marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | Not ready for end users / self contained install yet. Soon. | General project discussion | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<ah-[m]>
hi from gnome on my m1 :)
<ah-[m]>
this runs so much better than it should
<ah-[m]>
even multitouch gestures work
<matthewayers[m]>
Awesome
<matthewayers[m]>
* Awesome!
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<kit_ty_kate>
mps: actually I was able to free 100GB of data on my M1 device so I should also be able to beta-test an alpine installer there too
<kit_ty_kate>
it’s not my daily driver but for quick beta testing and ironing of stuff it should do the job
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<Glanzmann>
immychan[m]: You're problem was the usb keyboard, try a different one, or use the tethered approach.
<Glanzmann>
jannau: Is your u-boot branch already ready for testing on m1?
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<jannau>
Glanzmann: it should not need testing, it's recent u-boot git + patches already sent to the u-boot mailing list
<jannau>
it should work on all m1, m1 pro/max devices
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<jannau>
compared to apple-m1-m1n1-nvme it doesn't have smc and pci support
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<jannau>
smc is not a problem when booting linux or openbsd with smc support but missing pci support means no ethernet or usb-a ports on the mini
<jannau>
it should be used with the kernel dts
<jannau>
it probably makes sense to defer using it on macbook pro 14"/16" until the keyboard dts fix is in asahi
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<kettenis>
jannau: there is no pcie ethernet support in u-boot, so the only thing we lose by switching away from the apple-m1-m1n1-nvme branch is the type-a ports on the mac mini
<Glanzmann>
jannau: I see, thanks for the explanation.
<mps>
yes, u-boot from master branch have logo, first time I saw it was about month ago when worked with upstream on fixing u-boot sandbox on musl libc
<mps>
and also on u-boot for samsung peach pi chromebook (exynos-5800 arm32)
<mps>
I was surprised when saw it
<mps>
(though not yet all bugs in u-boot are fixed on musl libc :-( )
<mps>
kit_ty_kate: sorry if I was ambiguous, but I don't know 'fine points' of alpine installer and I don't dare to adapt it for m1 (I wrote I will ask some of alpine devs to do this)
<mps>
kit_ty_kate: I will only prepare needed tools (u-boot and kernel) and create script to install these on usb disk
<Glanzmann>
jannau / kettenis: Will the PCIe (for the mini usb-a ports) be picked up soon or is it an ambitious project?
<mps>
kit_ty_kate: my idea is to point users to Glanzmann perl script to do first part (what is needed to be done on macos) and then boot from usb disk and start setup-alpine (alpine installer) from there
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<guillaume_g>
Hi! I am trying to get upstream kernel 5.17-rc3 working on my Macbook Air M1. I installed u-boot by following https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/U-Boot which loads grub as expected, and allows me to load the kernel + DT + initrd, but I fail to get USB (where my rootfs is) and keyboard working.
<j`ey>
at least, just being plugged in, not hotplug
<sven>
I don’t think upstream has the nodes in the dt yet
<j`ey>
oh right
<j`ey>
(just checked, it doesnt)
<guillaume_g>
Oh, so no USB and no keyboard is actually expected
<j`ey>
yeah
<guillaume_g>
I will check the links above to see if I can apply some patches on top of my build
<j`ey>
guillaume_g: why not just use the asahi branch?
<guillaume_g>
I would like to get openSUSE on it
<guillaume_g>
openSUSE Tumbleweed
<Glanzmann>
guillaume_g: I see, the process is the same as with debian.
<j`ey>
sure you can do that, with a different kernel
<mps>
guillaume_g: with proper kernel userspace should work out-of-the-box
<Glanzmann>
guillaume_g: If you don't get it going, send me the link to the rootfs and I try it locally.
<guillaume_g>
Ok, thanks :)
<guillaume_g>
Is 16K PAGE_SIZE mandatory?
<maz>
if you want PCI, yes. hopefully we'll be able to relax this at some point.
