ChanServ changed the topic of #aarch64-laptops to: Linux support for AArch64 Laptops (Chrome OS Trogdor Devices - Asus NovaGo TP370QL - HP Envy x2 - Lenovo Mixx 630 - Lenovo Yoga C630 - Lenovo ThinkPad X13s - and various other snapdragon laptops) - https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/aarch64-laptops
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<freekurt[m]>
I love me some good looking WIP patches.
<freekurt[m]>
Thanks konradybcio and bamse!!
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<SpieringsAE>
Dylanger[m]: the m2 mac mini/studio I would at the very least want is already 4k+ here, and that one still only has 1 Tb of not expandable storage, the one with actual storage is 10k flat, might aswell get the ampere at that point
<Nios34[m]>
ah did it include trav? I think it mentioned Acer Aspire 1 EC
<Jasper[m]>
Yup, his domain is a .ru address
<JensGlathe[m]>
Who can pressure @torvalds to do such bs
<craftyguy>
linux foundation?
<SpieringsAE>
This seems dumb to me. All that is going is that these maintainers might get frustrated and go away.
<JensGlathe[m]>
no idea, I would assume such things need his agreement. This is sure to stir something up
<SpieringsAE>
s/going/going to do/
<Jasper[m]>
I checked the comments (not recommended)
<Jasper[m]>
It wasn't a blanket ban on Russian devs
<Jasper[m]>
I'm guessing it's a mail away from resolved, now what that mail contains is the next question :^)
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<macc24>
"hi i promise I'm not a spy"
<Jasper[m]>
Well I hope it's that easy
<Jasper[m]>
OTOH, can imagine Roskomnadzor not being happy with someone saying that publicly
<travmurav[m]>
This is kinda annoying indeed
<travmurav[m]>
But then it's funny
<travmurav[m]>
So like they removed *.ru just because
<Jasper[m]>
travmurav[m]: No
<Jasper[m]>
I checked the patch
<travmurav[m]>
Without elaboration or explaination
<travmurav[m]>
Sergey is well known
<Jasper[m]>
There are gmail users aswell
<Jasper[m]>
And other Russian maintainera
<travmurav[m]>
travmurav[m]: To be a BE dev, if you remember Jakub refusing net fixes
<Jasper[m]>
It's only a small subset of people
<JensGlathe[m]>
So its getting weirder
<travmurav[m]>
So they removed Sergey because entry said baikal and all other that said ".ru"
<Jasper[m]>
I'd suggest asking directly what's going on
<Jasper[m]>
Instead of theorycrafting
<travmurav[m]>
Tbh
<Jasper[m]>
I agree they're vague and it's bad, but I'd suggest trying to figure this out
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<emily[m]>
The wording makes it sound like their lawyers told them to do this so I would hope that they'll engage in good faith about resolving things
<emily[m]>
but yea we'll see
<craftyguy>
ya my money is on "lawyers made them do it"
<travmurav[m]>
Greg just joins Jakub in the list of maintainers I don't want to engage with because this is the shirtless way to handle this regardless of the real reason
<travmurav[m]>
Saying "sorry we aren't paid if you're on the list" would be understandable
<emily[m]>
I think that's meant to be the implication
<emily[m]>
as in "we're treading on dangerous ground if we don't"
<emily[m]>
but yeah I can't read minds
<travmurav[m]>
Silently pushing a drop without cc or explanation is a prime "code of conduct maintainer" moment
<travmurav[m]>
travmurav[m]: Thankfully I only had a trivial patch to net that I dropped from my queue and my usb plans weren't big either so not a big loss
<travmurav[m]>
Was thinking to implement dt regulator control for embedded usb devices like Webcam bur whatever, less unpaid work
<JensGlathe[m]>
this is harmful stuff
<Jasper[m]>
travmurav[m]: ._.
<craftyguy>
ya I'm sorry this happened to you and others. it doesn't seem like it was handled well, even if it came from lawyers. the optics are terrible
<Jasper[m]>
Less honorable way of being unmainlined than nergzd
<travmurav[m]>
I was kinda annoyed for the last two days as i didn't have much motivation for linux things lately already
<travmurav[m]>
But funnily
<emily[m]>
Sucks that this shit results in maintainers getting demotivated :c
<emily[m]>
I would maybe suggest voicing this in a public channel so the maintainers can be aware of your annoyance about this but totally uderstandable if you don't wanna engage.
