<doublerye[m]>
j`ey: I am! I was running into issues with docker and saw that the config on AsahiLinux/PKGBUILDs was pretty different so was bringing it in line... was your pastebin from zcat?
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<ReaganMcFarland[m]>
Hey guys! Finally got some more time to tinker around with Asahi
<ReaganMcFarland[m]>
Decided to do a pacman -Syu but facing this
<ReaganMcFarland[m]>
Need one of the main distro guys to help - this is a little over my head
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<kode54>
I love that the solution to poor bluetooth with the Mac mini is to buy an external dongle
<kode54>
(for macOS, not for Asahi)
<kode54>
hey cool
<kode54>
I love my bluetooth dongle
<kode54>
good thing nobody else in the world needs one
<kode54>
Out of Stock
<kode54>
Manufacturer Standard Lead Time
<kode54>
52 Weeks
<ReaganMcFarland[m]>
Rip
<KDDLB>
F
<chadmed>
i said it in #asahi-dev last week, but truly this is just bronze age collapse 2: this time the revengenance is personal
<kode54>
this particular dongle isn't even meant to be used as just a generic dongle, either
<chadmed>
yeah its a jellybean part from digikey right
<kode54>
it's meant to be a demo unit for one of Laird's modules
<kode54>
the Laird BT851
<chadmed>
you know we are well and truly f*cked when you cant even source jellybean parts
<chadmed>
critical shortage of 555 timers :P
<kode54>
what does jellybean mean in this case?
<kode54>
like, they usually get about 3k-4k of these things at a time
<chadmed>
low cost/ubiquitous/generic ICs
<kode54>
and when I got mine, they had a lead time of like 3 weeks
<kode54>
it was the recommended hackintosh working bluetooth interface, because it supports 5.0, and requires no special external firmware
<kode54>
none of that broadcom "pray it works with the official drivers" crap
<kode54>
I have one of those too, on a PCIe card
<kode54>
it requires the boot camp drivers to even work in Windows
<kode54>
and it has HID mode that doesn't really function in PCs
<kode54>
mainly because there's no Mac firmware to switch it back on when you reboot
<kode54>
I pulled it because it was buggy and I didn't have much functional wifi range with it
<kode54>
plus the BT adapter barely worked
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<clayscode[m]>
Giving Asahi a test drive. Find it amusing you can't adjust brightness levels. It's either 100% or off 😅
<nicolas17>
you can adjust it from macOS and it will stay that way when you boot back to linux
<clayscode[m]>
I don't believe I have it at 100% on MacOS, but I could be wrong. Will give it a try next time I reboot though, thanks!
<nicolas17>
oh what asahi calls "100%" is probably "what macOS left it set to"
<nicolas17>
unless you're actually seeing it too bright?
<clayscode[m]>
It's very bright
<chadmed>
plasma doesnt accurately report the brightness in % because all it sees is on and off
<chadmed>
its 100% is just whatever macos did before you shut the machine down
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<clayscode[m]>
I see. Maybe there's a different saturation level or something to make it seem brighter? Could be entirely in my head
<clayscode[m]>
Or not saturation, but some color setting
<chadmed>
well we dont have HDR or wide colour gamut so its going to look different to macos
<burgertron[m]>
any way for me to keep my muscle memory with macOS keybinds
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<chadmed>
you can remap ctrl to super/command
<kode54>
guess I should be glad I don't have any P3 monitors
<kode54>
or also simultaneously disappointed that none of the major Linux developers have P3 monitors either
<chadmed>
collabora's working on HDR and colour management in wayland
<chadmed>
but starting from virtually nothing, its going to be a while before they come up with someting tangible
<burgertron[m]>
blows my mind that this much progress even exists
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<burgertron>
much better
<burgertron>
wonder how hard writing a window manager is
<nicolas17>
famous last words
<burgertron>
i mean hey i could have my keybinds how i want them right
<nicolas17>
kwin has settings :p
<burgertron>
not enough
<chadmed>
if you want that level of keybind customisation just use dwm or something
<chadmed>
kwin already has a ridiculous amount of customisation though
<burgertron>
main thing i want to have my cmd-t in firefox without swapping ctrl
<chadmed>
yeah one thing that would be nice is mapping ctrl+shift to cmd in konsole even
<burgertron>
my mental illness may go deeper than the doctor thinks
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<burgertron>
If I call it "Ringo", I could have my own little version of the 'GNU plus Linux' copypasta :P
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<burgertron>
only way to get there is to make something though
<chadmed>
fitting name but it can only work on Apple hardware
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<burgertron>
nothing a little help from /proc/cpuinfo can't do
<kode54>
when will /proc/cpuinfo actually have CPU model names in it?
<kode54>
same for the proc files that show the system model
<burgertron>
lscpu can tell it's apple
<kode54>
oh
<burgertron>
guessing that's what "0x61" means
<kode54>
so I guess this piece of crap I was testing just has system models hard coded into it
<chadmed>
yeah apple have their own vendor id in the arm scheme
<kode54>
"alpha" of geekbench for Linux
<chadmed>
implementer id* sorry
<kode54>
it just shows emptystring for the CPU model name
<kode54>
and "N/A" for the system model name
<kode54>
passmark for macOS is also special
<kode54>
they make sure you can't submit results from Rosetta
<kode54>
geekbench has no qualms about submitting translator results
<kode54>
in fact, they mandate you always submit your results to even see them unless you buy it
<burgertron>
documentation for a lot of things is too big-wordy
<burgertron>
i want many small words in comments for code
<chadmed>
hm interesting
<chadmed>
the cores in the m1 pro/max are different variants
<chadmed>
0x22 and 0x23 are meant to be firestorm and icestorm
<chadmed>
MIDR_EL1 has the pro/max as 0x24 and 0x25
<burgertron>
though i do think it has to do with me being tired
<kode54>
well, yeah, they are a different layout
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<kode54>
4/4 vs 8/2
<chadmed>
MIDR_EL1 is a per-core thing
<kode54>
yes
<kode54>
but maybe they identify them as different parts because they're different IC blocks entirely
<chadmed>
yeah id guess it means theyre different revisions
<kode54>
I also saw someone "expecting" that "M2" is still coming "this year" and will be "worlds better"
<chadmed>
which makes sense because the A14 Firestorm and Icestorm were 0x21 and 0x20 respectively
<kode54>
like, I'm barely expecting it to be more than a desktop version of the A15
<kode54>
to that guy, I am wondering, like, are you expecting them to release a base model chip that tops the M1 Ultra?
<chadmed>
Avalanche and Blizzard are both about a 10% jump in IPC so its a decent uplift
<kode54>
oh
<chadmed>
more interesting will be how little power they draw
<kode54>
but does that uplift benefit anything that doesn't use objc_msgSend?
