ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
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<naemi>
pq: Does the cursor change need to be managed directly from said application? There is an application running as part of the script
<pq>
naemi, yes. And the cursor image will only apply while the pointer is on the app window.
<naemi>
hrm ok
<naemi>
thanks for the info
<pq>
naemi, are you sure cursor image is a good design, and not something like e.g. notifications?
<naemi>
it'd be the best imo
<naemi>
guess I'll use notifications instead
<pq>
the user can always move the pointer away from the window, and then your cursor image is removed.
<pq>
so it won't be a global'ish indicator
<pq>
I understood you wanted someething gloabl'ish when you talked about forcing the cursor image.
<pq>
It would be strange for an application to not control its own cursor image.
<naemi>
yeah that was the idea
<naemi>
(it's a password manager auto-typer, I need an indication that it's writing)
<naemi>
I don't mind if it's just for a specific window if I can set it with high-level tools (not code)
<pq>
no, not with tools. It needs to come through the same Wayland display connection as the app is using.
<pq>
I'd expect the typing to be an even bigger problem.
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<pq>
Wayland is fundamentally not scriptable. You need a compositor designed for scripting things, that's not provided by Wayland.
<kennylevinsen>
naemi: the problem would be that the specific window is that it would only be the password manager's own windows, not the window of the "target" so to speak
<kennylevinsen>
... well that became word salad, "the problem is that the specific window would only be..."
<naemi>
I understood :)
<naemi>
bit of a shame, this worked fine in x11 and I got really used to it
<pq>
you don't know if the input device created by uinput will be used by the compositor (maybe it goes to a wrong physical seat), and you don't know what keymap you should use to translate characters into key codes.
<pq>
you can get lucky though, but it's far from a good idea
<pq>
you also cannot control which Wayland window will receive the typing
<pq>
I guess making the password manager an input method could work? Or was there something more specific?
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<pq>
aside from direct compositor integration
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<pq>
copy & paste would work, if you allow the user to click on the password manager window to copy, and then explicitly paste into the target app
<pq>
wasn't there some kind of password manager d-bus framework even?
<naemi>
I can't use the clipboard for this, as one of the reasons I use dotool/uinput is because I need to type into software that has no clipboard too (e.g. spice remote)
<pq>
aha, that complicates things
<naemi>
I'll just send a short notification or play a sound whenever it's done typing, doesn't seem like this is solveable with cursor
<pq>
right
<kennylevinsen>
note: spice has clipboard support, but it requires the agent. Also no guarantee if those clients are well-behaved - some try to copy in the background for example.
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<pq>
I guess you also limit your passwords into 7-bit ascii and use only qwerty layout to avoid most of the keymap problems :-)
<kennylevinsen>
7 bits for characters?! anything past 6 bits is just throwing resources away!
<naemi>
I can't depend on an agent, and my workflow has worked for more than a decade without issue, it's just the cursor thing I missed from x11
<kennylevinsen>
you do you, just saying that clipboard can be fixed for spice for most use-cases :)
<kennylevinsen>
emphasis on most, rather than all
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<naemi>
for normal operation usecases yes, but there are a lot of times where an agent can't be run or simply doesn't exist
<naemi>
like when installing a new VM, or connecting to some arcane system
<naemi>
and that is a large portion of the VMs I connect to
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<kennylevinsen>
well, if that OS is either windows, linux or freebsd it should be perfectly viable - need for password managed credentials usually come after installing some packages anyway
<kennylevinsen>
but if it's plan9, netbsd or some arcane windows 3.11 setup for weird outdated control software, then maybe not
<pq>
It's as if "paste as keyboard events" would be a useful feature in a VM viewer GUI.
<kennylevinsen>
but possible is one thing, practical another
<naemi>
connecting to stuff (proxy, network, repo) during installation that require passowords can't be solved with an agent
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<naemi>
it's just one usecase anyways, there are other situations where the clipboard is not a solution
<kennylevinsen>
naemi: if network access to install qemu-agent requires a password, then yeah there's a gap for that password
<kennylevinsen>
pq: hmm, not the worst of ideas
<pq>
"paste as keyboard events" could be even a compositor feature...
<naemi>
there are systems I have to use daily which explicitly prohibits clipboard anyways, so I can't use it as a one-stop solution
<kennylevinsen>
Hah I was just about to say that :)
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<kennylevinsen>
naemi: heh, nothing like IT policies that actively enforce *bad security practices* like disallowing clipboards :)
<pq>
Wayland clipboard is not like X11 free-for-all-clipboard
<kennylevinsen>
but tbf, danish government login tries to disallow clipboards too, password managers just usually hack around it...
<naemi>
in my experience nothing will prevent uinput from typing for me, so that's what I use
<pq>
just never switch to dvorak
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<krathul[m]>
How does libinput convert the relative deltas in mouse movement from evdev to relative movement on the screen? Is there any transformation matrix?
<pq>
krathul[m], libinput is configured by each compositor at runtime, and has no configuration files of its own. So the conversion varies over user to user and mouse to mouse.
<pq>
krathul[m], libinput also has APIs for accelerated and non-accelerated motion. Callers choose which one they need.
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<zetaE>
greets
<zetaE>
one major complain about from x11 users is lack of xhost
<zetaE>
what's wayland contingency plan in this regards?
<daniels>
for local use, bind-mount the UNIX socket; for remote use, use waypipe or RDP or any other remote solution that fits your needs
<zetaE>
daniels: I know
<zetaE>
hasn't stop me from trying
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<Momentum>
anyone knows where i can find documentation for what the `data` field is used for on various `wlr_*` structures?
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<bl4ckb0ne>
thats a question for #wlroots on libera
<Momentum>
oups
<Momentum>
i thought i'm on #wlroots
<Momentum>
my bad
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