<mps>
guillaume_g: yes, if you don't apply iommmu patch which allow 4K
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<mps>
and with 4K iommu patch expect around 25% slowdown
<guillaume_g>
ok, thanks
<Glanzmann>
guillaume_g: There is a patch: tg.st/u/mmu.patch
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<kettenis>
Glanzmann: I need to rework the PCIe support in u-boot a bit, but I don't really want to start working on that until some of the pending patch series have been upstreamed
<Glanzmann>
kettenis: I see.
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<Glanzmann>
jannau / kettenis: About u-boot. Does the imac has pci-e for the usb-3 ports? If that is a case I would add a note to the Debian wiki page.
<_jannau_>
Glanzmann: yes, the two additional ports on 4 port imac use pcie but they are nt yet useable since the controller needs a firmware
<_jannau_>
firmware is embedded in the macos kext
<Glanzmann>
I see, thanks. I'll add a note to the wiki.
<Glanzmann>
I updated the Debian artefacts and wiki article with the new u-boot. So you can now use Debian with u-boot on all systems thanks to kettenis and jannau.
<Glanzmann>
mps: I think so, too. You need the two dtb patches you can find it in bootstrap.sh or jannaus kernel tree and that's it.
<Glanzmann>
I also updated the wiki
<mps>
Glanzmann: thanks
<Glanzmann>
u-boot article, but maybe I should mention the patches in the u-boot wiki article as well.
<kettenis>
please don't point folks there
<kettenis>
this will all be integrated in due time
<chadmed>
theres a reason the quickstart guide says that untethered booting in an advanced feature still... supporting it will be a nightmare until everything is upstreamed and folks are all on the same page as it were. its going to be a mess if people are all following different guides pointing to a bunch of out of sync branches with patches plucked out of the aether
<chadmed>
i would strongly suggest you stop linking people the u-boot guide until stuff is smoothed out, or at the very least until the devicetrees for the M1 machines stabilise
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<kettenis>
maybe we should create a u-boot repository under the AsahiLinux github repo with an asahi branch that matches the asahi branch of the linux repository
<j`ey>
that sounds like a good idea
<Glanzmann>
chadmed: I mean people trying this are developers. If everyone has to ask on irc what needs to be done to build u-boot, than that is annoying.
<kettenis>
but pointing people at different semi-random personal github repositories is counterproductive in my opinion
<chadmed>
Glanzmann: well, it seems to me that a lot of folks coming in now asking about it arent actually developers. there seems to have been an increase in support related questions over the last few days and trying to complicate the debugging process by suggesting they use unstable u-boot branches to boot untethered isnt gonna help that
<Glanzmann>
And kernel asahi branch has not been merged for over a month.
<chadmed>
it would be fine IFF we had a universal asahi u-boot branch as kettenis suggested, but thats obviously something that's up to him, marcan, and whoever else has the skill/desire to maintain it.
<chadmed>
(thats the logical IFF by the way, not a typo)
<j`ey>
kettenis: for u-boot, is there much else needed other than that currently implemented things?
<_jannau_>
I suppose a blessed asahi u-boot repo will be created in preparation for bundling u-boot in the installer
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<_jannau_>
which is not far away
<chadmed>
well i think the idea is that everything (bar mini) bundled should be the mainline version to minimise friction with distros. a prospective asahi u-boot repo would pretty much just be for staging and testing patches
<chadmed>
exactly as linux-asahi exists today
<_jannau_>
it will be, all patches required for m1 and m1 pro/max are already on the u-boot mailing list except for pcie support
<kettenis>
so one of the "challenges" is not to get ahead too much
<kettenis>
because at some point it becomes really painful to keep upstreaming things
<kettenis>
_jannau_: nice work on the logo thing
<kettenis>
another thing on my TODO list that I no longer have to worry about
<sven>
yeah, i kinda hope we can reduce the patches we still have to carry in linux as soon as possible
<sven>
especially for things where the dt bindings aren't decided yet
<sven>
the rest isn't as bad, but if we have users who install m1n1/u-boot right now and then the bindings we made up change later that's going to be painful
<sven>
it's totally fine if people are aware of that ofc, but i feel like most end users aren't
<j`ey>
seems to be 120 patches on `asahi`, ~30 are wifi
<chadmed>
most of that is already merged/scheduled to be merged right?