<chadmed>
i expect the base M2 would probably handily outdo an M1 Max in single threaded and lightly threaded applications
<kode54>
well, that's a given
<kode54>
it will outdo an M1 Ultra in single threaded
<kode54>
since the entire M1 series has roughly the same single threaded performance across the board
<chadmed>
yeah
<kode54>
Max Tech being an idiot expecting desktop SKUs to outperform laptops with the same damn CPU, because "clearly it's only 'throttling' because laptop"
<chadmed>
the AGX block is going to be more interesting than the CPUs imo
<kode54>
that'll kick ass
<kode54>
but I'm still waiting on AGX to come to Linux
<kode54>
and DCP
<chadmed>
according to wikipedia the A15 gets about 1.5 TFLOPS out of 5 cores in its power constrained envelope
<chadmed>
A14 got 1.2
<kode54>
hot damn
<kode54>
meanwhile I'm still waiting on devs to make adequate use of this stuff I already have
<kode54>
hi, you have this most excellent GPU block, why don't more devs port their crap over
<kode54>
oh I know, because the user base is <1% of their potential market
<kode54>
15-20k potential customers is nothing
<kode54>
that's probably enough to fund one developer for a month or something I guess
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<clayscode[m]>
Wish there was something I could do to contribute (other than sponsor the project on Patreon). My kernel hacking skills are almost non-existent though 😅
<chadmed>
well i have a couple of games that have native metal ports, but to make room to install them id have to nuke this linux install again and i dont really fancy doing that
<chadmed>
id also be compelled to replay deus ex mankind divided which i found bitterly disappointing
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<clayscode[m]>
Could always grab one of the Samsung T series drives
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<chadmed>
bit povvo at the moment :P
<clayscode[m]>
Yeah, guess these machines aren't cheap lol
<chadmed>
nah not even the machine, just been neglecting work to focus on study and research this year
<clayscode[m]>
Fair enough
<clayscode[m]>
So how do the large page sizes cause certain software not to work?
<ReaganMcFarland[m]>
^ I’m actually curious about this too
<chadmed>
its usually because they have their own malloc implementations or weird optimisations that rely on assuming a certain page alignment
<chadmed>
in the former example, they might be statically linked against a malloc that assumes 4k pages, so when it goes to allocate the next page it goes page[0]+4k, and finds that its collided with page[0]
<chadmed>
the latter is much the same but harder to fix
<chadmed>
the fix is theoretically easy, stop using hardcoded page alignments
<chadmed>
much harder to fix when your codebase relies on those assumptions to run fast
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<chadmed>
no software for aarch64 should have ever assumed a page size since it breaks spec, but we dont live in a fair or good world
<clayscode[m]>
I see. The 16k page size is just a performance based decision, not a HW requirement right?
<chadmed>
this particular hardware supports both 16k and 4k pages natively
<chadmed>
16k is faster for reasons
<chadmed>
but the aarch64 spec says that 4k, 16k and 64k pages are all fair game
<chadmed>
which is why software should not assume any particular alignment
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<kode54>
uh
<kode54>
grub was updated
<kode54>
is there anything special I need to do?
<kode54>
2:2.06-4.1 -> 2:2.06-5
<marcan>
no, but don't run update-grub yet, I need to check that I didn't miss something there
<kode54>
oh, okay
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<kode54>
marcan: well?
<kode54>
probably too soon to ask
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<Cy8aer[m]>
Someone interested in installing Debian with a crypted file system? https://g3la.de/hedgedoc/s/MIaCyVv1A# - but be warned: the document is full of bugs and please use it only if you know what you do.
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<chadmed>
you should instruct users to use iwd instead of wpa_supplicant
<chadmed>
seems to be more reliable on these machines, integrates better with systemd and we support it
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<ktz_[m]>
"Tor browser requires a CPU with SSE2 support. Exiting"
<ktz_[m]>
So that means I can't run it without a vm right?
<kode54>
no, it sounds like the maintainers are dumb
<chadmed>
theres an android version so it definitely works on arm
<chadmed>
you might have to build it youtself from source though
<ktz_[m]>
okay, I'll probably setup some vm up anyway so won't bother
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<Cy8aer[m]>
@chadmed - my document depends on the standard debian installation and they use `wpa_supplicant`. I do not know how good `iwd` is integrated in debian...
<Cy8aer[m]>
* @chadmed: -
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<Cy8aer[m]>
And I for myself installed the disk image without any `wpa_supplicant` configuration and used the network manager config from the running gnome instead.
<chadmed>
the asahi image or debian?
<Cy8aer[m]>
(which luckily worked)
<chadmed>
because if the former, then that would use iwd. if the latter then installing gnome would have probably pulled in wpa_supplicant anyway
<Cy8aer[m]>
debian.
<Cy8aer[m]>
yes.
<Cy8aer[m]>
Depending of the gnome stuff in debian there is no other chance.
<Cy8aer[m]>
But it works without problems including wpa enterprise for me.
<Glanzmann>
Cy8aer[m]: I use iwd at the moment because it lets me better prefer 5ghz. But I use wpa_supplicant in the past with edu roam enterprise certificate bases authentication. I also have wpa_supplicant.conf with a lot of ssids ca. 100 around the world that I carry around on my Linux laptops.
<Glanzmann>
Cy8aer[m]: I see. I don't use network manager.
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<as400[m]>
Cy8aer: nice writeup. I suggest adding one thing. If you create BTRFS using 16k page size kernel and defaults you're going to have 16k sector size. Which means that this btrfs volume will not be mountable under 4k page size kernel.
<as400[m]>
you can use mkfs.btrfs -s switch to create 4k sector size btrfs. Then it will be mountable by whatever kernel. Be it 4k or 16k.
<Cy8aer[m]>
What happens the other way round? Create btrfs with 4k: Is it possible to change to a 16k kernel later?
<chadmed>
yeah because it will use 4k sectors
<Cy8aer[m]>
Just got panic to have a reinstall then 😕
<chadmed>
you can put 4k sectors in 16k pages, you cant pack a 16k sector into a 4k page
<as400[m]>
yeah - 4k sector size will give you more flexibility
<mps>
Glanzmann: you know you can rewrite wpa_s ssids to iwd files with a script
<Glanzmann>
mps: Sure, but I also have certificates in there and private keys and stuff like that. Anyway at the moment I'm needing it because, I don't travel that much. So currently I have two ssids I connect to.
<mps>
Glanzmann: also certificates can be 'converted'
<Glanzmann>
I tried btrfs years ago and it made my ssd feel like a spinning disk, so on the same day I went back to ext4. However I saw some performance comparision between ext4 and btrfs and while it is still worse, it is not as worse as it used to be. So what features about btrfs are you using? Just snapshots or also remote replication?
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<chadmed>
i have not noticed any slowdown using btrfs on my nvme drives
<Cy8aer[m]>
I am using it for nearly 10 years now. Yes there is some learning line to use it right but then it is very useful. I just run `k3s` with btrfs snapshots...
<mps>
following kernel git log few years and seeing how much btrfs are in nearly every minor releases I wouldn't dare to use btrfs
<Glanzmann>
I just looked up in my notes, I tried it 2008.
<mps>
s/much/much fixes/
<Cy8aer[m]>
hm shot my (intel) laptop dead with iwd...
