marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | Not ready for end users / self contained install yet. Soon. | General project discussion | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<chadmed>
ive been working on a couple of .configs that behave like generic binary distro kernels but trimmed down to support only these machines to go with linux-asahi. one for gcc and one for clang/thinlto for people that way inclined
<chadmed>
my hope is that they behave almost identically to a kernel+initramfs youd get from any distro, so that the kernel itself behaves as a user would intend it to. ill have these up on my github at some point this week, and then eventually i'll ship them with a shell script that builds them and an initramfs for ALARM and its flavours and one for gentoo as well
<chadmed>
obviously the long term goal is to get everything important upstreamed, but this should do nicely until then
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<tpw_rules>
i might steal that
<chadmed>
by all means go ahead
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<marcan>
the reference kernel is still an old build, as I said, this is Not Done Yet :p
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<marcan>
I need to put together a config that's reasonable for this use case, which basically means the same as a full fat distro kernel minus all the drivers that will never apply
<marcan>
which I guess means everything non-USB until we have thunderbolt, at least
<chadmed>
the configs here should work for all apple silicon macs released thus far, so long as you pair them with a gzipped initramfs
<tpw_rules>
i only see a clang config?
<chadmed>
oop one second
<chadmed>
there you go try that
<chadmed>
this is what happens when you spend 10 minutes doing mindless git surgery and forget to add new files
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<marcan>
putting together a proper "distro config" for the asahi kernel now (based on the ALARM kernel config, but with lots of changes)
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<marcan>
(basically turning on everything Apple, turning off everything else that's platform-specific and not attachable via USB)
<marcan>
(and also misc changes to align with the desktop usecase)
<marcan>
I'm also going to build most of the Apple stuff as modules, just to prove that that works
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<chadmed>
the only thing i couldnt get to work as a module was the smc/rtkit backend
<chadmed>
and the smc gpio driver
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<marcan>
yeah, I expect us to want to build those in, but they should *work* as modules
<marcan>
ideally even NVMe should work as a module (in the initramfs), so I'll see if I can get that to work
<chadmed>
nvme-apple apple works as a module and automatically calls in nvme-core so thats all fine. ive been running with nvme-apple in my initramfs for the past few days with no issues
<marcan>
and that depends on rtkit, so that should also work as a module
<marcan>
let's see about SMC
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<marcan>
I'm going to build with just these built-in: CONFIG_ARCH_APPLE / CONFIG_APPLE_WATCHDOG / CONFIG_APPLE_PMGR_PWRSTATE / CONFIG_APPLE_AIC / CONFIG_SERIAL_SAMSUNG
<marcan>
that should be enough for serial console, and everything else should work as a module
<marcan>
also rebasing on latest linux-next
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<marcan>
sigh... just eyeballing it, I'd say my m1pro is at least 2x faster at compiling kernels as my 2015 iMac is at *preprocessing* kernels
<marcan>
since I'm offloading compiles to my Threadripper but it's badly bottlenecked on preprocessing time...
<chadmed>
yeah its nuts. i retired my 2700x based server and replaced it with a 5600x based pc that was itself replaced by my 14" mbp and im already thinking of replacing that with whatever mac mini apple releases next and a thunderbolt disk cage
<marcan>
lol, 4 minutes 15 seconds for the full fat Arch Linux kernel build. this is ridiculous.
<marcan>
the iMac is *still* compiling...
<marcan>
I think I'm going to have to make a little git-sync script so I can push worktree/HEAD state to a remote git repo on my m1pro and build kernels there... (mostly because I rely on inotify working for kate to react to git changes properly, and that doesn't work right over sshfs)
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<chadmed>
i really wish grub didnt tear down the framebuffer upon loading a kernel
<chadmed>
they refuse to accept patches upstream to stop it doing that too
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<marcan>
running a build on the Threadripper locally and on the M1 Pro at the same time now... they're both scrolling at about the same speed...
