marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | https://asahilinux.org/2022/03/asahi-linux-alpha-release/ | General project discussion | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-alt #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<marcan> If you use one of the test m1n1 builds in that github issue about displays, "hotswap" will work in the sense that the output will keep the same format/mode without failing
<marcan> but software won't notice / switch resolutions or anything like that
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<pjakobsson> usb doesn't work with latest code from asahi branch (72eed5179ad57adf126bd2dcab116e48a96615e5). Is that a known issue?
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<_jannau_> pjakobsson: which device
<pjakobsson> _jannau_, t600x (MacBook Pro 14")
<pjakobsson> xhci-hcd xhci-hcd.0.auto: Host took too long to start, waited 32000 microseconds.
<pjakobsson> xhci-hcd xhci-hcd.0.auto: startup error -19
<j`ey> pjakobsson: repeatable?
<pjakobsson> yes, on every boot
<_jannau_> pjakobsson: works for me on a mbp 14" m1 max (with additional patches which should be unrelated, booted via HV with everything essential built-in
<pjakobsson> I'll try an older commit to see if I can find a point where it still works and then bisect
<_jannau_> does the kernel in the "asahi-dev" (instead "asahi) pacman repo work for you? That is mostly identical to the current tip of the asahi branch
<pjakobsson> let me check
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<pjakobsson> _jannau_, USB on 5.18.0-asahi-2-1-ARCH works
<pjakobsson> which config should I be using?
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<_jannau_> I don't see how either one could break usb. the first one should not change anything on m1 pro/max and error would heve been an SError on boot. The SMC change is genuine fix (which matters only with the macos 13 beta firmware)
<pjakobsson> right, I don't find them related either
<_jannau_> pjakobsson: the config from the package is a good starting point, if you want to use the kernel for tethered booting chainload.py/linux.py/run_guest.py you want more of the drivers built-in instead of modules
<gsora[m]> can we """safely""" pin the kernel from asahi-dev, or it's better to leave that repo alone/update the whole system?
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<_jannau_> no, some kernel updates will require an updated m1n1 and I would not trust us to handle that via dependencies/versions
<gsora[m]> so it's either a full commit to asahi-dev while still expecting breakage, or stay where I am right now
<_jannau_> the expactation for breakage in asahi-dev is not much larger compared to asahi. Updates are not automated and I expect them to be tested at least on a device
<gsora[m]> i see
<gsora[m]> thank you for weighing in
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<nsklaus> so what progress has been made lately on asahi? it's been 3 months without report now. what improved since pre-release in march ?
<nsklaus> i mean, generaly speaking
<nsklaus> was there any notable points ?
<j`ey> GPU kernel side progress
<nsklaus> even if still wip..
<nsklaus> j`ey: that's nice to hear
<see-air-rah[m]> Is it possible to get plasma 5.25 any time soon or are there too many features that wouldn’t work like trackpad swipes or touch etc.?
<nsklaus> what are the expectations like for a first usable prototype ? accelrated 2d maybe ?
<j`ey> 2d/3d doesn't make a difference
<nsklaus> was that joke on twitter about caesar and cleopatra a real thing? i mean the "in 3 months time .."
<j`ey> yes
<sven> modern gpus don't really do 2d acceleration afaik. it's all 3d these days
<j`ey> I mean it was a joke, not a real deadline
<nsklaus> j`ey: good to hear, so maybe around what, september ?
<j`ey> nsklaus: ^
<nsklaus> ah, i thought it was at the same time a joke and a real timeline for showcasing something nice
<sven> the timeline is "when it's done" as usual
<j`ey> nsklaus: no, it was just made by someone as a joke (and it was funny!)
<nsklaus> ok, what about caesar then what he done lately beside eating grapes ? :)
<nsklaus> anything notable ?
<j`ey> taking a break, letting Lina work on the GPU in the mean time
<nsklaus> progress on the installer, cpu deep idle, speaker sound support ?
<nsklaus> taking a break can be a necessity sometimes
<nsklaus> i see well, maybe in a few months then.. it's just that since there was no more streaming, no blog, and very little tweets on asahi itself, i was wondering, and so i came to ask
<nsklaus> fishing for infos..
<nsklaus> hungry for them
<j`ey> I know, you ask it a lot lol
<nsklaus> my questions are often spaced by days, or weeks, sometimes months too
<_jannau_> see-air-rah[m]: plasma 5.25 should be just a `pacman -Syu` away. The archlinuxarm aarch64 packages have been updated
<j`ey> audio upstreaming seems to be going well, probably another round or two of reviews for the latest series
<nsklaus> j`ey: what the new serie will bring compared to asahi pre-release state ?
<j`ey> nsklaus: it will be in mainline
<nsklaus> j`ey: speaker sound support ?
<nsklaus> or just better handling of what was already there but in less good shape ?
<see-air-rah[m]> _jannau_: Very good! I saw the x86_64 having been done a few days back. Looking forward to trying it and seeing what works.