<chadmed>
hm phoronix benchmarks from kernel 5.14 shows it being significantly slower for IO-heavy tasks
<chadmed>
did you tell NetworkManager to use it as the backend?
<mps>
Cy8aer[m]: iwd doesn't work with old wifi, wext, drivers
<Cy8aer[m]>
Yes, wpa-psk worked but I was not able to make wpa-enterprise tls.
<Cy8aer[m]>
and - of course I needed to re-setup the wifi configs.
<Cy8aer[m]>
@chadmed: 5.14 had significant performance problems with btrfs.
<Cy8aer[m]>
ahem k3s is also working on my asahi/debian installation with btrfs. Now it is funny to get arm64 containers for my use cases...
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<Cy8aer[m]>
chadmed: changed my formatting to `btrfs -s 4k /dev/mapper/hostname-root` in my document.
<Cy8aer[m]>
* to `mkfs.btrfs -s
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<Cy8aer[m]>
oups last was to as400
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<as400[m]>
Cy8aer - nice :) As to btrfs - I guess it will always be slower than ext. But you have multiple mount options to improve btrfs performance. But nobody uses them in those tests.
<Cy8aer[m]>
It is always slower with btrfs and luks...
<Cy8aer[m]>
but the thing is fast as hell: starting thunderbird ist instant. On my (older) intel machines it takes 10s to see the login.
<as400[m]>
Cy8aer - on the other hand luks + btrfs is faster than luks+lvm+ext4 :) There are always two sides of the coin.
<Cy8aer[m]>
Yeah, but I have the lvm layer on my setup with btrfs too - to have a swapt partition crypted as well...
<Cy8aer[m]>
It is historic - for hibernating.
<as400[m]>
Ok, fair enough
<Glanzmann>
Cy8aer[m]: Yes, these machines are really fast. I also noticed that firefox starts instant even with cold buffer cache.
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<cmalvi[m]>
Hi, any way to install a 4K kernel on arch asahi?
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<Major_Biscuit>
A 4k kernel?
<cmalvi[m]>
sorry, a kernel with 4Kk page size, to use electron apps
<mps>
chadmed: I wanted it to run in install to embed proper gpt partition in BOOTAA64.efi
<cmalvi[m]>
ok so i just need to run it after build right?
<chadmed>
no, the pkgbuild should update grub automatically
<mps>
chadmed: trying to make script which will build disk image to be flashed (dd-ed) to usb disk
<chadmed>
mps: the grub config file handles that though, the EFI executable just parses whatever is in grub/grub.cfg afaik
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<chadmed>
mps: yeah it should work fine if you just put BOOTAA64.efi in EFI/BOOT/
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<chadmed>
itll find the grub config file in grub/grub.cfg
<mps>
chadmed: no, BOOTAA64.efi must have embeded gpt partition number where to search /boot/grub/grub.cfg
<cmalvi[m]>
sorry i'm a bit confused now on what i should do after build
<mps>
chadmed: if you talking about debian grub then it works without embeding gpt, but debian grub is heavily patched
<chadmed>
you dont need to do anything, grub will be updated with your new kernel. just reboot and you will be in the patched kernel
<cmalvi[m]>
ok thanks
<chadmed>
mps: right right, well what error is it giving you when you try install it
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<mps>
chadmed: only when installing on loop mounted filesystem, on normal usb or disk it works fine
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<mps>
maybe could be fixed with adding custom device.map
<mps>
ktz_[m]: I upgraded somewhat alpine install guide
<mps>
s/upgraded/updated/
* mps
learning some new tricks in posix shell
<cmalvi[m]>
install success, now im' trying to reboot
<Glanzmann>
mps: Btw. Debian also patched the grub binary if you don't install the signed stub.
<Glanzmann>
But for adding a kernel, you only need the grub config not reinstalling grub entirely.
<Glanzmann>
In Debian this is done by calling 'update-grub' and it is automtically called when you install a new kernel.
<cmalvi[m]>
seems it replaced the stock asahi kernel
<mps>
Glanzmann: yes, I know these things
<Glanzmann>
cmalvi[m]: Does chrome work?
<cmalvi[m]>
i'm trying with vscodium and seems not
<mps>
and I always disable update-grub, don't like how it rewrites grub.cfg
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<cmalvi[m]>
tried with box64 but it always gave me page size error (16k instead of 4k), strange
<Glanzmann>
cmalvi[m]: You booted the old kernel then.
<Glanzmann>
cmalvi[m]: What does: uname -a say which date?
<cmalvi[m]>
the kernel i've just built replaced the old
<cmalvi[m]>
uname -a answer me with the kernel i just built
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<as400[m]>
cmalvi: check the config inside PKGBUILD dir - what does it say about page size ?
<mps>
`getconf PAGE_SIZE` should say page size
<cmalvi[m]>
ok i found the mistake
<cmalvi[m]>
there are two folder: linux-asahi and linux-asahi-4k
<cmalvi[m]>
i didn't see the second before 😅
<cmalvi[m]>
trying to build again
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<M0n0w1c[m]>
This the correct place for noob questions?
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<j`ey>
M0n0w1c[m]: yep
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<M0n0w1c[m]>
Thank you. I understand the USB-A ports do not work with uboot/grub. If I try with my USB-C dock, the keyboard works but then it appears the ssd is then not recognized.
<M0n0w1c[m]>
Is there a way to get a workign keyboard for uboot/grub on a mini?
<Glanzmann>
M0n0w1c[m]: I use a usb-c to usb-a dongle or hub to connect a keyboard and a usb stick.
<Glanzmann>
M0n0w1c[m]: Which SSD is not recognized the one connected to your hub or the nvme in the mini?
<Glanzmann>
M0n0w1c[m]: Also note, that while usb-a does not work in grub and u-boot, they work in Linux. So once Linux has booted you can also use them.
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<M0n0w1c[m]>
Ah, good news. The internal SSD. With the dock connected, uboot acts like I pressed a key and drops to a prompt. And from there it appears the SSD is not recognized.
<M0n0w1c[m]>
Yes, but I tried to add video=3840x2160@60 which resulted in a non-booting system. I had install fuse_ext2 to mount the partition and re-efit the grub.cfg. I t would be much easier to test if I could manipulate the grub menu to edit entries.
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<Glanzmann>
M0n0w1c[m]: I think you're doing it wrong.
<M0n0w1c[m]>
* Yes, but I tried to add video=3840x2160@60 which resulted in a non-booting system. I had to install fuse_ext2 to mount the partition and re-edit the grub.cfg. It would be much easier to test if I could manipulate the grub menu to edit entries.
<Glanzmann>
M0n0w1c[m]: So the resolution is put as an parameter to m1n1 stage 2 whic his not on the root device, but it is on esp (msdos) partition which you can access from macos or 1tr.
<cmalvi[m]>
linux-asahi-4k kernel works, tried vscodium and works correctly
<Glanzmann>
Also the parameter is different.
<Glanzmann>
cmalvi[m]: Congrats.