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<marcan>
I think the Threadripper is going to win... but not by much
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<marcan>
TR: 3m58 / M1Pro: 4m22
<marcan>
ha
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<bestouff[m]>
You should do the same operation with a wattmeter on each :D
<chadmed>
thats the most astounding thing imo
<chadmed>
the enormous efficiency differenc e
<chadmed>
the M1 Pro pulls like what, 40W at full tilt?
<_jannau_>
hard to compare fairly, least bad way would be increase over idle
<TheLink>
apple is after all the time since the m1 release still the only big player using tsmc's 5nm structure
<TheLink>
pulling this off alone is a huge coup by apple
<chadmed>
theyd be really stupid to not release some 4U servers at some point
<ChaosPrincess>
btw, anyone compared pro vs max for kernel compiles per hour?
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<mps>
iiuc from above audio (MCA) driver works as module?
<j`ey>
if it doesnt, it should be fixed
<mps>
ok, will try to build as module and test
<mps>
I see recent merges in kernel asahi branch. is that ok to pull latest changes or some branch?
<mps>
some other branch*
<chadmed>
soc-snd-apple-mca builds fine as a module now
<chadmed>
the patch applied by the PKGBUILD and in Glanzmann's guides are also redundant since its in the branch now
<mps>
chadmed: thanks
<chadmed>
it just dirties your build for no reason
<mps>
so, I have only to add iommu patch, very nice
<chadmed>
also the changes to linux-asahi were just it being rebased against the latest linux-next so you should be fine to pull in those changes to your local copy
<mps>
nice (it becoming better and better, and simpler at the same time)
<chadmed>
as stuff gets upstreamed hopefully for well supported machines you wont even need the linux-asahi branch at some point
<mps>
chadmed: yes, that is what I waiting to make kernel and merge in alpine linux
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<marcan>
kit_ty_kate: I'm keeping the base image bare-bones for the kind of people who install Arch from scratch anyway
<marcan>
though I guess it should have *some* way of connecting to wifi...
<marcan>
wpa_supplicang is broken with WPA3 though
<marcan>
*supplicant
<marcan>
so if anything the base image should have vanilla iwd instead
<Glanzmann>
marcan: About threadripper vs m1? How many threads did you run on the threadripper and how many on the m1 (and how many cores does your threadripper has?)
<marcan>
all of them.
<Glanzmann>
marcan: For me it is not.
<chadmed>
Glanzmann: nah the off-by-one fix
<marcan>
11 on the M1 Pro and 33 on the 1950X (nthreads +1)
<Glanzmann>
marcan: I always use twice the number of threads than I have hyperthreads/cores.
<marcan>
that's just going to thrash your IO/caches more, it'll be slower
<marcan>
why would you do that?
<Glanzmann>
Keeps my CPUs busier.
<marcan>
your CPUs should already be ~100% busy with nthreads +1 or 2
<kit_ty_kate>
marcan: sure, iwd or anything that can do the job is fine by me. I really think there needs to be some way to use the wifi in the base-bone image.
<Glanzmann>
marcan: I have to benchmark, but IIRC it gave me much better results.
<marcan>
kit_ty_kate: sure, I'll add iwd
<marcan>
Glanzmann: sounds like you might be IO limited if so, check your storage
<Glanzmann>
marcan: I'm on nvme, but I'll check RAM. :-)
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<marcan>
anyway, this isn't the place to optimize your threadripper :p
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<kit_ty_kate>
marcan: PR updated
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<axboe>
Glanzmann: 2xcpus for compiles is somewhat of a relic of the days where we had rotating storage, and hence a lot of iowait time (mostly during linking, but also just paging in data) where it then makes sense to run more jobs in parallel
<axboe>
on decent storage these days, -jN where N is close to the number of CPUs will usually give you the best results, with N+small_bump might be a tad faster, but 2N is usually somewhat slower
<axboe>
(just my experience, and this is all based on compiling the kernel, ymmv on other things obviously)
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<Glanzmann>
axboe: I see, thanks for the explanation. Now I have to benchmark to see if I get the same results.
