ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
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<tokyovigilante>
hi, I'm just implementing an xdg_toplevel_listener, but am a bit confused by the configure event docs - "Clients must send an ack_configure in response to this event." AFAICT no xdg_toplevel_ack_configure method exists, and xdg_surface_ack_configure is expecting an xdg_surface pointer not an xdg_toplevel one. No client I can find does this either.
<ifreund>
it refers to xdg_surface.ack_configure
<tokyovigilante>
thanks, so should I just cast the xdg_toplevel pointer to an xdg_surface?
<vyivel>
you should use the same xdg_surface which has been used to create xdg_toplevel
<tokyovigilante>
oh right, makes sense thanks. Also, which serial? or is the intent that you accumulate the latest serial from xdg_surface.configure?
<vyivel>
yep
<vyivel>
the flow is: you get configuration data (xdg_toplevel.configure, maybe other events if you have some extensions), then xdg_surface.configure which marks the end of a configuration sequence and carries a serial
<vyivel>
then you change whatever needs to be changed, send xdg_surface.ack_configure with the received serial, and wl_surface.commit
<tokyovigilante>
ah right, thanks. so practically I don't actually need to respond to the toplevel configure events, just the surface one, which I'm guaranteed to get at the end?
<vyivel>
yes, in toplevel configure handler you just store the requested size but don't actually do anything yet
<tokyovigilante>
great, then just use that saved state when preparing a frame, send the ack_configure, and call wl_commit
<vyivel>
that's right
<tokyovigilante>
nice, I get it now. thanks!
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<hacksenwerk>
Hey. I red that wayland supports gui-level isolation only when the programs that should be isolated from each other are supporting that too. But it was an old post, is it still correct?
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<llyyr>
what do you mean specifically?
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<selckin>
what is gui-level isolation? do you mean like flatpak/appimage
<hacksenwerk>
On xorg every programm that runs in a xsession can read the keyboard input every other programm runnin gin the same xsession gets.
<llyyr>
the post you read was never correct, even at the time it was written
<llyyr>
wayland apps can't see other wayland apps
<hacksenwerk>
So for example firefox could keylog when you type in your passphrase for pass, or your root password on a xterm
<llyyr>
unless you specifically allow it to, i.e. screenshare or such
<hacksenwerk>
llyyr: that's good to hear :)
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<llyyr>
depending on how old such post was, and the authors thoughts and feelings on wayland, I guess they meant "every wayland app is actually xwayland so none of the security benefits apply"
<llyyr>
>All programs which do not support Wayland fall back to the legacy X11 protocol, which Wayland supports as a fallback, but which it cannot provide any window isolation for.
<hacksenwerk>
llyyr: so that fallback thing is still the case?
<llyyr>
yes, if you run x11 applications they can see other x11 applications
<llyyr>
even on a wayland session
<hacksenwerk>
It's not about 'seeing' it's about that keysniffing
<llyyr>
it's the same thing really, a x11 application can sniff keys from other x11 applications
<llyyr>
but almost everything supports wayland these days, so this isn't really a concern. Only thing I use xwayland for is Steam nowadays
<hacksenwerk>
You can test as follows: instal package xinput. Run xinput --list. Look for the keyboard id in the output that contains also AT [foobar] keyboard. Run xinput --test id_here. Open another xterm and login as root. The xinput should show the keys you are pressing, also __after__ you log in as root
<hacksenwerk>
And of course also in passes TUI password prompt
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<hacksenwerk>
12:59 < llyyr> it's the same thing really, a x11 application can sniff keys from other x11 applications
<hacksenwerk>
yes but can wayland apps too?
<llyyr>
no
<hacksenwerk>
llyyr: :) good
<hacksenwerk>
llyyr: How to find out if an application uses wayland?
<llyyr>
you can run xeyes and if it doesn't react to your cursor in a window, it's using wayland. But it depends on your compositor
<llyyr>
on sway for example I can see with swaymsg -t get_tree
<hacksenwerk>
hmm.. so there's no programm that can give you a list or something?
<llyyr>
I don't think such a thing has been made yet, but it is possible with ext-foreign-toplevel-list
<mclasen>
you can make a wayland program that does it without breaking the promise that clients can't see each other
<hacksenwerk>
Ok.
<hacksenwerk>
I never used wayland before, but that xorg issue is a dealbreaker for me and I want to switch.
<hacksenwerk>
Were there any security audits done for wayland already?
<llyyr>
wayland is just a protocol, the security audits would need to be done on specific compositor implementations to have any value
<hacksenwerk>
llyyr: Ok.
<hacksenwerk>
Just one last question, I aksed for some other user: The user needs vnc and want to know if there's a way to remote desktop yet.
<llyyr>
there's a few solutions, depending on your choice of compositor
<mclasen>
remoting isn't so much a display protocol question, more of a system question. There are wayland-based desktops that support remoting
<mclasen>
for example, gnome supports rdp nowadays
<llyyr>
wayvnc for most wlroots compositors.
<hacksenwerk>
llyyr: mclasen: ok thank you I will tell that the user. I don't use vnc.
<hacksenwerk>
I only use ssh
<hacksenwerk>
btw: does wayland somehow depends on systemd or other poetterware?
<hacksenwerk>
Because I use only systemd-free distros, or at list distros that allow me to choose what initsystem I use, without having to hustle arround.
<llyyr>
no
<hacksenwerk>
llyyr: awesome! :)
<hacksenwerk>
llyyr: mclasen: Well thank you very much for your helping answers. My next task is now learning a bit wayland. ;)
* mclasen
reminds me that I haven't talked to Lennart in a while
<hacksenwerk>
gtg bye :)
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<kchibisov>
If you use wayland-scanner on LGPL licensed wayland protocol xml, what the end license of generated C code is?
<ifreund>
kchibisov: my take is that copyright for protocol xml is probably meaningless given that it is essentially an API, and APIs have been found in court to not be copyrightable
<ifreund>
am not a lawyer and all that though
<vyivel>
i'm curious where did you find a lgpl-licensed xml
<kennylevinsen>
kchibisov: The XML file to be LGPL-licensed documentation, and would not consider wayland-scanner's output to be dependent on the input it read.
<kennylevinsen>
but it's an interesting question
<kennylevinsen>
If a HTML file is GPL, does that make the pixels on your screen GPL-protected when your browser renders them? What if a shader modifies them?
<kchibisov>
the file says in license 'program' but documentation is not 'program'
<vyivel>
>“The Program” refers to any copyrightable work licensed under this License.
<kchibisov>
indeed.
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<vyivel>
anyway kde won't sue you so you're fine :^)
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<kchibisov>
fedora just complains about MIT license.
<kchibisov>
because wayland-rs has an xml that is LGPL, thus entire thing should be LGPL.
<kchibisov>
where I think it's not the case, because it's not present in the end binary.