<AndreaDorigo[m]>
I have a noob question myself: is there a currently a way to use the full resolution and refresh rate of the monitor? I have a Macbook pro 16"
<Glanzmann>
AndreaDorigo[m]: ^ if that not works, you can try, but that is really experimental tg.st/u/4k.bin which is the new code from jannau.
<Glanzmann>
AndreaDorigo[m]: To my knowledge the resolution should be automtically okay.
<AndreaDorigo[m]>
Glanzmann: Yeah I can confirm that the resolution is fine out-of-the-box, I was mainly curious about the support for the full 120hz refresh rate while keeping the current resolution
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<Glanzmann>
AndreaDorigo[m]: I see, we don't have support for that right now. But to my knowledge jannau, alyssa and marcan are working on the dcp/gpu driver next. So there might be some support for that soon.
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<Glanzmann>
AndreaDorigo[m]: Also the current dcp driver has a bug (if you get it running, I don't) which degrades the framebuffer performance. So that your mouse cursor jumps aroung when you change the frequency.
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<M0n0w1c[m]>
Thank you both very much, I will give these suggestions a try later this evening.
<Glanzmann>
AndreaDorigo[m]: I only have an air, not a pro. But I like working with it and others do, too. Even if there is the frequency issue.
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<Glanzmann>
M0n0w1c[m]: Okay, if you need help, let us know.
<j`ey>
got myself a bt adapter today, hopefully this works and I can use my headphones :D
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<Glanzmann>
j`ey: hrhr. I use usb before (jabra 75, tesira forte echo cancler, jabra ufo).
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<j`ey>
Glanzmann: usb headphones?
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<Glanzmann>
j`ey: Yes, two different jabra models.
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<j`ey>
new headpones are more expensive than a little adapter, and no wires is nice ;)
<AndreaDorigo[m]>
Glanzmann: Thank you. Where do you suggest I might start contributing (something easy to start with)? I am familiar with Arch Linux, and xorg in some degree
<Glanzmann>
j`ey: Yep, I agree. But at some point, I got sick of the headphones and it happened to colleges of mine, too. So now I'm only using a tesira forte echo cancler.
<Glanzmann>
AndreaDorigo[m]: I think jannau said it nicely. Install Linux on m1. Pick something you miss support on and start working on it.
<j`ey>
Glanzmann: im using some random Spotify branded headphones my gf got when she worked there :D
<Glanzmann>
AndreaDorigo[m]: For me personally, I'm out of my depth with kernel development besides have been writing kernel drivers before. I think you need a lot of free undisturbed time to contribute, something I currently don't have.
<Glanzmann>
j`ey: hrhr, I also used my wifes headphones she got from her workplace for a while. And sometimes still do.
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<TheLink>
so your own wives gave you the means to not listening to them?
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<Glanzmann>
TheLink: Yep. But they also don't listen to us ...
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<j`ey>
TheLink: she just upgrade to a nice synheiser pair :)
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<TheLink>
seems to work out anyway for you folks :)
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<sven>
some simple task if you want to do something with the kernel: add interrupt support to the i2c driver
<Glanzmann>
j`ey: These are my favourite earphones. Very durable. They last like 5 years, previously I killed them every other month: https://www.thomann.de/de/shure_se215cl.htm
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<j`ey>
oh no, I can't do earphones, my ears are clearly the wrong shape :P
<j`ey>
sven: that's a nice task
<sven>
yup! I think the registers for interrupts are already documented (or at least named) inside m1n1
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<sven>
and there’s a pasemi_wait_ready or something like that already that currently polls
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<j`ey>
pasemi_smb_waitready
<povik>
tell me about timing
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<povik>
sven: not sure you saw the patch i posted yesterday that may fix jack flakiness: https://tpaste.us/WQRL
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<sven>
“may” :D
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<povik>
yeah, may
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<povik>
i don't experience the flakiness myself
<povik>
or at least not fully, but this fixed some issues i found
<chadmed>
could that overflow have caused audio dropouts on the internal speakers?
<povik>
hmm!
<povik>
chadmed: maybe
<j`ey>
which "USB Host Controller Driver" do we need, xHCI HCD (USB 3.0) support?
<mps>
povik: so this patch would be ok to apply even if I don't have problem with jack?
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<povik>
mps: sure, if you feel like patching
<povik>
but i don't know if this will be the patch that makes it upstream
<mps>
I have it opened in browser from time when you posted it
<povik>
there are other ways about it
<mps>
though I didn't noticed any flakiness on mbp
<povik>
sven: also, high chance this fixes the -61 type-c errors
<maz>
Glanzmann: as you said, works for you. which means nothing at scale.
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<Glanzmann>
maz: I agree. I had a lot of problems with sound in the past, so I was testing every path from povik that I was aware of. But lately it is stable for me.
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<sven>
do the problems always appear without that patch? do they always disappear with that patch?
<maz>
Glanzmann: I'm really glad it works for you, but that's not nearly enough to feed this to unsuspecting users. for all we know, this patch would silently eat your data.
<maz>
Glanzmann: while you're at it, why don't you just pick random, unreviewed patches from LKML?
<marcan>
and here I thought I was playing with fire by shipping linux-next... but at least that stuff *has* been reviewed (mostly)
<marcan>
though I'll probably switch to -rcs soon anyway
<chadmed>
i think especially for the sound system, where users can literally blow up their machines with misconfigured stuff, you should be extremely careful about telling people to apply random out of tree patches
<maz>
this is true of anything that *accesses memory*. mess with a pointer, corrupt a filesystem.
<chadmed>
i mean you should just not do it regardless
<j`ey>
is the first rc straight after the merge window? so 5.18rc1 is next weekend?
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<maz>
j`ey: yes, Sunday.
<marcan>
yeah
<j`ey>
but we probably want to wait until rc3 anyway
<maz>
-rc3 is usually the sweet spot indeed.
<marcan>
next asahi rebase will probably start tracking 5.18 RCs and I'll ditch the linux-next story, instead just merging individual upstreamed trees/branches as needed
<marcan>
not that much work and less likely to explode
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<marcan>
though I should probably also have a linux-next merge branch somewhere, because we might find things ahead of time there (*cough* that "fix a warning" patch that broke t6000 *cough*)
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<Glanzmann>
maz: Some years ago I run git head from torvalds on my workstation and cought some issues. :-)
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<marcan>
~everything in git head from torvalds has usually been reviewed by at least 3 people if not more
<marcan>
what you're doing here is pulling people's personal WIP branches randomly
<maz>
Glanzmann: and I'm glad you did. but there is a *major* difference between you running my no-quite-debugged code vs the 1000+ people having installed Debian on M1 and pulling an update blindly.
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<Glanzmann>
And I don't pick random patches, but for example when marcan merges some essentials patches are missing like the spi fixes from jannau which were not merged for over a month. But without these patches you could not uses the laptops. That are the patches I pick.
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<maz>
Glanzmann: the whole point of the Linux review process is to catch things *before* they reach the users. what you are doing is to bypass the review process and hoping that things will be fine. most of the time, they are. except when they are not.
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<Glanzmann>
maz: I don't. I build a kernel which works on the machines. I try to use the asahi branch. But if important patches are missing, I'm adding them. Also I don't have repository where anyone would pick them automatically, but people need to install them manually.