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<Glanzmann>
axboe: You're right linux-5.17-rc6 allmodconfig takes 9m41.128s with 1 thread per hyperthread and 10m9.173s with two threads per hyperthread.
<psykose>
:p
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<clover[m]>
i heard the alpha installer will be ready by this week. that's exciting!
<sarah[m]>
And hopefully a blog too!
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<axboe>
Glanzmann: nice!
<axboe>
man, looking at chromium source code, you really start to appreciate what it looks like when a project does multi-arch/os right (hint, they definitely do not)
<mps>
Glanzmann: kernel on machine is 4K or 16K
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<Glanzmann>
mps: Ob my macbook air is 4k at the moment because jannau said we will probably ship 4k kernels to end users but marcan wants to go 16k
<axboe>
doing 16k initially is a good idea imho, otherwise non-4k issues will never get flushed out
<axboe>
I hope to have a chrome patch today
<axboe>
but compiling takes forever, edit one header and there's 10k files to recompile
<kettenis>
axboe: these days multi-arch means Windows/Linux/macOS on x86 and Android on arm64 isn't it? ;)
<mps>
I'm for 15K too, but will have to use 4K for some time
<sven>
no worries, I plan to procrastinate on that 4K iommu patch for at least a few more weeks anyway ;)
<axboe>
kettenis: it's just a miserable mess of ifdefs, unreadable and imho unmaintainable
<IanPlatt[m]>
Hello! I'm new here and want to contribute / get my feet wet. I don't have an M1 device currently because I need help deciding which one is best for contributing / having something that's functional. I was hoping you all might have some recommendations?
<IanPlatt[m]>
I'm considering mini or MacBook pro, but don't want to go MacBook pro if I can't daily drive
<Glanzmann>
IanPlatt[m]: I like the m1 air because it gives good price/performance ration IMHO.
<Glanzmann>
If you have lots of money lying around, go for the max/pro models.
<kettenis>
axboe: and 95% of those ifdefs are unecessary if you just think a little bit harder and pick a solution that's actually portable
<mps>
IanPlatt[m]: some of us use macbook pro as daily driver
<axboe>
kettenis: exactly, and the ones that aren't, abstract them out
<axboe>
I'd hate to be working in that codebase regularly
<Glanzmann>
IanPlatt[m]: The mini is the most inexpensive but will have slow video on anything other than 1080p at the moment.
<kettenis>
I have huge respect for the guy who keeps it running on OpenBSD
<IanPlatt[m]>
mps: On Asahi or macOS?
<Glanzmann>
IanPlatt[m]: Also note that this year the m2 comes out. So maybe you want to wait a little bit more.
<IanPlatt[m]>
Glanzmann: good point, it's hard to know when to pull the trigger
<Glanzmann>
IanPlatt[m]: There are few people in here which work under Linux. Mps was the first.
<mps>
IanPlatt[m]: asahi kernel and different distros
<mps>
IanPlatt[m]: and some runs OpenBSD ;)
<mps>
kettenis I think
<Glanzmann>
IanPlatt[m]: I was looking for something with low power consumption and enough cpu to for browsing and watching videos. Most of my compiling I do on other machines, so the air is a good fit IMHO. Especially considering the price.
<Glanzmann>
IanPlatt[m]: Also note that we have our first OpenBSD user on the air. A guy called Theo. kettenis onboarded him. :-)
<sven>
“a guy” is a bit of an understatement there
<axboe>
oh boy
<IanPlatt[m]>
mps: what other distros?
<mps>
alpine, arch, debian afaik
<j`ey>
I thought Theo T'so worked on linux, not openbsd :P
<axboe>
j`ey: haha
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<sven>
lol :D
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<Glanzmann>
Theo will not be happy when he hears that we disabled metadata checksumming.
<mps>
IanPlatt[m]: i forgot nixos (is that linux distro or build system)
<j`ey>
nixos is a distro
<IanPlatt[m]>
I'm still not sure which I'm leaning towards, but this has been helpful! Thanks!
