ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
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<wlb> weston Merge request !1413 merged \o/ (Improve clipper tests https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/merge_requests/1413)
<wlb> weston Issue #876 opened by Paul Pu (puhui) weston crashes in weston_desktop_xdg_toplevel_protocol_set_fullscreen() of xdg-shell.c if disconnect the screen just when calling set fullscreen https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/876
<pq> drakulix[m], leaving emoticon reactions in Gitlab does not result in email notifications, and I definitely do not take them as reviews. Leave a proper comment if you want to accept/reject something, please. :-)
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<pq> or is there now an option to get email notifications of emoji as well?
<pq> The problem with reviewing with emoji is that they can be withdrawn as well, and they do not insert into the stream to denote which revision was agreed to.
<emersion> GitLab doesn't support RFC 9078 yet?
<emersion> smh
<pq> I also would never know if a :thumbup: is "LGTM" or "Sounds like a good idea if someone reviewed this" or "me too".
<emersion> people should use 🦭 instead, which is much more explicit
<pq> a square?
<emersion> no, a seal of approval
<pq> it's a square here.
<bittin> a seal here
<pq> this is also IRC :-P
<emersion> IRC or not shouldn't matter
<bittin> guess its more about installed fonts and terminal
<bittin> and irc client
<pq> Gitlab has the approve button already.
<pq> Just say what you mean, and don't leave people guessing.
<emersion> booooriiiing
<pq> Boring is good, and I'm not joking.
<pq> There is nothing funny for me here.
<emersion> i non-ironically agree
<pq> Personally I find "summary reactions" utterly useless. I use them when I feel like I should participate, but I also know it would be much better for everyone if I didn't. They give me the feeling of having reacted while being almost sure that no-one will see it.
<emersion> i only use them when it doesn't matter whether the other person sees it or not
<pq> yup
<emersion> they're more of a social media app feature than a useful forge feature
<pq> very
<pq> The definition of "summary reaction" is a knee-jerk, right? When was leaving knee-jerk reactions a good idea.
<pq> :oldmanyeallsatcloud:
<davidre> When creating a protocl in wayland-protocols should the protocol folder and file name include a prefix?
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<emersion> if wp: no, rest: yes
<davidre> For example we have stable/xdg-shell/xdg-shell.xml but also stable/viewporter/viewporter.xml
<emersion> yeah, viewporter is wp_
<davidre> Context: I find that in https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/228 dialog protocol is overlay generic
<davidre> emersion: Thanks, gonna leave a comment
<davidre> * a comment there then
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<pq> wayland-protocols README.md still talks about Makefile.am, and I don't think we ever had extension directory and file naming defined.
<pq> the prefix, specifically
<davidre> but at least <protocol name=" should include a prefix I guess
<pq> I don't know. Would be good to define all that.
<pq> I'm not even sure if anything uses that.
<davidre> If it has <protocol name="mycoolprotocol"> which inclusion criteria apply?
<pq> that's based on the interface names
<emersion> i think governance says that the prefix is optional for wp_ but not rest
<davidre> pq MAkes sense, until someone defines interfaces with two different prefixes in one protocl :D
<pq> yeah, I'd hope review catches that
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<pq> I don't actually know what GOVERNANCE 2.1.2 is talking about. Directory names? XML file names? <protocol> name attribute?
<pq> and it says prefix is optional. Nothing about which namespaces.
<emersion> "Namespaces are implemented in practice by prefixing each interface name in a protocol definition (XML) with the namespace name, and an underscore (e.g. "xdg_wm_base")."
<emersion> "Protocols in a namespace may optionally use the namespace followed by a dash in the name (e.g. "xdg-shell")."
<pq> yeah, interface names. No mention of directory, file or <protocol> names.
* emersion shrugs
<emersion> to me the second line is about the protocol name
<emersion> not interfaces
<pq> This could use improving.
<pq> yes
<pq> 2.1.1 is about interface names only. 2.1.2 is not about interface names but I don't know which names it is.
<emersion> Protocols [...] may optionally use [...] in the name
<pq> which name?
<pq> directory, file, and/or <protocol> name?
<emersion> it reads pretty naturally to me
<davidre> Just make it all match
<davidre> Less confusion
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<pq> file name is required to have the major version suffix, while directory name does not, and <protocol> name I don't know.
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<emersion> a single directory must be able to contain multiple major versions
<pq> yes
<pq> so that means directory name cannot be the same as the base name of the XML file.
<emersion> file name is kebab-case, while protocol name is snake_case
<emersion> apart from this they should match, i think
<pq> what about the major version suffix?
<emersion> what about it?
<pq> should be there or not?
<emersion> yes
<pq> I don't think that's doc'd anywhere.
<pq> I'd be happy to mandate namespace prefix in *all* names, going forward.
<emersion> that'd be fine by me
<pq> having been free game, I doubt we can find consistency in existing names, expecially the oldest ones
<pq> but if there is recentish consistency, I'd be delighted
<wlb> wayland-protocols Issue #175 opened by Michel DΓ€nzer (daenzer) wp_presentation: Issues with definition of wp_presentation_feedback::presented timestamp semantics https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/issues/175
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<wlb> weston Issue #873 closed \o/ (Touchscreen not rotating along with display. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/873)
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<pq> Is it clear to clients that an event group ending at wl_output.done does not necessarily send events for things that did not change since the last 'done'?
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<vyivel> pretty clear to me from the event description
<pq> cool
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<pq> swick[m], there are a few MRs open against the color-management protocol, and the xx_color branch is already behind. It's a bit annoying to target an implementation to a version that's known outdated. Would you make a new version of xx_color as-is, or get the pending changes in soon, or?