<sven>
“I don’t, but let me explain how I actually do”
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<maz>
Glanzmann: don't you understand that by making these available to people, you are actually distributing these patches and condoning their use as if they were "upstream quality"?
<povik>
well but maz we are bypassing the linux review process either way
<povik>
either he ships what's in asahilinux/linux or puts a few patches on top
<maz>
povik: and that's bad enough. this is Android again, just with another name.
<povik>
also i don't think any claims to "upstream quality" are made
<povik>
not from me anyway...
<maz>
anyway, I'll go back to my cave.
<marcan>
the difference is sven and I have shipped software that 10m+ users have installed that makes core changes to the boot process of proprietary reverse engineered systems without bricking any, to our knowledge
<Glanzmann>
maz: I look forward where I can use the debian kernel on a m1.
<marcan>
and that was like a decade+ ago
<marcan>
so we *kind* of have a history of knowing what is safe to ship and what isn't
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<marcan>
and knowing what people to trust with things and what kind of development/testing process works to get to a decent outcome
<marcan>
which is why I don't randomly merge things into asahi until folks (that I trust to begin with) tell me to and I take a look
<marcan>
and I especially look into spots where I know there's danger, like that time I caught that the DTs povik sent me didn't have the speakers disabled in one model
<marcan>
blindly merging that kind of thing is how people destroy their systems
<marcan>
and blindly merging from random testing branches where even the patch *author* hasn't said "this is mergeable" yet is crazy
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<marcan>
Glanzmann: I'm going to be honest, I'm scared of the time coming when you actually cause some damage and I need to deflect responsibility for the folks working on this properly
<marcan>
just dealing with the extra workload of answering your questions that you wouldn't have to ask if you'd just waited for things to get merged into the relevant trees is tiring enough
<marcan>
or with being *told* to work on stuff just to fix problems you caused, like that 12.1 thing
<Glanzmann>
marcan: That was a joke.
<marcan>
it wasn't funny then
<Glanzmann>
I got that, I won't do any more jokes.
<Glanzmann>
marcan: One thing I'm worried on is that you disabled metadata checksumming on the ext4.
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<Glanzmann>
marcan: Sorry for asking so much questions, but it was nowhere documented other than the code. And I wanted to document the process. I did my best to spread the knoweldge.
<marcan>
and I'm not, because I know the SSD controller is on-SoC, which means the chances of a bit flip there are ~the same as the chances of a bit flip in the main CPU, and NAND is error-corrected, and the PCIe links to the NAND chips are also error-checked, and really there is no reason to believe the SSD randomly corrupting stuff is a major concern on this particular platform, not any more than the ...
<marcan>
... chances of something else going wrong with the rest of the software which is alpha-quality anyway
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<clayscode[m]>
And this is why I don’t touch code that can damage systems 😅
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<marcan>
either way the checksum thing is fixed in grub upstream, they're just slow at releasing, and backporting it and sending it out to ALARM is on my list
<marcan>
and then we can enable that feature for new installs
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<marcan>
Glanzmann: the problem isn't asking questions about *released* code, the problem is asking questions about *unreleased* code where the answers may change anyway, which makes it likely to be wasted effort
<Glanzmann>
marcan: Got it.
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<marcan>
clayscode[m]: this is why I look at the vendor's code for things that can damage systems, recoil in horror, and write my own that doesn't suck :-)
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<marcan>
I saw nintendo's bootloader update code, knew there was *no way* we were shipping something using that, wrote my own extremely paranoid version
<marcan>
still had a bug once, went wrong on one person's system, all the safeties tripped and it didn't cause a brick
<marcan>
then nintendo decided that the best way to remove our software was to ship a dummy bootloader update for everyone, whether they'd installed it or not
<brentr123[m]>
Imagine getting asahi Linux running on the Nintendo switch
<marcan>
and ended up bricking a nontrivial fraction of all wiis with that
<marcan>
it even has brightness support and full GPU acceleration :p
<marcan>
kinda 4 years late to that one
<marcan>
helps that it's just a reskinned Pixel C, of course
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<Chainfire>
Wait, the Switch is a reskinned Pixel C ?
<tpw_rules>
he's not wrong
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<Ray[m]>
well, same SoC..
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<YichaoYu[m]>
Which layer does the nvme driver operate on? I was trying to create a new partition in the free space and the KDE partition manager says it exceeds the limit of the partition table…
<YichaoYu[m]>
I thought what apple use is just a normal GPT?
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<BenFE>
I noticed that my laptop has been running warm and definitely draining while the lid is closed over the past 24 hours, but I felt like it didn't have that issue when I first installed asahi
<BenFE>
What is the expected behavior when the lid is closed, and what could have changed if anything? Or is it more likely that there is just more stuff running now?
<j`ey>
the expected behaviour is that the screen turns off
<j`ey>
but it doesn't go into an idle state
<BenFE>
Ah rr
<j`ey>
so you only get a bit of savings with the screen off
<BenFE>
ok i'll just check top and see what's causing it to be warm with the lid closed
<BenFE>
thanks
<BenFE>
gtg to class now lol
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<YichaoYu[m]>
<as400[m]> "Cy8aer: nice writeup. I suggest..." <- Hmm are you sure that is the default? Is the sector size reported by fdisk -l the right number to look at? If so then it seems like mine is 4k by default..
<burgertron[m]>
I don't fully understand why page size matters
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<AdryzzOLEDEdition[m]>
ram is divided up in pages for way easier management
<AdryzzOLEDEdition[m]>
small pages are smaller so lighter to work with but slower if you have to copy lots of them
<AdryzzOLEDEdition[m]>
bigger ones are the opposite
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<dottedmag>
burgertron[m]: Some applications really care to be able to map memory page-by-page, notably many JIT-compilers.
<burgertron[m]>
makes sense then
<burgertron[m]>
guessing v8 is a jit
<j`ey>
yes
<dottedmag>
yep. some apps (ahem games ahem) like to things like implementing ring buffers by mapping the same physical pages twice end-to-end.
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<asahi-test[m]>
Hello all, i just want to report that i booted to ASAHI with 10% batt only but charging and could not see anything on the screen, rebooted, same. Then pressed the key to make the screen bighter and image came back.
<asahi-test[m]>
Just to inform
<YichaoYu[m]>
Nodejs works fine so I assume it’s not a v8 problem?
<j`ey>
asahi-test[m]: sounds like kde thought it might be good idea to lower the screen brightness.. but we only have on/off currently
<sad_walrus[m]>
Hi there, just received an error during installation of Asahi where it asks the resize of the existing partition. I say MIN then hit enter afterwards it gives an error saying that " Error: -69521: Your APFS Container resize request is below the APFS-system-imposed minimal container size (perhaps caused by APFS Snapshot usage by Time Machine)
<sad_walrus[m]>
Failed to run process: diskutil apfs resizeContainer disk0s2 168088829952 " Can you help me with that?