<sven>
not so sure about that
<sven>
i haven't submitted anything for sart/rtkit/nvme yet because we wanted to wait until SMC kinda-sorta works
<j`ey>
chadmed: if you mean wifi, 10 patches have been merged into next
<j`ey>
(the cleanups)
<chadmed>
ohh joey meant the branch, i was thinking refs to "asahi" on the mailing list (im sleepy)
<sven>
:-)
<sven>
it's unfortunately more fun to hack on new things than trying to get what we have merged ;)
<chadmed>
a perennial problem
<DmitrySboychakov[m]>
that's why most of similar projects newer get's upstreamed
<sven>
either way, i'm very happy about people testing what we have ofc. i'd just like to avoid getting end users very confused by pointing them to random github repositories
<chadmed>
oh yeah for sure my issue is the same. once we start "having" (read: being expected to) support end users who have cobbled together boot chains with random personal github repos and external patches linked via text file in IRC it becomes a nightmare. it would probably be best if we point people to the canonical sources of information only and limit encouragement of untethered booting until devicetrees are stable at the
<chadmed>
very least
<chadmed>
i think just in the last two days a few of people here have had issues with devicetrees because theyve taken them from the kernel and tried to make them work in u-boot. we have to make sure that stops because at that point youre not actually testing anything we want tested and just creating issues
<Glanzmann>
chadmed: At the moment you have to actually take the device tree from the kernel in order that u-boot works.
<kettenis>
and that will be the way forward
<kettenis>
or maybe the way forward is to have the blessed device tree in the m1n1 repository even
<sven>
yeah
<sven>
might make sense to either put them into m1n1.git or even dtbs.git with nodes that have at least been reviewed on LKML
<j`ey>
every project wants to be the source of truth for DTs :P
<kettenis>
well, I defenitely don't want u-boot to be the source of rtuth in this case ;)
<kettenis>
(and I keep spelling definitely wrong)
<sven>
I'd vote for "merged into linux-next" or "reviewed by the relevant people on LKML" as source of truth
<j`ey>
kettenis: even native speakers get that one wrong :)
<chadmed>
yeah i was just about to say it probably makes sense to keep blessed DTs with the kernel since its the kernel's drivers that will rely most heavily on them
<chadmed>
i know people who speak no language other than english who will spell it "defiantly" consistently, even when corrected
<maz>
I would say the opposite. using DT from the kernel is a license to hack it in incompatible way
<maz>
DT should come from the firmware, m1n1 is the firmware, job done.
<kettenis>
ideally the DTs would be maintained and reviewed independently from the linux kernel
<maz>
+1
<kettenis>
unfortunately that idea is (still) somewhat controversial
<sven>
and the next best thing for us seems to be "rely on LKML for the review" (at least for new drivers/bindings) and maintain the dts inside m1n1.git or whatever once that's done
<kettenis>
yup
<maz>
what is going to be interesting is to make that DT evolve without introducing incompatibilities (like it just happened with PMGR).
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<kit_ty_kate>
mps: i see, no worries. Sorry if i misunderstood ^^"
<kit_ty_kate>
I might give Glanzmann’s installer a try then. Any particular things to note about it Glanzmann? (for an M1 device to start with)
<mps>
kit_ty_kate: english is not my native lang and I'm self taught in (and I'm bad teacher obviously ;) ) so sorry if I told something wrong or nonsensical
<kettenis>
maz: the challenge there seems to be in adding properties that are handled by common code instead of the individual drivers
<mps>
as I wrote a day or two ago I don't think that the asahi linux and u-boot are ready for end users, but I'm not member of the team so take my words with 'grain of salt'
<jannau>
maz: I'm not even sure we could have done something differently with the PMGR bindings even if we noticed that earlier
<mps>
kit_ty_kate: but I got m1n1, u-boot and kernel running fine on my box with great help from devs and users here, so if someone who understand current status is willing to repeat or improve what I did, I feel that I should help if I can
<j`ey>
jannau: what actually was the issue with the added pmgr nodes?