<mps>
IanPlatt[m]: I know that tmlind uses alpine for one year though with different kernels
<mps>
I remember that tmlind and I installed alpine linux and tested about year ago
<mps>
so, yes, alpine was the first distro seriously used on M1 ;)
<axboe>
mbp is perfectly usable for a daily driver for me (been doing that the last 2 weeks), but I'm told my standards are low
<IanPlatt[m]>
That's good to know, my biggest concern is I don't want to use MacOS haha
<mps>
IanPlatt[m]: nor do I
<axboe>
IanPlatt[m]: check the wiki for what works and what doesn't currently, some of it may be a showstopper for you atm
<IanPlatt[m]>
axboe: I will! Thanks
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<tpw_rules>
axboe: let me know when you finish that chromium patch. interested to see if it still requires those flags on my system
<axboe>
I have not, but it's about 2h for the whole thing. edit a page allocator header, and it's apparently rebuilding 9k files :/
<tpw_rules>
ok, so it's maybe 30% faster on m1 max than the m1 mini
<axboe>
this is just the little pro
<tpw_rules>
ah
<tpw_rules>
i think 2h is how long it takes nixos's official builders which are the big ampere altra machines
<axboe>
tpw_rules: it may be a bit more, this is just totally estimated
<tpw_rules>
i was just curious, not scientific lol
<axboe>
well now I am too ;)
<mps>
about month ago I build firefox few times and it takes around 30 minutes iirc
<axboe>
I can try and time it with the final patch, probably need to update to the newest source tree anyway
<axboe>
on 98.x something now, the debian source package
<mps>
axboe: try on alpine ;)
<axboe>
mps: I might try a different distro when I get the max, but not switching right now :)
<axboe>
./v8_context_snapshot_generator failed with exit code -11
<axboe>
oh god, still hitting some mprotect(.., 4k, ..) thing
<mps>
axboe: alpine have some 'bumps' around but most things are faster than on glibc based distros
<tpw_rules>
did you fix the BUILD.gn?
<axboe>
tpw_rules: didn't touch it, just using what the deb package had
<tpw_rules>
not sure what's in the deb package, but they set a linker flag to force segment alignment to 4k on aarch64. so the executables can't even load
<axboe>
tpw_rules: that one I did fix
<tpw_rules>
ah ok
<axboe>
tpw_rules: but yeah, insta crash on executables before that
<bluetail[m]>
If I understood right, we can boot asahilinux while keeping the real macOS partition / installation intact. Or is it a replacement for [1] the real macos os and [2] the backup system ?
<axboe>
bluetail[m]: you can keep it
<bluetail[m]>
Is it 'safe' yet to install?
<bluetail[m]>
And if so, can updates be done without reinstallation?
<j`ey>
it's safe, just not easy :P
<j`ey>
and depends what updates you mean?
<bluetail[m]>
Let's say I install this thing right now, but I decide - I want bluetooth support or something of the likes. How could I update my operating system to just get that?
<bluetail[m]>
Would there be an updater in place?
<bluetail[m]>
I mean, idk if bt is yet suppported
<j`ey>
that'll just work like normal linux updates
<bluetail[m]>
Wait... How are you guys delivering the m1 specific updates for drivers et cetera?
<j`ey>
that's all in the linux kernel package
<bluetail[m]>
I don't understand. I can only guess that you guys are in the case of arch linux commiting updates to their branches and asahilinux then grabs from there
<clover[m]>
yeah as long as you use the asahi distro you will get all of the linux updates
<j`ey>
bluetail[m]: there is a custom repo for asahilinux packages
<IanPlatt[m]>
j`ey: Also, as far as the not easy part, are there instructions somewhere?
<bluetail[m]>
j`ey: Does this work like the package manager in debian where it references to sources of the specific package/update server repo?
<j`ey>
IanPlatt[m]: the installer is getting close to being usuable, so I assume markan will write something 'official' up for that when its done
<clover[m]>
asahi distro will probably have its own kernel and other essential packages, but the rest will just be arch linux ARM
<bluetail[m]>
So I can install this version and wouldn't be worried about having to reinstall version X over version Y each time there is a minor update. Cool.