<tpw_rules>
sad_walrus[m]: that's basically what it says on the tin. there is a link in the alpha release post on how to delete snapshots to make space
<tpw_rules>
or maybe add MIN + a couple gigs
<sad_walrus[m]>
Allright I will look it up
<sad_walrus[m]>
Thank you
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<tpw_rules>
YichaoYu[m]: apple is normal GPT
<asahi-test[m]>
j`ey: exactly, also yesterday the batt level icon at system tray disappeared while the batt was very low, but then came back later after with more power. I didn´t do anything
<dottedmag>
YichaoYu[m]: it all depends on the build settings. Chromium bugfix is quite small.
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<YichaoYu[m]>
tpw_rules: that’s why I don’t understand why partition manager has issue with it.
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<asahi-test[m]>
<j`ey> "asahi-test: sounds like kde..." <- I do not mind using the max luminosity for now, because i have the dark mode desktop. Also on ff i use the dark reader plugin, it's OK.
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<jannau>
povik, sven: "i2c: pasemi: Wait for write xfers to finish" fixes tps6598x probe errors (-EIO) for 3 of the 6 usb-c ports on the mac studio when using modules and/or booting through u-boot
<bluetail[m]>
Hi - I asked before but can somebody provide a benchmark score running any of the Asahi Linux versions on the M1? https://www.geekbench.com
<bluetail[m]>
It runs through CLI
<bluetail[m]>
no GUI required
<sad_walrus[m]>
bluetail: would be very happy to share after the installation
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<bluetail[m]>
I'm looking forward to the result :)
<j`ey>
jannau: I went to the apple store today, mac studio is chunky. unfortantely I didnt have sudo so couldnt install asahi :P
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<bluetail[m]>
thanks
<maz>
j`ey: and you didn't run away with the box?
<jannau>
too heavy
<j`ey>
^
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<maz>
jannau: nah... some of my machines are over 50kg!
<dottedmag>
maz: Like, milling machines?
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<jannau>
single core results will be lower on asahi since we con't yet run a single core at 3.2GHZ
<tpw_rules>
really?
<lkvrsfld[m]>
Big ass scsi arrays?
<maz>
dottedmag: Sun Fire v490.
<bluetail[m]>
I start to think I should have built a server in the first place instead using m1 m1 mac just as a NAS with 10 docker and 4 other services 24/7... I could run 8 years on a cheap server till I reach the cost of a m1 16 gb if I go for a 80 eur i3 server from dell...
<bluetail[m]>
Or would that be not powerful enough?
<Chainfire>
Boy, Chromium code review is harsh
<Chainfire>
jannau: is that a Studio/Ultra issue or an Asahi issue? I seem to recall MKBHD's Studio review also saying he couldn't really get double the performance out of the Ultra compared to the Max
<bluetail[m]>
Someone please comment on whether going apple was still a good decision or not
<dottedmag>
Chainfire: depends on performance. You sure can load all the cores doing i++, and Ultra will do twice as many increments.
<jannau>
Chainfire: it's geekbench issue. kernel compiles are on the m1 ultra twice as fast as on the m1 max
<lkvrsfld[m]>
> <@bluetail:matrix.org> I start to think I should have built a server in the first place instead using m1 m1 mac just as a NAS with 10 docker and 4 other services 24/7... I could run 8 years on a cheap server till I reach the cost of a m1 16 gb if I go for a 80 eur i3 server from dell...
<lkvrsfld[m]>
I had an i3-8100 with 24G mixed ram running proxmox including a whole stack of my services (very limited, nextcloud, gitlab grafana bitwarden etc.) a stage clone, and some win VMs running AD for testing purposes, and even without HT it was pretty fast.
<lkvrsfld[m]>
> Or would that be not powerful enough?
<bluetail[m]>
lkvrsfld[m]: You had? Why did you get rid of it?
<lkvrsfld[m]>
lkvrsfld[m]: After putting everything into alpine lxc it was even better
<lkvrsfld[m]>
bluetail[m]: I could fit the whole services onto a 16G VPS. Data at an hoster (with encrypted rhel install) is imo better than running an 80€ i3 at home, with an 3 year old SADA ssd an 10 year old HDDs
<bluetail[m]>
lkvrsfld[m]: So you start trusting the cloud... I see but you cannot store everything there. You are not allowed to store anything you dont have the copyright for. And do you trust it? I wouldnt want my personal data on a VPS...
<psydroid[m]1>
bluetail, I think going Apple is a good decision if you are using the machine for ARM Linux/Android/macOS/iOS development, but if you aren't doing that, it doesn't make as much sense
<lkvrsfld[m]>
lkvrsfld[m]: Well, i need to type in the luks password in their kvm console, and sometimes restart some services, because gitlab let‘s other sysd services timeout while starting. But while running, it works great for a single person, running behind a vpn
<lkvrsfld[m]>
bluetail[m]: True, but everything sensitive is encrypted (with multiple layers). They are in germany, i used them for years
<lkvrsfld[m]>
I maybe should turn off swap
<burgertron[m]>
germany has some based privacy laws
<bluetail[m]>
lkvrsfld[m]: Is it Hetzner? I currently use Vultr but they state you cannot store anything copyrighted ... like music there or other stuff... you know
<lkvrsfld[m]>
Feds are less likely to break my vps, than to come into my house and gather my whole non-offsite baked up data
<lkvrsfld[m]>
bluetail[m]: Netcup
<bluetail[m]>
psydroid[m]1: I dont... Should I then sell my mac mini m1 16gb? Is it worth?
<lkvrsfld[m]>
Used hetzner too, their smaller ryzens. But i wanted to optimize it, just buying the bare minimum i need for my workflow
<bluetail[m]>
lkvrsfld[m]: So you encrypt everything on the VPS... What do you pay per month?
<lkvrsfld[m]>
11€
<lkvrsfld[m]>
Compared to 40€ on hetzner
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<lkvrsfld[m]>
I run my home i3, just not 24/7
<bluetail[m]>
I currently pay 5 eur for 1GB ram and fast core option on vultr... I forgot how much storage
<jannau>
this discussion is drifting strongly into off-topic
<bluetail[m]>
es
<bluetail[m]>
* yes. Thanks anyways
<bluetail[m]>
I'll put it into DM's
<bluetail[m]>
(I dm'd you psydroid. But also ok if u answer the query here)
<psydroid[m]1>
<bluetail[m]> "I dont... Should I then sell..." <- You can try and see what people offer for used M1 machines and if you can recoup your investment. I would have chosen a cheaper and/or more suitable machine for a NAS.
