, nothing
<deathmist>
now it just turned on?!
<JensGlathe[m]>
it heard you
<deathmist>
keyboard still not working
<farchord>
That reminds me of when my mom tells me her computer is doing stuff, I go see it and it no longer does it
<JensGlathe[m]>
I would say some EC shenanigans
<deathmist>
maybe I'll just set windows as default boot target for now...
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<JensGlathe[m]>
But no shit that could right some things. On Windows Dev Kit a Windows boot fixes thermal behaviour to normal fan curve
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<deathmist>
oh great it booted to windows but now the display is pitch black
<deathmist>
keyboard function stuff to raise that doesn't work, sigh
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<deathmist>
guess now I officially bricked it by making windows default boot target if it doesn't fix itself magically
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<deathmist>
returning this on Friday ig if I can't get it working again before that, now it's stuck in windows suspend with keyboard/lid doing nothing to wake it up from that and even with charger replug the power led becomes solid for just 4 seconds before going back to the cyclic sleep mode fades
<farchord>
deathmist: that sucks man.... maybe you got a lemon?
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<deathmist>
so I tried an external keyboard through a USB hub, it lights up but nothing happens on device, then I try to just lift up the laptop and then it just wakes up from the eternal slumber?!!
<deathmist>
wtf is going on with this device
<JensGlathe[m]>
this sounds a bit weirder than I had
<TheBITLINK[m]>
sounds like something might be interfering with the lid switch?
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<robclark>
side note, don't stack identical laptops on top of each other, that can cause lid switch to interfere and drive you crazy until you pick up your laptop and everything starts working
<deathmist>
yea it seems to be working perfectly fine again, tbf I did put it on top of another device which seems to have caused this but I've never seen this before and it's been fine so far in the same kinda setup lol
<robclark>
yeah, if lid switch on the other device is in approx same position it can cause this
<robclark>
it's pretty maddening/confusion
<robclark>
but at least that isn't a qc/arm problem ;-)
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<bamse>
like when i had the wrong polarity on the sc8180x primus lid switch, but for 6 months some thing was blocking systemd from attempting suspend...and then one day, the pain started
<robclark>
heh, suspend when you open the lid and resume when you close it? :-P
<bamse>
yeah, but i had the device in my automation lab, with lid open all the time...
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<bamse>
so by the end of loading systemd services it would finally feel it was time to suspend the system
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<steev>
i won't show the stack of laptops here.... but i've definitely been lucky enough to not have it happen