<j`ey>
immychan[m]: a 'remix' of archlinux
<bluetail[m]>
Theres also a debian package though afaik
<immychan[m]>
Oh okay, that sounds cool
<immychan[m]>
How are the GPU drivers at the moment?
<bluetail[m]>
afaik non existent
<bluetail[m]>
I mean, no gpu acceleration
<j`ey>
there has been some RE of the kernel side,, but I dont think a driver has been started yet
<bluetail[m]>
naive question: Is Rosetta 2 in scope?
<j`ey>
no since that's a macOS application!
<j`ey>
maybe someone can look at trying to optimise QEMU or FEX to use the TSO bit, but that's probably some ways off
<bluetail[m]>
I kinda want to test boot the m1 linux now because I want to verify whether macOS falsifies the video output or not. Days ago I said that the video that is outputted looks vastly different to me compared to window, linux, BSD
<bluetail[m]>
My claim is hard to proof though cause I dont have the equipment, but the eyes that are telling me something is off, since I can visually see the scanlines on macOS while I cant on linux, windows
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<David[m]1234>
What are the steps to create a bootable USB drive after having selected 'Arch Linux ARM' from the installer?
<tpw_rules>
David[m]1234: i don't think there are any. it writes the rootfs directly to the internal disk
<mps>
asahi linux distro? first time hear for it
<David[m]1234>
Ok, what are the steps then to have a bootable arch?
<j`ey>
the installer should install it
<David[m]1234>
I have the uboot timeout waiting for an USB drive I think
<j`ey>
hm that should boot grub
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<David[m]1234>
Yes that's what I though
<j`ey>
when you rebooted into 1TR, what did it say under the asahi icon?
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<Glanzmann>
David[m]1234 / j`ey: I think David[m]1234 has the old asahi installer, not the new one.
<mps>
j`ey: that means it is current asahi kernel repo?
<j`ey>
yep
<j`ey>
(as of 20mins ago)
<mps>
few minutes ago I added Glanzmann's patch cleanly
<mps>
(git pull again)
<Glanzmann>
j`ey: wow, thanks for the heads up. I kill it.
<Glanzmann>
j`ey: Done. Rebuilding.
<Glanzmann>
j`ey: Tell me you're secret how you get so fast notified. I tried to subscribe AsahiLinux but I only get emails on some prs. I probably need to setup a script which pulls the branches every minute and send me emails. :-)
<j`ey>
just pulled at the right time :P
<Glanzmann>
I see.
<sven>
that’s what he claimed last time when he found some new branch I pushed a few minutes earlier as well 🤨
<j`ey>
2 times is a coincidence, when you catch me a 3rd time I will spill my secrets
<marcan>
FYI: distro image is currently mildly broken, do not use. going to sleep, I'll fix it up tomorrow.
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<j`ey>
marcan: do not reply until tomorrow: bootstrap.sh just exits without any indication if the curl's failed
<Glanzmann>
j`ey: Good that you're awake. I just try to integrate Debian into the installer. :-)
<j`ey>
it's 8pm lol
<Glanzmann>
'-) 9pm for me.
<j`ey>
the fact the installer opens the terminal automatically is v cool, thanks VinDuv <3
<j`ey>
huh, I swear I picked the tethered/dev option.. but u-boot was isntalled..
<Glanzmann>
hmm.
<j`ey>
damnit.. why did marcan start menus from 1.. I was expecting 0 lol
<j`ey>
so I wrote '2', for the third item in the list lol
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<Glanzmann>
j`ey: So with the installer.
<Glanzmann>
I change it a little bit to install Debian.
<Glanzmann>
Than I started it from macos and everything looked good until it asked me to shutdown.
<Glanzmann>
So I shut it down, but did not hold and press due to the the new code.
