ChanServ changed the topic of #asahi-dev to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | Non-development talk: #asahi | General development | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi-dev
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<sven>
maz: solder joints looked good under a microscope. I added some flux and heated them up again anyway and at least it worked in high speed mode once now
<sven>
no idea if it was actually that though or if it’ll fail again at some point
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<Ry_Darcy>
Is there any change planned in the Asahi (Fedora-Remix) installer to choose a file system i.e. ext4 at install time? I am not a fan of BTRFS.
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<jannau>
amarioguy: dcp_iboot fails to set the new frambeuffer/plane. possible explanation is that sonoma iboot skips some initialization previous versions were still doing
<jannau>
amarioguy: did you boot into linux? was the dcp still able to bring the display up?
<jannau>
I'll try to reproduce on a m1 mini, not touching the m1 ultra for now so we compare working/broken systems
<jannau>
which ventura version are you using? 13.5*?
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<sven>
maz: just broke again. let me try to bodge this by directly soldering d+/d- writes from the connector to a usb cable
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<maz>
sven: the D+/D- lines are also routed to test points right next to the uUSB connector.
<sven>
waaait... is GND just not connected on the micro port?
<maz>
it should be connected. it is the ID and VBUS lines that are not.
<sven>
oh, right, that's probably the ID line I measured then
<maz>
the shell isn't grounded though.
<sven>
i'll directly solder wires to the type c connector's D+/D- to bypass the entire pcb
<sven>
I don't think the shield is meant to be connected to GND but dunno
<maz>
wow. steady hand!
<sven>
the trick is magnification and flux :D
<sven>
it's almost easy then
<sven>
it makes no sense but my hands shake much less if I see the pcb zoomed in
<maz>
brain. weird machine.
<sven>
hrm, actually, i can just bodge a cable and route the d+/d- away. no need for pcb micro surgery :)
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<sven>
alright, with that new cable it directly showed up as high speed now. let's see if it keeps that way
<sven>
seems to work reliably now. i guess something on the pcb degrades the signal just enough for high-speed to sometimes fail
<maz>
yeah, that's a bit worrying. I've bean thinking of moving the uUSB connector much closer to the USB-C, but that's hard (specially with the newer versions that actively switch the D+/D- pair between serial and USB).
<maz>
I guess going with a full ground plane (which requires 4 layer board) would help.
<sven>
I unfortunately don't have a scope and even if I had one I doubt it would be fast enough to actually look at high speed D+/D- or capture eye diagrams
<sven>
would be interesting to see what's actually going on
<maz>
yup. ${job-3} had a huge f'in scope capable of capturing an eye diagram, and all of a sudden I miss that environment...
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<amarioguy>
jannau: ventura version is 13.4.1
<amarioguy>
didn't test linux booting yet, can do so but don't have a rootfs installed yet so i'd need to go do that later today
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* jannau
is upgrading a mac mini to sonoma
<jannau>
amarioguy: can you test with a build with #define RTKIT_SYSLOG uncommented in config.h
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<jannau>
nothing interesting to see
<amarioguy>
i might just blow away the install on here ngl it's not like i used sonoma terribly much
<amarioguy>
before then i'll test if linux still brings up dcp properly
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<jannau>
still woking on the mac mini (sonoma beta 3 with 12.3 system fw)
<marcan>
you mean OS fw?
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<sven>
maz: it's been stable the entire time now. pretty sure something on the pcb is the issue fwiw
<marcan>
I doubt a few cm of trace is going to hurt signal integrity much for USB2.0
<marcan>
sven: did you cut the traces when bodging the cable or did you leave stubs?
<sven>
the pcb isn't in the signal path at all for d+/d- now
<sven>
i split the cable off before
<sven>
cutting traces was the first plan before i realized i can just sacrifice a cable instead
<jannau>
marcan: yes, OS firmware
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<chadmed>
one again spite proves to be the greatest of motivators
<chadmed>
popping noises dealt with
<chadmed>
a ~done j314 dsp graph is now in asahi-audio/main
<chadmed>
(no point in anyone testing btw, you need pipewire and wireplumber special sauce)
<marcan>
chadmed: lol, what was it?
<marcan>
or rather, how did you fix it?