<travmurav[m]>
I have some ec ucsi stuff in my queue, could just readd myself along the way and keep the circus going
<Jasper[m]>
I'd at the very least publically ask what the issue is
<travmurav[m]>
But if they allow themselves to behave like this i will allow myself to be a bit childish too
<Jasper[m]>
Even if you don't get an answer, that speaks more volumes than not doing anything
<travmurav[m]>
So i guess i should finally cleanup and submit that ucsi stuff
<travmurav[m]>
Also imagine how much can I inflate my ego being put in the same list as some rather significant Russian IT companies xD
<travmurav[m]>
As an independent developer
<Jasper[m]>
travmurav[m]: Spite submitting?
<emily[m]>
the best kind of submitting :3
<travmurav[m]>
Well, should harness the motivation somehow xD
<travmurav[m]>
Well, someone just asked on the list what's going on, will see where it goes
<Jasper[m]>
Ye, saw Geert's reply
<travmurav[m]>
there was a mail just now, cc huge list of people and lists
<Jasper[m]>
oh
<travmurav[m]>
But it's very nice to see a lot of people now reaching out even to me about this, which shows that in the end, we have a great community over linux and adjacent projects, with things like that being small individual exceptions
<travmurav[m]>
not the way I'd like to appear in the news tho xD
<JensGlathe[m]>
any publicity is goodpublicity
<JosDehaes[m]>
At my company we're specifically banned from hiring Russian or Belarusian devs. It's the law...
<krzk>
JosDehaes[m]: by residency or by nationality?
<JosDehaes[m]>
nationality
<krzk>
JosDehaes[m]: Which country law is this?
<JosDehaes[m]>
I think Finnish, my company is based there
<\[m]>
why would you get m2 though? m1 is better price vs speed imo, but don't quote me on that
<\[m]>
Dylanger
<Dylanger[m]>
I have an M1 MacBook Pro that I use for news reading
<Dylanger[m]>
Picked it up from backmarket, for €1,300
<Dylanger[m]>
It's fantastic, Apple have really put in effort to make it secure/nice
<Dylanger[m]>
\[m]: Honestly, yeah
<JosDehaes[m]>
M4 pro/max incoming next week 😎
<craftyguy>
how repairable are those? 🙃
<JosDehaes[m]>
quite good the later models, check ifixit. If they break at all, I've had my M1 mba for 4 years, and have had no issues at all
<JosDehaes[m]>
that said, if the SSD breaks, it's the entire board that needs to be replaced...
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<craftyguy>
ouch. in my experience, laptop batteries and local SSD/HDD storage are the first to drop out. assuming you don't drop it first :P
<konradybcio>
robclark pcie3 patches are for x1
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<JosDehaes[m]>
batteries are easily replaceable since the M3 macbooks
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<macc24>
<craftyguy> "ouch. in my experience, laptop..." <- or it gets so outdated there is no point in using it anymore
<macc24>
hmm can rk3288 be called vintage? it's like 10 years old
<\[m]>
<JosDehaes[m]> "that said, if the SSD breaks, it..." <- there were some reports of dying ssds, never had it though, I've owned 3 m series
<\[m]>
is m4 not the same as m2 was to m1? didn't read up
<JosDehaes[m]>
the M4 is a massive jump in performance, it's the biggest improvement since the M1
<JosDehaes[m]>
it's quite literally faster than anything else on the market at any wattage
<\[m]>
battery is spared more with arm no? and mac os caos at 80% max charge default
<Dylanger[m]>
<JosDehaes[m]> "the M4 is a massive jump in..." <- I'd love to buy/use, but I won't buy anything that isn't supported by Asahi first
<JosDehaes[m]>
well this could take a while, even the M3 series is totally unsupported
<Dylanger[m]>
Another major plus to Apple/AS is raw EL2 access, I can run VMs freely on AS, Qualcomm no* (KVM Driving)
<Dylanger[m]>
Apple recently stopped encrypting SEP firmware(?), so it should be possible to understand it better/actually use it as a secure enclave/TPM like thing in Linux
<macc24>
*points at slbounce*
<Dylanger[m]>
Ooo I didn't know this existed 😎
<Dylanger[m]>
> No. Qualcomm QHEE checks a devcfg flag that allows Secure Launch
<Dylanger[m]>
It's been a minute since I saw `devcfg` 😆, I wonder if this is true for unblown devices/DVTs
<Dylanger[m]>
From what I remember Qualcomm's reasoning was "security", specifically SMMU config
<Dylanger[m]>
> Since the firmware would check that the payload PE is signed by Microsoft
<Dylanger[m]>
So I'd guess with all consumer Snapdragon based laptops, this wouldn't be usable right? I really wish OEMs have SKUs with unblown/untouched SoCs.
