03:11 <steev> hm, looks like for me it's 3 (or 5 as a backup)

06:51 <avalos> I have a question: why is the arm64 ecosystem such a hassle for Linux compared to x86?

06:52 <avalos> Am I wrong, or Intel and AMD do much more for Linux support than do most arm64 hardware manufacturers?

06:54 <avalos> To me, it seems like you can generally run almost anything on x86 hardware out of the box, but with the newer arm64 laptops one has to wait years for incomplete Linux support from the community.

06:58 <avalos> I don't know how to feel about all this.

06:58 <macc24> <avalos> "Am I wrong, or Intel and AMD..." <- yes

07:05 <avalos> Should I be optimistic or pessimistic about the future of technology? It feels like the community is trying to delay the inevitable.

07:06 <avalos> A future of unhackable black boxes that only serve the purpose that their manufacturer wants. We are halfway there already, aren't we?

07:08 <macc24> shrugs

07:17 <macc24> i consider my yoga slim 7x to be more hackable than my laptop with pentium 3

07:26 <HdkR> avalos: The technology isn't the problem, it's the ecosystem that is. Community is trying its hardest to make it work, vendors definitely haven't gone as hard as Intel and AMD on Linux support

07:28 <avalos> That's true, but I have the feeling that the technology is also getting so complex that without vendor support, hacking the hardware is increasingly difficult, but I may also be wrong on this.

07:28 <avalos> macc24: what do you find more hackable about your Yoga?

07:28 <HdkR> Ecosystem is also more split/disjoint because there's a dozen vendors all doing their own things, where in x86 land you basically have Intel and AMD

07:30 <macc24> avalos: it's nicer to work with uefi than with bios

07:31 <macc24> HdkR: i think that not having the same way to boot linux across vendors is also a factor

07:31 <avalos> HdkR: true, but that's also concerning, is it a lack of standards?

07:31 <HdkR> Yea, Windows enforcing UEFI makes that a bit nicer

07:34 <HdkR> Unenforceable standards won't really change anything. Just look at ARM SystemReady

07:34 <macc24> sometimes you can get away with having efi executable and /dtbs directory(tho sometimes you also need dtbloader), other times you need to put kernel and dtbs into a magic partition made with some magic tools(chromebooks), other-other times you need to put a bunch of magic files onto a fat partition(raspberry pi), other-other-other times you can put u-boot's extlinux config files to boot, other-other-other-other times you need to

07:34 <macc24> actually put u-boot onto your sd card and have it device-specific

07:35 <macc24> at least for arm laptops i haven't seen a machine that can't boot with either efi + dtbloader, or chromebook-specific booting method

07:35 <HdkR> That's because those are the only two paths for ARM laptops today :D

07:35 <HdkR> It's going to be a WoA laptop or a chromebook

07:36 <macc24> or a chromebook with u-boot on it

07:36 <macc24> there's also stuff like pinebook pro

07:36 <macc24> though they usually have uefi booting configured in u-boot

07:37 <HdkR> Which is nice. If I don't need to deal with first-stage bootloader and get dropped in to UEFI then I'm quite a bit happier

07:38 <macc24> every device should have an spi flash chip which it preferentially boots from

07:39 <HdkR> The Jetson Orin that I use at least has extlinux and a little boot menu, so it's not much of a different experience

07:42 <Jasper[m]> HdkR: It doesn't have UEFI?

07:42 <Jasper[m]> I thought they'd switched

07:42 <HdkR> I think they switched with the latest release of jetpack or something?

07:43 <HdkR> Didn't bother to check, I'm running upstream kernel with some older image

07:43 <Jasper[m]> Well a while ago

07:43 <Jasper[m]> When they dropped X1/X2

07:44 <HdkR> Sounds like a reasonable timeline, definitely don't have uefi booting on mine

07:44 <HdkR> Each time I update the kernel, I change the extlinux entry

08:03 <SpieringsAE> I have towboot -> extlinux on my pinebook pro

08:03 <steveej[m]> on the x13s i can't get any gamma control utils to work on wayland with sway. e.g. with wlsunset:... (full message at <https://matrix.org/oftc/media/v1/media/download/AbZzNNr9agMA2rmRPeTvLHp9uzLK8QNMMwgsTO312jT5775Iyt_ZE7rvOPdLjdpSbYdOhqeLGeveBRDqIUVGrtNCeScgXFpgAG1hdHJpeC5vcmcvRUh3bFdOYm9UWHJNdnZKS3p5ZVJIUkhm>)

08:04 <SpieringsAE> Though I don't quite understand how the ext linux thing works, there is no binary for it in the boot partition, just a configuration

08:04 <SpieringsAE> I guess there is something integrated into towboot for it

08:07 <macc24> SpieringsAE: it tells uboot what to boot and how to boot it

08:08 <SpieringsAE> but there is just a config file, does towboot just directly read the config? does it have extlinux built in?