<mps>
kit_ty_kate: and as current u-boot and kernel doesn't have already too much patches I added few more ;)
<mps>
(added terminus 12x24 fonts for both)
<_jannau_>
j`ey: I assume the driver core uses "power-domains" and doesn't probe devices it can't power-on due to missing power-controller driver
<Glanzmann>
kit_ty_kate: If you can wait 5 more days, I'll it cleanup more, so that it works more smoothly.
<kit_ty_kate>
i’ll wait 5 more days then. I’m not in a hurry
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<Glanzmann>
kit_ty_kate: If you want you can msg me your email address and I ping you once I'm ready.
<Glanzmann>
kit_ty_kate: Which m1 system do you have?
<kit_ty_kate>
sure. I have both M1 Air and M1Pro 16
<Glanzmann>
I see.
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<Lucy[m]1>
Silly question: would it be possible to "hijack" a Raspberry Pi 4 image into an Asahi image? There's probably a better way to explain but like, they're both arm64. Apologies for the dumb question.
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<j`ey>
Lucy[m]1: with changing the kernel+modules, yeah
<Lucy[m]1>
Yeah, I mainly want to have a Pi 4 image but splice an Asahi kernel/boot files into it
<Lucy[m]1>
The boot thing is what I'm confused about.
<Lucy[m]1>
How would I create something bootable by an M1 Mac?
<j`ey>
You'd use the asahi-installer, but it's not end user friendly
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<Lucy[m]1>
I was looking at that, but was wondering how to use it and what `bootstrap.tar.gz` was
<Lucy[m]1>
s/bootstrap/installer/
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<j`ey>
that contains the installer
<Lucy[m]1>
ah wait I see, there's a prebuilt one. looking at the wiki rn
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<sjg1>
sjg1: Yes landed patches at more useful than private hacks :-)
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<landscape15[m]>
I discovered battery drains very rapidly while running Linux (about 20% in an hour at idle). Is this normal?
<j`ey>
running X?
<j`ey>
remember that that's on the CPU
<hramrach>
I don't think there is frequency scaling so it runs at full speed all the time
<Glanzmann>
landscape15[m]: So on Debian Testing on battery I can last at least 6 hours when running x and working with it.
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<landscape15[m]>
Glanzmann: perhaps there is a process running all the time, because it is quite warm
<j`ey>
hramrach: that too
<landscape15[m]>
j`ey: I’m running knee
<landscape15[m]>
s/knee/kde/
<Glanzmann>
landscape15[m]: Mine is also warmer than macos, but we don't have powre management, so that will come at some point.
<landscape15[m]>
Glanzmann: yeah, but for now I can use it for regular web browsing, so it’s usable.
<landscape15[m]>
Also Kate, and other simple software works good
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<landscape15[m]>
Since I’d like to build my own config, which options are required to get SMC working?
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<landscape15[m]>
For now, with my config I get everything working except SMC and mouse cursor
<j`ey>
APPLE_SMC (and all it's deps)
<j`ey>
and then everything with MACSMC in its name
<j`ey>
and CONFIG_HID_MAGICMOUSE for the trackpad
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<landscape15[m]>
j`ey: thanks I’m setting them
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<joske>
I found that Marco with compositor pegs one CPU at 50% all the time. Disabling compositing brings it down to 0. Strangely the xfce wm can run fine with compositor enabled...
<joske>
As Marco code is based on metacity, I'd guess gnome will have the same CPU burn but did not check
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<mps>
landscape15[m]: I think that the SMC is enabled if battery works
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* mps
pluged out power cable to check battery drain
<landscape15[m]>
mps: yes, but I’m using your config. I’m trying to get it working with my custom kernel
<mps>
landscape15[m]: SMC is enabled in config I posted, if you build it on smc/work branch
<landscape15[m]>
mps: yeah I know. But not with my config. Everything else works
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<axboe>
been daily driving the m1 pro today, it's surprisingly useful given the missing features
<mps>
axboe: I'm running it for about three months and maybe more now
<axboe>
mps: nice!