<maz>
Dylanger[m]: it should be, because Windows.
<JensGlathe[m]>
yep. Windows is the key in this case
<JensGlathe[m]>
and signed
<maz>
Windows needs HyperV, and slbounce uses that to regain the freedom to use EL2.
<Dylanger[m]>
So either
<Dylanger[m]>
A) Find an un-blown laptop
<Dylanger[m]>
B) Buy an off the shelf laptop, de-solder and replace the SoC with an un-blown SoC
<Dylanger[m]>
To use this on a Snapdragon Laptop
<maz>
no. just buy any snapdragon laptop.
<JensGlathe[m]>
whut
<Dylanger[m]>
oh
<travmurav[m]>
Dylanger: we use signed blob for our advantage with slbounce
<JensGlathe[m]>
We're actually using slbounce to run on EL2
<Dylanger[m]>
Heh that's awesome
<travmurav[m]>
So as if now any woa device can have el2 assuming it runs windows with hyper-v working
<Dylanger[m]>
Could this be used to enable KVM/Linux to run under EL2? I haven't looked into QHEE/Gunyah for a while
<travmurav[m]>
Exactly for kvm or any other hypervisor
<JensGlathe[m]>
I have one Windows Dev Kit 2023 running on EL2 for 9 months now. with KVM
<Dylanger[m]>
Beauitful
<Dylanger[m]>
I stand corrected, this is great news
<travmurav[m]>
There are some mostly remoteproc related drivers missing on the linux side but afaiu on new platforms most other things work
<travmurav[m]>
Since hyp boots remoteprocs otherwise that is
<maz>
and my x1e devkit has been running KVM for 3 days now.
<Dylanger[m]>
Yeah that's really nice, do any of the Snapdragon Laptops support running Linux daily-able yet?
<JensGlathe[m]>
wdym
<travmurav[m]>
Salesman hat, but aspire1 (Chromebook level) is feature parity with windows except internal mic
<JensGlathe[m]>
Depends a little on what your daily is, but I use these for quite a while now. EL2 and remoteprocs is an issue (like battery loading) so that's not the best combo
<Dylanger[m]>
Yeah I've been daily driving an Acer chromebook spin 513, it's really nice, that's an MTK based SoC tho
<Dylanger[m]>
JensGlathe[m]: I'd like to buy a Dell XPS with Snapdragon SoC, but I don't think it supports running Linux
<travmurav[m]>
oh if you meant dailyable with el2 then even aspire1 has sound missing, tho modem/wifi works since, apparently, it doesn't use hyp nor needs smmu configuration to work...
<travmurav[m]>
and el2 sound is possible to bring up on 7c since can use adsp bypass like cross but I was not interested in implementing that
<Dylanger[m]>
Ah yeah fair enough, honestly this Spin 513 has been amazing, such a nice little aarch64 laptop
<\[m]>
ah yeah lol window shopping for now anyway - I don't think these laptops have a lot of margin anyway and I actually hate supporting such consumerist endeavours
<\[m]>
Dylanger how do you page up/down tho?
<JensGlathe[m]>
well what can I say. I have no excuses left to buy another one.
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<\[m]>
imagine you can daisychain the CPUs 😄
<\[m]>
eCPU
<SpieringsAE>
yeah the chromebook keyboard is a bit weird to work with, but a good keyd setup goes a long way I've noticed
<SpieringsAE>
one thing I've started with since I have a chromebook is swapping capslock and escape which is great, and delete = shift + backspace. Living with a limited keyboard is interesting
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<macc24>
JosDehaes[m]: why isn't that patch sent upstream?
<JosDehaes[m]>
I heard that upstream wants it done differently somehow, don't know the details
<JosDehaes[m]>
I think Abel said it would need to be reworked as upstream would reject it like this
<macc24>
pwrseq?
<JosDehaes[m]>
but it's working perfectly like this
<JosDehaes[m]>
no idea what is the issue
<JosDehaes[m]>
you can try to search the history here
<\[m]>
<Dylanger[m]> "I'm weird and never use those..." <- do you middle click scroll?
<\[m]>
you probably use tiling then? yet still
<tobhe_>
JosDehaes[m]: thanks, I'll have a look. I have merged a similar fix for the xps13. are there any concerns about doing it this way until we have a better upstream-compatible solution I could switch to?