<chadmed>
the same way macos does, just throw more compressor at the input until it stops doing it :)
<marcan>
lol
<marcan>
fair :D
<chadmed>
unfortunately that means the multiband is back, but LSP's is better than macos's and uses way less cpu so we're still doing better
<marcan>
excellent
<marcan>
glad we have LSP :)
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<chadmed>
so am i, im too dumb to implement DSP
<chadmed>
it took me days to wrap my head around why sample-wise multiplication works
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<dsharshakov>
chadmed: more secret spices are being pushed in some minutes. mostly mute-related
<dsharshakov>
please consider reviewing once you get a time
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<Ry_Darcy>
@all did anyone read my message or have an idea to my question at 07:18 (UTC)?
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<maz>
sven: at some point, it'd be good to understand what part is screwing up the signal. I wouldn't be surprised if the connectors themselves acted as capacitors if they were one way or another oxidised.
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<sven>
hm.. i could try cutting the traces and bypassing the pcb with a twisted pair. if it still fails at high speed then it's the connectors. if it works then it's something else on the pcb
<marcan>
Ry_Darcy: not at this time.
<maz>
sven: that. or try to use the test points that are right by the micro-USB connector, and see if you get something there.
<sven>
probably makes sense to try the test points first :D
<marcan>
usb2.0 isn't *that* sensitive, so I would expect something obvious over subtle signal integrity issues in the design
<sven>
yeah, i'm surprised it falls back to full speed as well
<marcan>
bad soldering, too much semi-conductive gunk in flux, etc
<sven>
i've cleaned up the connectors and i don't think there's anything else in the signal path on the pcb
<marcan>
did you test proper isolation? >megaohms to any adjacent trace etc
<marcan>
could also run capacitance tests if your multimeter has that
<sven>
i only checked for obvious shorts between d+/d-, if gnd was connected, etc.
<marcan>
which version is this?
<maz>
v1
<sven>
no idea, was about to ask maz :D
<maz>
I think only kettenis has ever seen a v0.
<marcan>
ah, don't have that one :)
<maz>
marcan: nah, I keep them to myself! ;-)
<maz>
but if a v1 fails (with more or less nothing on the signal path), I'm a bit worried for v3+, which do have switches on that signal.
<marcan>
waaait hold on
<marcan>
does v1 have D+/D- bridge to SBU1/2 in parallel?
<maz>
no.
<sven>
no
<marcan>
(I'm looking at the gerbers)
<sven>
i checked for stuff like that
<sven>
I didn't see D+ or D- bridged to anything else
<maz>
marcan: make sure you checkout the right tag,
<marcan>
I checked out v1
<marcan>
and looked at gerber.zip
<sven>
let me check again to make sure
<marcan>
ah wait, this is a single-row Type C with a funny pinout
<sven>
nah, no bridges
<marcan>
yeah I was just confused by the pinout
<marcan>
I don't see anything terribly wrong in the layout, could be improved but nothing that would break USB2.0
<marcan>
so best I can come up with is a short or near short somewhere or similar
<marcan>
anything that introduces a big stub/capacitance unbalanced on D+ or D- even if it's not a DC short will degrade signal enough to break high speed
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<Ry_Darcy>
@marcan thank you for your usual off-handed arrogance. A little bit more professionalism would not have gone astray.
<j`ey>
o_O
<marcan>
oh for fuck's sake
<j`ey>
did I read somethng different
Ry_Darcy was banned on #asahi-dev by marcan [*!*@213.55.222.117]
Ry_Darcy was kicked from #asahi-dev by marcan [I'm really getting tired of this shit]
<marcan>
I have limited patience and today people are *really* starting to test it.
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<j`ey>
even if they thought the 'not at this time' was in response to 'has anyone seen my question'.. it's still hard to call that arrogant, *shrug*
<sven>
yeah, not sure how to see arrogance in that reply
<maz>
I also don't think 'professionalism' applies to any of this. nobody has a contractual obligation to answer anything.
<sven>
that too
<j`ey>
asahi won't be big or professional like GNU
<povik>
:)
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<sven>
okay, this makes no sense. How did I break usb3 by _removing_ thunderbolt patches?!
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<jmr2>
Having been on the receiving end of one such comment a few weeks ago on asahi-alt, I couldn't help but laugh reading this now. I know this is off-topic, but we users don't say it often enough: thank you to each of you for everything you're doing.