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<pq> particularly as the implementation is already written for some of those changes, so we would actually have to go backwards to match the current xx_color version.
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<drakulix[m]> <pq> "drakulix, leaving emoticon..." <- Honestly I think I meant to comment, got distracted and just forgot it. Definitely agree.
<pq> drakulix[m], alright, thanks :-)
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<swick[m]> pq: I'll take a look at the MRs today and ask everyone with an implementation if updating the xx branch is fine
<pq> how would updating the xx branch not be fine? I assumed it will be a cheap snapshot of the color branch that you could do even every week if there are changes.
<pq> implementors then choose which version they pick from the xx branch as they are clearly numbered
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<swick[m]> I have not looked at the changes yet but if they break compat then I want an ack from everyone that they can adjust their implementations soon
<swick[m]> trying to have compatible compositors and clients is the point of the exercise, isn't it?
<pq> not with time limitations, no
<pq> IMO the point is to have clearly versioned snapshots that can be discovered at runtime
<pq> everyone will naturally want to support the latest, but everyone also has their own schedules
<swick[m]> mh, right, so just release xx_color_management_v2 and a new version whenever someone wants it
<pq> yeah, that's what I thought
<zamundaaa[m]> yeah
<swick[m]> that would be fine with me
<zamundaaa[m]> FWIW I can update my implementation easily, the v1 one isn't in any release yet
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<swick[m]> okay, let's do that then
<pq> why would being in a release matter at all?
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<zamundaaa[m]> I mean updating it for Plasma 6.0, so that clients can work with the newer thing
<zamundaaa[m]> For git master it doesn't matter ofc
<pq> the point of the xx rename was to not guarantee any specific version compatibility
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<pq> releases should be completely irrelevant
<pq> because we do not want anyone to start actually relying on any xx version, and if you start thinking about releases, I think it gives a wrong message
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<zamundaaa[m]> They are relevant in the sense that for me the biggest reason for the experimental tags is so that I can release a compositor that supports the protocol, for client developers to write an implementation against, with easy porting to the final thing
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<zamundaaa[m]> Otherwise client developers would have to compile some compositor branch, which isn't always trivial. At least in the case of KWin there's a whole bunch of dependencies behind it that may need compiling too.
<wlb> weston Issue #876 closed \o/ (weston crashes in weston_desktop_xdg_toplevel_protocol_set_fullscreen() of xdg-shell.c if disconnect the screen just when calling set fullscreen https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/876)
<pq> you can release, but you should not pay *any* mind to what you release - someone always need to build from a branch or snapshot, either a compositor or a client.
<pq> otherwise we cannot make progress
<zamundaaa[m]> What I meant is that it's good to have the more up to date protocol in the release / make a new snapshot now, rather than in a few weeks
<pq> oh, yes
<zamundaaa[m]> It's still all guarded behind an env var and disabled by default, so noone's actually gonna rely on it
<daniels> pq: if I could πŸ‘πŸΌπŸ€ your β€˜I use summary reactions to leave an indicator that I have weak opinions that aren’t worth sending notifications’ message on IRC, I would :)
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<pq> daniels, triple square?
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<daniels> thumbs up with medium-light skin tone, handshake
<daniels> I guess you’d have to have a client supporting Unicode before you got reactions though :P
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<pq> I do Unicode, just not all of it, and definitely not anything coloured.
<emersion> the proper description is: THUMBS UP SIGN, EMOJI MODIFIER FITZPATRICK TYPE-3, HANDSHAKE
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<pq> even if the font had the glyphs, they would be too small for me to see, because my font size is good for reading regular text.
<kennylevinsen> I find google's noto fonts to be a good way to have fallbacks for every codepoint
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<kennylevinsen> the glyphs are indeed small though, at the current font size and distance the handshakey thing looks more like a... yellow heart?
<kennylevinsen> but better than a tofu or blank squares
<davidre> But there the glyph is even smaller than in my client
<pq> Thanks, but no thanks. I'm opposed to modern hieroglyphs. They are like "HTML email failed, what do we do next".
<bl4ckb0ne> 😑πŸ–₯
* davidre wonders now if weston supports "modern hieroglyphs" in window titles
<pq> Weston supports them just fine.
<pq> It doesn't draw window titles.
<emersion> π’˜π’‰π’ 𝒏𝒆𝒆𝒅𝒔 <𝒃><π’Š> π’‚π’π’šπ’˜π’‚π’šπ’”...
<davidre> well then the titlebar drawing code in weston for the terminal
<pq> That I wouldn't know.
<kennylevinsen> well, having to deal with CJK I can comfortably say that text has *always* been random hieroglyphs...
<davidre> Seems it fails
<kchibisov> kennylevinsen: big true.
<kennylevinsen> it's sheer luck that we can do work with just an ASCII table at times :/
<davidre> Actually the titlebar is correct
<davidre> but the terminal seems to struggle
<pq> CJK always had, that's the point; we latins didn't, it's like learning a new language
<kennylevinsen> pq: well, actually, the current shape of the latin alphabet is a very recent thing...
<kennylevinsen> even lower-case letters is a pretty new thing, especially rules about their use
<kennylevinsen> everything is a muddy mess
<pq> in the history of electronic computing?
<kennylevinsen> nah, computers are just a short-term fad in the scope of languages, but as they're here for longer they'll have to deal with how languages and writing systems are mutable and gross
<davidre> These kids and there new-fangled U, all we had back in the day was V!
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