<Glanzmann>
Than the mini blinked funny and give me an option after 1 minute or so to either pick recovery or choose startup volume.
<Glanzmann>
When I choose the startup volume option, it says that there is only a 'macos' volume.
<Glanzmann>
I assume something went wrong.
<j`ey>
sounds like it
<j`ey>
the new code runs from 1tr, so you still need to do the hold and press
<Glanzmann>
Okay, Than let me retry that.
<Glanzmann>
Yep, now it offered me Debian Linux.
<Glanzmann>
And it is doing the policy update.
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<j`ey>
re-did the installer making sure to write 3 isntead of 2, and it works perfectly
<clover[m]>
wait the installer is out? where can i find the instructions?
<sven>
there’s no official release yet, it’s the usual alpha version with new updates
<j`ey>
clover[m]: if you want to install the asahi archlinux, you need to wait a bit longer
<j`ey>
I just used the installer to install a new 12.1 stub partition+m1n
<j`ey>
1
<clover[m]>
are you doing an unofficial debian installer?
<Glanzmann>
clover[m]: So, if you want to install Debian right now, you can use: curl -sL tg.st/u/boostrap.sh | bash
<Glanzmann>
That uses the Asahi Installer from marcan, but modified so that it pulls the json from my site, not from marcans and also pulls the image to be installed from my site. https://pbot.rmdir.de/c__14-pix1jlGJGHTRuGVQ that is the patch that I used for testing.
<Glanzmann>
clover[m]: This is very fresh. I just did three test installations on the mini.
<clover[m]>
i have a M1 macbook pro
<Glanzmann>
This works IIUC only on the 2020 models, because the device trees of the newer models are missing.
<Glanzmann>
clover[m]: Which one?
<clover[m]>
13 inch, M1, 2020
<Glanzmann>
than it works.
<Glanzmann>
clover[m]: I also did the installation without an ethernet cable in.
<sven>
that is a MacBook Air then though, isn’t it?
<Glanzmann>
sven: No, there was also a pro from 2020.
<Glanzmann>
It is like the air but with the function key bar, more speakers and a fan.
<Glanzmann>
IIRC
<j`ey>
sven: btw 1 week until apple event, so start saving incase theres a new mini ;)
<sven>
oh, right, and with the touch bar
<Glanzmann>
Yep.
<clover[m]>
i will wait to tinker until the weekend. this is a work machine and im afraid to brick it D:
<sven>
I already know that i won’t need that thing but I still won’t be able to resist
<Glanzmann>
clover[m]: Do a backup if you need the data. I never managed to brick a machine, but I managed to make on unupgradable so I had to wipe it and reinstall. Others in here have often killed there macos isntallation on accident and had to reinstall, I have not understood how. Whatever you do, never delete the first, second and last partition.
<Glanzmann>
So what will the new mini have?
<Glanzmann>
m2?
<sven>
there’s probably going to be something with the m2 (or whatever they’ll call it)
<sven>
maybe Mac mini, maybe iMac Pro or maybe a real Mac Pro.
<Glanzmann>
I see.
<sven>
or maybe n times m2 for the Mac Pro. Who knows :)
<j`ey>
it seems the mini will be max/pro, and then a macbook pro will have m2
<j`ey>
(according to 'rumour' sites)
<sven>
and those are never wrong ofc!
<j`ey>
^_^
<sven>
but a MacBook Pro with the m2 would be good for my bank account. I think I can resist that one
<Glanzmann>
hrhr.
<Glanzmann>
I'm only mad that I bought the mini without the 10 Gbit/s port.
<Glanzmann>
But I initally only bought it to be an uart ...
<Glanzmann>
I have to hit bed, n8.
<kode54>
I'm not mad about not having 10 Gbit
<kode54>
I don't have $10k to upgrade my house to 10Gbit just to improve the speed accessing absolutely nothing
<kode54>
nothing in my LAN benefits from that speed
<psykose>
you can stream that 20Mbit video *so* much faster :p
<kettenis>
updated the device trees in u-boot to sync them with the linux repo