<mps>
first month or two with usb wifi and audio dongles
<axboe>
no audio here, but not a big deal for just getting work done
<axboe>
cpufreq support is probably the main thing for me
<j`ey>
axboe: are you developing on it, or jus SSHing somewhere elese?
<axboe>
but even clocked up high, it doesn't get hot
<mps>
yes, it is
<axboe>
j`ey: on it
<axboe>
need to figure out a good qemu setup
<axboe>
my usual first test is booting qemu with a kernel
<mps>
building kernel on it takes substantially less time than on neoverse-n1
<axboe>
that's first line of testing, then I build and test on a few boxes I have here locally for the next step once functionality is verified
<j`ey>
axboe: neat
<axboe>
my x1 shits itself with heat on compiles, so this will be a nice improvement once I get the qemu thing sorted
<mps>
axboe: for qemu-system-aarch64 you need patched qemu or qemu from current git
<axboe>
can't beat it for ease of testing, boots a distro+kernel in 2-3s
<axboe>
mps: I run self compiled on the laptop too, let me build it on the m1 and see where that takes me...
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<mps>
I run armv7, aarch64 and riscv64 in qemu quite fine on m1
<axboe>
cpufreq and suspend/resume, latter is a big one too
<j`ey>
axboe: poweroff too :P
<axboe>
mps: for aarch64, what machine are you using?
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<mps>
after one hour on battery and normal usage (reading mail, browsing, wasting time on irc ;), starting qemu few times) battery is drained 12% on MBP
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<axboe>
well I think I crashed it :)
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<axboe>
and again, hmm
<mps>
axboe: machine or qemu crashed?
<axboe>
machine
<mps>
hmm, MBP 2020 model didn't crashed for me long time if I didn't made some mistake in drivers
<axboe>
could be my janky kernel
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<jannau>
sjg1: for u-boot we are at least at submitted patches instead of private hacks
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<jannau>
only outstanding patch on my side is adding CONFIG_SYS_WHITE_ON_BLACK=y to the defconfig
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<mps>
jannau: imo
<mps>
jannau: imo CONFIG_SYS_WHITE_ON_BLACK=y looks ugly if character size is not increased
<mps>
I tried it earlier and reverted right after I saw how it looks
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<jannau>
looks fine on a 15" full hd display, I suppose we should do something about retina though
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<mps>
jannau: ah, could be on external displays, I only checked on MBP
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<mps>
and I agree that default font size and color doesn't look 'fine'
<sjg1>
jannau: Yes I have seen quite a few!
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<jannau>
truetype fonts require floating point and arm u-boot is compiled with "-mgeneral-regs-only"
<mps>
jannau: truetype fonts are ugly also and actually don't scrolls properly when cursor line reaches bottom of screen, I used pcf terminus like they are in kernel already
<mps>
not sure when the Andre's patches above will be merged upstream
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<jannau>
true type fonts seem to miss x2r10g10b10 support as well
<mps>
I doubt that anyone uses them, but I could be wrong ofc
<jannau>
certainly not on an arm target, it doesn't compile without modifying arch/arm/config.mk
<jannau>
the selection of true type fonts is a little strange, a single monospace font in the narrow variant (too narrow for my taste): Anka Coder Narrow
<mps>
I tested Anka only in sandbox with SDL, not impressed
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<nsklaus>
anyone tried to replicate macos font rendering in linux, if it's possible at all ?
<nsklaus>
it seems to me that even if importing macos fonts on linux, the render is not the same, what makes macos font rendering so nice ?
<hramrach>
the renderer is probably not opensource, and there might be some patents involved which may make replicating the same results legally dubious
<hramrach>
but in general truetype rendering has many options and parameters and different people like them set differently, even with the same renderer
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<nsklaus>
i was searching the web after i asked the question, i see many people wondered the same thing and came up with many proposals, settings, to get better looking font rendering in linux, some looks nice, i'll test some of these settings out
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<ar>
also, keep in mind that what you find nice, others might not. IMHO macos font rendering results in fonts rendering that's too… fuzzy? smooth? blurry? none of these describes it well, but those are the closest things that come to mind
<nsklaus>
of course, i was asking for options to replicate, not default for everyone.