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<JosDehaes[m]>
tobhe_: I don't think there's any issue, it's just a simple device tree change that can easily be reverted once another solution is presented
<JensGlathe[m]>
there is something with pwrseq I assume. But on that note, what if a laptop can have either WCN6855 or WCN7850? Are these two separate dts?
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<robclark>
konradybcio: I thought we were talking about x1
<konradybcio>
robclark no, but x1 will reuse that work
<konradybcio>
as will other platforms
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<tobhe>
JosDehaes[m]: should work for the slim, t14s and vivobook with the next update
<anonymix007[m]>
Jens Glathe: if a laptop can have either WCN6855 or WCN7850, it's most likely socketed (M.2 Key E), so it doesn't look like that it should need special handling for wifi (as it's just a PCIe). Bluetooth is a different story as it's usually connected via UART, so something clever needs to be done (i.e special compatible for reading SoC type and disabling regularor handling)
<anonymix007[m]>
tobhe: userspace code for active speaker protection on the DSP is available on CLO
<tobhe>
oh, good to know
<steev>
anonymix007[m]: link?
<JensGlathe[m]>
anonymix007: yes its BT that is the issue IMO. Since they have a PMU definition it looks to me like you need separate dtbs (with all the issues that involves).
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<DanaG>
I tried one of the HP Snapdragon 7C chromebooks ("coachz"), and I found I can't stand not having real home, end, pageup, pagedown, and delete keys. When I was still using lastpass years ago, one of their shortcuts was alt-pageup. Well, if "pageup" is alt-up, then how do you do alt-pageup on such a thing? alt-alt-up?
<\[m]>
yeah I don't understand these seemingly aesthetic keyboard designs, less buttons to make it look good?
<\[m]>
DanaG: there's a better reddit where someone replied with links and stuff
<DanaG>
With my LX2160A, if not for the PCIe quirks and the refusal of amdgpu devs to try to work around it in any way, I'd be able to use it with a Navi GPU and run the desktop at 4k 120hz. 120hz is for more than games, it's also good for just making it really easy to read and spot text while scrolling, and making window movement feel snappy, and making playback of 24fps video not have to do juddery 3:2 pulldown.
<HdkR>
Maybe NXP should ship an SoC without PCIe quirks :P
<DanaG>
I tried NVIDIA on it, and the binary driver worked, but the GPU tended to fall off the bus when it repeatedly changed link rates. There was no option to force it to a fixed gen3 link. I could only find a way to force it to gen1, by disabling gen2 and gen3 support.
<DanaG>
Also, with nvidia, there were no GL drivers for 32-bit ARM, so neither fex-emu nor box86 could run 32-bit stuff with acceleration.
<HdkR>
Well FEX wouldn't use the 32-bit arm drivers anyway
<DanaG>
I mean, no NVIDIA GL library for 32-bit ARM means no support for running of 32-bit x86 apps through either emulator.
<HdkR>
Would need FEX to finish its 32-bit thunking support for GL and Vulkan
<DanaG>
Ah, I guess I misinterpreted what the issue was with FEX.
<\[m]>
it's problematic you have to scour the net for any coherent view on this
<DanaG>
I'll be curious to see if Qualcomm has the same PCIe quirks as NXP.
<HdkR>
Would be nice if we could get a qcom platform with PCIe that GPUs that be plugged in to, yes.
<\[m]>
bought and tested a small displaylink adapter - works fine
<macc24>
that's not the same thing
<macc24>
technically displaylink is just shoving display data over usb
<DanaG>
I'm able to use a ConnectX-4 Lx NIC in a Thunderbolt 3 enclosure with my Surface Pro 11 in Windows, since there are in-the-box WIndows drivers for it. But oddly, the actual throughput I get seems more like 5 gigabits, not 10.
<DanaG>
Or rather, 5 gigabits in one direction, 8-10 in the other direction
<DanaG>
The Intel 2.5GbE in the TS4 dock, on the other hand, doesn't have an ARM64 driver.
<HdkR>
Does it saturate core 0 when benching just like my 5gbit NIC does in Linux?
<DanaG>
I'll have to check later (work meeting right now). I should find a job where I can play with this kind of stuff, instead of my current web software job…
<DanaG>
Weirdly, right now I'm only getting 2 gigabits through it, either direction. I wonder if something is up with my ethernet switches (one of them is a no-name from Aliexpress).
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