<kov>
from looking at geekbench results on several reviews I have the impression it is heavily biased towards high frequency and boosting, it is probably too quick to be useful as a more realistic test (and jannau getting a load avg of 9 makes me believe that even more)
<kov>
I wonder if cinebench can be run on linux/arm, they have a multi-thread test which seems much better, cinebench r23
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<kov>
but yeah, really curious that the ultra got 12k and the air 15k wth is that about
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<jannau>
the ultra got 15k
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<kov>
jannau, sorry, I mean 1.2k on the single core
<kov>
jannau, while Glanzmann's tests of the original M1 got 1.5k
<kov>
it's more like 1.3k and 1.6k too but you get the idea
<jannau>
I wouldn't assume that 1284 is the final m1 ultra single core score
<kov>
me neither, but it's weird that it's ~2k below the current M1 one, no jannau? wonder if there is anything different between the kernels to cause such a difference
<kode54>
cool, a spammer using matrix to advertise stuff
<kode54>
I posted a geekbench score too
<jannau>
cpu frequency scaling seems to be busted on the ultra, so that means the perf cores are just running just at 2GHz
<kode54>
it was ~100 points single core lower than my macOS score
<kov>
yeah, macos is still faster right now, it's also visible on compiling tests kode54
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<povik>
jannau: the remaining ports still have probe errors? or that's 3 out of the 3 non-working fixed
<jannau>
povik: 3 of 3 non-working fixed
<jannau>
other 3 were working but the shared irq got disabled
<povik>
\o/
<povik>
makes me feel better about the time i spent on chasing what turned out to be this
<povik>
(if i disregard that the fix was known all along)
<sven>
nice work!
<sven>
still takes time to track down bugs like this even when the problem is technically known in another codebase :)
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<jannau>
multi core score remains mostly unchanged with CPU frequency scaling https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/13935568 looked like CPU cores were ~50% idle during the multi core test
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<ktz_[m]>
@mps hey sorry for existing I'm sure I'm the last thing you want to be dealing with but is there any chance the draft will be updated soon? I didn't want to bother you again but I'll probably spend another 4 days bashing my head against the wall without success... I got everything in place, made my own boot.bin and it properly boots where it should, I got the root and esp in place as well (not 100% sure about the latter) but setting up grub fails
<ktz_[m]>
miserably and I'm not sure if its grub or something else as I got no experience of grub yet... anyway you don't have to spend any time on it I think I'll figure out something, just if you got something in hand take a moment and upload it so I can study it a bit, your resources have been huge help along the way
<mps>
ktz_[m]: did you looked at latest guide update
<mps>
ktz_[m]: no, I'm pleased that you don't give up and are willing to testing
<ktz_[m]>
sure, I'm opening the tab constantly
<mps>
ktz_[m]: ok, where are you stuck?
<ktz_[m]>
mps: thanks, I just had to learn almost all the components together for the first time and I'm having hard time point my finger on what's the problem
<ktz_[m]>
mps: So if I'm not mistaken and have done the rest properly (looking at esp mostly, I think the rest are good, boot and rootfs)
<ktz_[m]>
But I'm getting a rescue mode instead of the proper grub loader
<mps>
ktz_[m]: did you downloaded disk image or building your one with the script
<ktz_[m]>
Well did them both, my last attempt was with the image
<mps>
ktz_[m]: does image boots properly
<ktz_[m]>
yeah the usb always boots fine no problem, then I mount rootfs and esp and setup the disk there
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<mps>
did setup-disk pass
<ktz_[m]>
you know what, just to be 100% sure I've done everything as expected I'll go ahead and do it once more and be back to you
<ktz_[m]>
should I build it from the script or go ahead and use the image? what would you suggest?
<mps>
I'm not sure will setup-disk work properly, didn't tested on M1
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<mps>
ktz_[m]: I started to write script to install alpine on nvme but didn't finished as you probably saw on guide
<mps>
to me that looks as better option
<ktz_[m]>
yeah I'm checking for updates constantly honestly ^^
<mps>
basically this script is same (with some tweaks) as is one to install on usb
<mps>
eh, I had some woodwork for two days
<ktz_[m]>
yeah this is what I assumed as well I'm missing out on the grub part mostly I think..
<ktz_[m]>
mps: nice, interesting hobby, I bought a wood cutter and a couple of other tools to get started as well but haven't found the time yet
<mps>
right now I'm working on improving usb install script and testing it, and then I will try to finish one to install on nvme
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<j`ey>
ktz_[m]: grub in rescue mode or?
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<ktz_[m]>
if you could give a rough outline in a sentence or two about what grub needs I think I'll figure out the rest of the details on my own
<ktz_[m]>
yeah j`ey
<mps>
ktz_[m]: I'm preparing woods for stove, not sure will we have gas for next winter here in europe ;)
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<ktz_[m]>
mps: probably not, along with electricity for extended periods likely
<mps>
ktz_[m]: grub instal part is same as on script to install on usb
<mps>
though I made it somewhat complicated with this part of making better fonts for grub than defaults one
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<ktz_[m]>
just get into the chroot and target the efi dir with grub-install? I think it complained for missing efi context iirc
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<mps>
did you mounted ESP under /mnt/boot/efi
<mps>
before entering chroot
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<ktz_[m]>
yeah, I first mount the rootfs and then the efi partition
<mps>
and did you mounted /sys /proc and /dev under /mnt
<ktz_[m]>
from a chroot from alarm I've definitely mounted those partitions but I'm not sure if I had them mounted when I booted from usb
<mps>
ktz_[m]: wait, alarm?
<ktz_[m]>
just let me have another go at it and I'll get back to you
<ktz_[m]>
yeah the default arch installation of asahi @mps
<mps>
ktz_[m]: not sure this will work
<mps>
ktz_[m]: install on nvme should be done from external usb
<ktz_[m]>
yeah it hasn't, I'm doing it via booting on the usb most of the times tho
<ktz_[m]>
yes the setup-disk is always done via usb.. I just tried a couple of times setting things up from arch as well
<mps>
ktz_[m]: give me time this evening to finish usb install script and after that I will test installing from it on nvme
<ktz_[m]>
mps: sure, in the meantime I'll continue my efforts. Thanks for helping out man, it's been really important to me
<j`ey>
ktz_[m]: probably dumping the grub config and stuff would help. I dont use grub, but mps can probably compare
<ktz_[m]>
well I don't really need it anyway.. the next step would be targeting the partition from m1n1 and probably get done with it
<ktz_[m]>
also an "offtopic" question, how did you guys achieve such an instant boot? I thought voidlinux running runit was fast but ohh boy lol
<ktz_[m]>
essentially you don't place any services starting on boot or is it something else?
<mps>
ktz_[m]: runit is not so fast, though I didn't made it as pid 1 for years on my systems
<mps>
about 20 years ago I patched to run from read-only rootFS for router based on debian
<mps>
s/patched/patched it/
<ktz_[m]>
I thought it boots like this cause of runit and that systemd was inherently slow. I guess my assumptions were wrong
<mps>
ktz_[m]: I use runit on servers to supervise and control some services but pid 1 is openrc
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<ktz_[m]>
having a systemd free distro was one of the primary reasons I moved to alpine on my desktop as well.. I'm not knowledgable of init systems but I'm sure I detest corporate mobbing so it was the natural step to make
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<mps>
heh, I was one of early adopters of systemd and proponent of using it as pid 1 on debian-devel ML (shame on me) :)
<ktz_[m]>
Maybe its just my own paranoias but alpine having such close ties to docker makes me love it a bit less than I would and for no good reason apart from what my gut tells me. Since you're quite into things, have you noticed changes that you didn't like that others push for the reasons onto the distro?
