ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput | register your nick to speak
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<luyn>
Under the touch screen, can I get the area of the touch point or the diameter of the touch point circle through libinput?
<luyn>
Can anyone please help me, thanks
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<kennylevinsen>
luyn: reading the wl_touch documentation would be a good start, wl_touch::shape
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<luyn>
ok thanks
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<luyn>
kennylevinsen: can i ask how to tell if a touch device supports shape reporting
<emersion>
do you need to know before the touch event happens?
<luyn>
best yes
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<luyn>
emersion：Can I use some command like libinput to confirm if it is supported
<emersion>
`sudo libinput list-devices` will list all devices and their capabilities
<emersion>
but i don't think it says whether shape is supported or not
<emersion>
`sudo libinput debug-events` dumps raw events
<emersion>
if you see the shape when touching the screen, then it's supported
<luyn>
I know this but I'm not sure if he can find the corresponding function, I'll try it first Thanks
<emersion>
whot: why is kernel and wayland support implemented, but not libinput? missing patch, or something else?
<emersion>
luyn: you could try `sudo libinput record /dev/input/eventXXX`
<emersion>
then grep for the evdev constants i mentionned above
<whot>
emersion: "no demand". there was a patchset for it a few years ago but that was dropped
<whot>
emersion: well, sort of. we got to a v8 in the discussion and when I tried it it didn't even compile...
<emersion>
luyn: ^ sounds like there'd be an opportunity to send a libinput patch if you need this
<emersion>
ack!
<davidre>
luyn: evtest and see if you get those events maybe?
<emersion>
a bit of a shame we merged the wayland part of it then
<whot>
i'm not fundamentally opposed to it, the biggest problem is that major/minor are usually rubbish so they don't work without quirks for every single device
<emersion>
whot: i orientation any better?
<emersion>
is*
<whot>
so libinput is a bit in the weird place where we *want* to only export things that make sense to the caller but we can't do this generically here
<emersion>
by "every single device", do you mean every piece of hw needs calibration?
<whot>
touchpads use major/minor for palm/thumb detection in libinput but only if a quirk is avaialble
<whot>
not calibration in the traditional sense, more "specified ranges"
<emersion>
ah, no, every model then
<emersion>
so it's not _that_ bad
<whot>
yeah, generally once the quirks is in you're good for that device (except ppl who disagree on touch sizes etc)
<emersion>
just need to grow that quirk database :S
<whot>
the problem is - what are we converting it to?
<whot>
palm detection is a threshold so that's easy
<emersion>
the wayland protocol says… "surface coords"…
<whot>
right, so that conversion will be fun
<whot>
need to write all the tools etc to actually make this possible to measure first
<whot>
re: orientation - most orientation is just a 0 or 1 (vert or horiz), sometimes you get 2 bits of information
<whot>
can't remember what the apples do, they may be more fine-grained with 4-8 directions?
<emersion>
okay, so no quirk, but not very precise
<whot>
yeah, it's generally reliable enough
<whot>
but I kinda feel bad about giving you a "90 degree" angle when it's anywhere between 45 and 135
<whot>
plus the whole mirroring thing
<emersion>
mirroring?
<whot>
turns out human fingers are symmetrical, so upside down is downside up
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<emersion>
hm
<whot>
which means 0 deg angle is the same as 180 and I don't know which
<emersion>
can i create an issue about this so that it doesn't get forgotten?
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<whot>
none of these problems are unsolvable, it just needs someone with the hardware and motivation to actually dig down and figure it out. so far that hasn't happened and the shouting about it was limited, so I figured it may not be *that* important
<whot>
sure
<davidre>
I have atouchscreen before me and from running evtest, I very rarely see any MAJOR event, and never one for minor or orientation, interesting :~
<davidre>
correction I get major and minor but both have always the same value
<davidre>
But I don't even know what I have to do so it sends there
<whot>
davidre: change the size of the touch (press harder so your finger flattens)
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<whot>
davidre: and rotate a bit too, the major/minor is rotation-dependent iirc
<davidre>
whot: Doesn't seem to do be reliable so I can confirm hardware is not nice :D
<whot>
well, I guess we won't add a patch to libinput today then :)
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<pq>
macc24, weston uses libinput for input devices, and libinput requires properties through the udev library API, and setting up those properties is what udevd accomplishes. If you don't need any input devices, then you could hack the libudev usage out completely I think.
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<luyn>
emersion whot：I have the equipment and I am willing to study this problem, but my knowledge in this area is not enough, but I am willing to invest enough energy to study this problem
<luyn>
whot: I don't quite understand what quirks refer to, is it a feature of every touchscreen device
<luyn>
As more touch devices are used, I feel like this type of problem will increase
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<macc24>
pq: might try it out later
<pq>
macc24, oh right, you will also lose monitor hotplug support.
<pq>
I think?..
<emersion>
yeah, hotplug events come through udev
<kennylevinsen>
pq: there are drop-in replacements and alternatives. Those usually do not focus on udev properties, but while libinput uses them I don’t think it will fail without. Worst case there is the path backend to libinput.
<macc24>
pq: i don't use /any/ capabilities of weston beyond displaying
<pq>
kennylevinsen, I believe libinput uses udev properties to classify devices as keyboard/pointer/etc. and does nothing with devices not tagged as such.
<pq>
so at the very least any replacement needs to mock the libudev property API to deliver the right tags to libinput.
<emersion>
there's also a libinput non-udev backend…
<pq>
Doesn't the path backend only avoid udev-based device discovery but not the udev property API?
<whot>
luyn: they're extra bits of data that we don't get from the kernel or the kernel/device lies about
<whot>
emersion: yes, libinput always requires udev but only for a limited number of things (properties). the use-case of no udev is too niche to worry about tbh
<whot>
or was, anyway
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