08:11 <SpieringsAE> found it https://github.com/u-boot/u-boot/blob/master/doc/develop/bootstd/extlinux.rst

08:19 <SpieringsAE> One thing I wonder about is if those new lpcamm ram modules would work with these snapdragon chips

08:19 <SpieringsAE> clearly nobody is applying it, but it would be nice

08:26 <spoonerandrew> Hi all, I've been trying to get the webcam to work on the X13s but with no luck. I'm running Fedora 41 on custom kernel (6.12.0-rc1 build from johan_defconfig as a base with btrs support added for Fedora).

08:28 <spoonerandrew> I have put the udev camera hack in place, rebooted and cam -l (libcamera v0.3.2) still shows Available cameras: nada

08:30 <spoonerandrew> Am I missing something obvious, could this be another case of slightly different hardware (i.e my camera is a different model)

12:16 <travmurav[m]> data structures in the DPP as guessed by me from only looking at a single dump https://gist.github.com/TravMurav/f898a1af3bdd3a5c72a47a81c622a340

12:16 <travmurav[m]> never bothered trying to find the code that parses that so assume the guesses to be very loose

12:17 <travmurav[m]> but there are BT.PROVISION and WLAN.PROVISION files in the blob, bt has 2 bytes prepended and wlan has 3 before the mac

13:25 <steveej[m]> spoonerandrew: i've also never seen it working here. however i just noticed that my system uses libcamera-0.2. i did test using `cheese` that was compiled against libcamera-0.3, however i'm not sure if that's enough

14:28 <jhovold> travmurav[m]: nice work! looks promising

14:41 <zeph[m]> <spoonerandrew> "Hi all, I've been trying to..." <- if u tell me how to get booted an image I'm more than happy to test with you and try to contribute. right now i'm not even getting to a GRUB menu...

14:42 <zeph[m]> spoonerandrew: is that a vanilla Fedora 41? or requires mods?

14:47 <spoonerandrew> I've been using F40 for ages (it installs fine from iso if you follow instructions on Wiki https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Thinkpad_X13s)

14:48 <spoonerandrew> But i has old libcamera so I upgrade to F41 beta using dnf5

14:48 <zeph[m]> spoonerandrew: ah no, I thought u were talking about the Dell XPS13 ...

14:51 <spoonerandrew> Nah, no fancy new Dell here, trusty old Thinkpad, used to have intel XPS13 ages ago which was great for Linux untill it dropped you to command line without scaling at native 4k... font was too small to see if you had typos

14:56 <zeph[m]> spoonerandrew: i dodged the 4k monitor... for exactly that reason... I still have a Huaway Matebook with exactly that issue... on top of the touchscreen feature that I hated as well...

16:14 <macc24> why would you hate having a touchscreen

16:19 <zeph[m]> macc24: because it is just error prone... at least for me (other people might love it... especially when a colleagues comes over and "starts touching it without asking0"

16:19 <macc24> if your colleague touches your stuff without asking you that's a colleague problem, not a touchscreen problem

16:20 <clover[m]> my x13s touchscreen is awesome. but yes people over your shoulder will touch the screen and cause misclicks i've experienced that too lmao

16:20 <zeph[m]> macc24: i prefer to be the one solving it xD

17:42 <konradybcio> caught this on jhovold's 6.12-rc1 on x13s: [drm:dp_bridge_get_modes [msm]] ERROR failed to get DP sink modes, rc=0

17:43 <konradybcio> my external monitor is stuck at 640x480 or so as it can't read out resolutions

17:47 <JensGlathe[m]> that 640x480 problem, I've seen it here, too. My (escapist) solution so far: don't use it

19:20 <steev> spoonerandrew: here (debian testing/kali) i see it *most* times work, with cheese; sometimes it doesn't, and i have to relaunch a few times

19:38 <spoonerandrew> I've installed cheese but get "cheese-application.vala:222: Error during camera setup: No device found"

20:00 <steev> and you have the `cma=128M` on your kernel command line?

20:09 <spoonerandrew> yep

20:12 <spoonerandrew> although the johan config sets CONFIG_CMA_SIZE_MBYTES=128 so likely superfluous

20:43 <steev> i'm trying here and i'm getting

20:43 <steev> [26260.871583] cma: __cma_alloc: linux,cma: alloc failed, req-size: 4000 pages, ret: -16

20:43 <steev> [26260.871593] cma: number of available pages: 22880@9888=> 22880 free of 32768 total pages

21:28 <HdkR> $1200 for base config isn't terrible for the perf your getting, but would be nice if it was a flat $1000 :D

21:36 <HdkR> Competing with Macbooks for the same price, I could see most people going Macbook

22:49 <erebion[m]> "limited Bluetooth range" is no lie for the X13s, I already get drop outs when leaning back in my Aeron chair, it's like my mother telling me "sit straight pls!", lol

22:49 <erebion[m]> But it's probably good for my back :)

23:23 <steev> it shouldn't be THAT limited

23:24 <steev> some people have said that the "g" variant gives them better range, so you can try symlinking hpnv21g.bin to hpnv21.bin

23:24 <steev> JensGlathe[m] is working on a patch that I'd started a while back, which will use the windows firmware

23:25 <steev> that requires grabbing the b8c file off the windows partition though as it was never submitted upstream

23:32 <HdkR> 8

23:38 <steev> 9

23:45 <erebion[m]> And where do you obtain it if you do not have a Windows partition?