<mps>
ktz_[m]: yes, and that is reason I wanted even to leave alpine
<ktz_[m]>
mps: yeah I remember reading it somewhere and I was like wo mps has been doing this for ever and really knows things haha
<mps>
anywhay I left some alpine irc channels and mailing list
<mps>
anyway*
<ktz_[m]>
mps: Glad my gut paranoioas are coming true most of the times... like they did with macbooks radiation levels which got indeed confirmed after buying a measuring tool and seeing the numbers with my very eyes
<nicolas17>
the what
<mps>
but after some serious people asked me to stay I didn't removed myself from developers, kernel, toolchain and infra teams
<mps>
ktz_[m]: radiation on macbooks? could you tell more or point to url
<ktz_[m]>
well I can send you a live demonstration with the radiation meter sitting on top of the keyboard and you'll make your own assumptions
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<nicolas17>
that would provide answers but you didn't explain well what the question is
<nicolas17>
what kind of radiation are you talking about?
<dottedmag>
Haven't you heard about gamma radiation emitter block in macbooks? There's a huge firmware blob that activates it
<dottedmag>
trollface.jpg
<ktz_[m]>
once I was done with getting my system in place I wanted to post a little heads-up to people in hackernews as well cause I'm sure many people are suspicious of such a thing but haven't got to confirm it themselves
<nicolas17>
I mean even the screen emits electromagnetic radiation (usually called "light")
<ktz_[m]>
dottedmag: yeah you can make fun of it as much as you like, even hug it in your sleep but I wouldn't take it so lightly
<dottedmag>
ktz_[m]: what kind of radiation is it?
<tpw_rules>
maybe that's how they get the battery life: RTG
<dottedmag>
tpw_rules: I didn't realize Intel power consumption was _so_ abysmal.
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<j`ey>
ktz_[m]: does docker have close ties with alpine? or is it just used a lot by people using alpine
<ktz_[m]>
nicolas17: yeah but it doesn't emit 2.4GHZ (which is used from your microoven cause its absorbed best by water) at 50-80k mW at constant rate... and mind you if you got a new iphone they got an 80ghz radar for "facial recognition" which you can't measure in any way cause those meters are only available for military use (bloody radars operate in that range)
<nicolas17>
so radio
<nicolas17>
that's not ionizing radiation
<tpw_rules>
it emits 50-80 watts constantly?
<tpw_rules>
that makes the battery life even more impresssive....
<oi_wtf>
he said mW, thats milliwatts
<nicolas17>
"80k mW" = 80W
<tpw_rules>
he said kilo-milliwatts
<oi_wtf>
oh, right, there was a k... lol
<mps>
80W is too much I think, probably mW
<ktz_[m]>
nicolas17: exactly, is this ok with you?
<mps>
all notebook emits this
<ktz_[m]>
No... its 80,000mW aka 80W
<tpw_rules>
wait, you were serious
<nicolas17>
to emit 80W of radio you have to consume 80W of power, and the laptops use less than that *total* when idle
<tpw_rules>
???
<nicolas17>
so I think you're talking BS
<nicolas17>
tpw_rules: flashbacks to the Wi-Fi spec talking about kilo-microseconds
<mps>
I'm radio amateur and with 30W can talk with all europe with this power
<nicolas17>
tpw_rules: (where kilo = 1024 and micro = 1/1000000)
<ktz_[m]>
Yes sure I'm talking BS... the 50V electric field around it BS as well cause if you take your theory it should be consuming the power so it isn't possible... but don't take my word for it I'll update you soon
<mps>
and my son is nearly expert in radio and never told me that it need so much power
<nicolas17>
ktz_[m]: make sure you *don't* wear a tinfoil hat, studies indicate that actually makes it easier to read your thoughts!
<ktz_[m]>
mps: Yes if I'm not mistaken 1000mW is supposed to be the limit but neither our cellphones nor other appliances seem to comply even to the slightest
<mps>
ktz_[m]: my son says you should return this instrument to manufactuter, he says on 80W you can make omelet
<tpw_rules>
like hell i would be returning something that emitted 80W for only 2W of battery consumption
<opticron>
nicolas17, also in battery bank measurements where they're starting to quote in thousands of mAh which I've shortened to kmAh
<dottedmag>
ktz_[m]: You're getting ~30k mW radiation in range 600THz hitting your head every time you step out in the sun.
<ktz_[m]>
mps: sure you do, try putting an egg on an iphone that's in a call for half an hour or so
<nicolas17>
you sure that's not the CPU heat?
<opticron>
ktz_[m], what measurement tool are you using?
<dottedmag>
ktz_[m]: That will be several dozen bucks to clean the phone at the repairman's.
<ktz_[m]>
dottedmag: yeah but this is how we're made to function anyway
<tpw_rules>
ktz_[m]: did you miss the "per square meter" part of the measurement?
<ktz_[m]>
yes its per square meter, isn't this the default unit?
<mps>
ktz_[m]: long ago I had experience with ericson phone when talking on more than 15-20 minutes like my head side is somewhat 'fried', after that I always use speakers on phone and don't talk too much
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<mps>
yes, I know that radio waves are around and they are bad but I take some precautions but not rigorous ones
<nicolas17>
eating a banana exposes you to more harmful radiation
<ktz_[m]>
I used to get terrible headaches from my iphone 12 and I thought it was the new huawei router I bought back then.. turned out that there is a 80Ghz radar in place and I didn't even know it
<nicolas17>
link source for "iphones have a radar"
<zv>
sorry to be a grump. there is an #asahi-offtopic channel; it is hard to catch up on relevant scrollback.
<opticron>
yeah, this is way OT
<ktz_[m]>
its called lidar iirc, dyor
<nicolas17>
lol that's not radio
<ktz_[m]>
zv: Right
<AdryzzOLEDEdition[m]>
uhh could someone look at my asahi-alarm-builder PR? it's nothing fancy
<AdryzzOLEDEdition[m]>
didnt wanna disturb anyone
<ktz_[m]>
nicolas17: Man look you're not being polite sending me tinfoil hat shit and such, its up to you to believe in such things or not and you do you but making fun of people isn't nice, not that I a lot mind personally but keep that in mind.. and on the radiation topic you're free to do w/e you like in your life but you can't deny the fact that radiation is multiple times whats already considered absurdly high.. have a pleasant day
<nicolas17>
ktz_[m]: #asahi-offtopic
<j`ey>
AdryzzOLEDEdition[m]: markan is the only one with access to that repo, he'll get around to it
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<cobre[m]>
not sure if i’m bring an Arch Linux noob or what, but I can’t figure out how to install apps like 1Password, Discord, and VS Code. When I try to clone and make package, or gives me an error about arm not being supported
<Malina[m]>
discord and VS Code use Electron which does not support 16k pages
<cobre[m]>
ohh right, forgot about that limitation
<cobre[m]>
that’s hopefully going to be addressed in the future, right?
<Malina[m]>
also if you're using the AUR, not all packages are marked to support aarch64