<j`ey> it's upstreaming the current support into mainline nsklaus
<j`ey> aka getting it into torvald's repo
<nsklaus> what's the current support like ?
<nsklaus> in terms of hearing sound :)
<nsklaus> for the base m1 macbookpro
<j`ey> nothing has changed, afaik, since you asked last time
<nsklaus> that was one or two week ago i think
<nsklaus> well .. good things can take time to get there..
<nsklaus> maybe later then
<nsklaus> btw, wasn't there some little quirks to the wifi driver too ?
<nsklaus> what about 4k kernels and FEX playing nice on asahi ? anyone tried it yet ?
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<nsklaus> has a decision been made yet about staying 16k or aiming for 4k but still working on making it happen ?
<j`ey> making 4K kernels work is a goal too
<sven> 16k for now, i'm waiting for a series from robin murphy improving the iommu api to go in first before picking up that 4k patch again
<nsklaus> good to hear, so there will be less compatibility problems probably
<nsklaus> less patching needed on 3rd party softwares
<sven> well.. we want all the 3rd party software to fix their code
<sven> that's the reason why the default kernel only works on 16k for now
<nsklaus> sven: that's a lot of software in repos hoping they will all fix it to run on 16k kernels could take a long time though
<sven> 🤷‍♂️
<j`ey> most software is fine
<nsklaus> maybe most software would run fine on 16k already
<nsklaus> that was i was thinking, ok
<j`ey> yes, you can look at how short the non-working software is
<nsklaus> *that was what i was ...
<nsklaus> there's a list of them ?
<nsklaus> i didn't know thanks for the link
<nsklaus> hmm very short indeed
<nsklaus> that's good news i didn't know
<nsklaus> i had assumed there would be much more
<psykose> it's only as long as software has been tested
<nsklaus> psykose: ah there's that too maybe :)
<nsklaus> bad news for fex support it seems
<Lucy[m]> Well, you can't really expect a project like FEX to support non-4k page sizes
<nsklaus> so all hopes for 4k kernels in the future
<nsklaus> i mean, personally my main use case for fex would be ability to run wine
<nsklaus> daunting tasks all those .. one step at a time i guess ..
<nsklaus> i was wondering about the current state of video output, there was talk about the computer running a bit hotter than normal because all rendering was done on cpu,
<Lucy[m]> That should be expected
<nsklaus> could it be an idea to add some delays to not make it run 100% as fast as possible ?
<nsklaus> like in a video game, the rendering loop, people always add timing to reduce the resource eating, and make the rendering time based and not "as fast as possible on this hardware"
<Lucy[m]> If it's implemented properly, it would only use as much cpu power as necessary. Don't know how it actually is implemented though
<nsklaus> i see ..
<nsklaus> well that was the idea ..
<nsklaus> not sure if it's possible or not
<nsklaus> i thought that might be the cause of heat increase, eventually
<psykose> it's not an 'increase' compared to just running the cpu at that level doing anything else
<psykose> i don't remember if you can manually just lower the clock
<nsklaus> i thought one of the main reason in heat increase was the cpu busy with the added burden of all the rendering task, normally offloaded on the gpu. but i guess it's also possible current asahi made the cpu to always run in performance mode too
<Lucy[m]> Sure, excessive heat or cpu usage would be present if you're doing something like watching a video
<Lucy[m]> That should be expected though, until there's GPU acceleration
<nsklaus> from what i've heard here before, macbook runs hotter on asahi compared to running jail-bsd (macos)
<j`ey> no, asahi has proper cpu frequency control
<nsklaus> j`ey: so if asahi has proper cpy frequency control then it is really because of cpu software rendering, then maybe that timing delay i was thinking about could make sense ?
<psykose> it 'runs hotter' because it uses more cpu because the gpu does not do it instead
<psykose> the cpu 'has to' do the work, so it generates the heat
<Lucy[m]> RIght, thought that was obvious
<psykose> if you added 'delays', either they a) don't do anything, because the same work is done anyway or b) your video lags because the cpu can't do the aforementioned work, and so you get less heat
<nsklaus> but software rendering for plain windows render shouldn't really increase heat, it's not an intensive calculation
<psykose> what?
<Lucy[m]> Is there a significant CPU usage just rendering things? I don't think so. Watching videos wouldn't be ideal though
<nsklaus> if i was trying to run a 3d game in software rendering , then it would be normal that this task was intensive calculation for the cpu, but rendering a desktop with just the windows to move around should make the cpu run that much hotter for such a task, i think. with my limited skills and understanding of current situation.
<j`ey> it's possible it's just something else entirely too
<nsklaus> *should -> shouldn't : just the windows to move around should make the cpu run that much hotter (typo)
<nsklaus> *shouldn't damn my typing ;)
<ChaosPrincess> you are still redrawing and compositing the whole thing every frame
<nsklaus> there might be something going on on that front, making the cpu to run hotter
<Lucy[m]> I'm pretty sure it's just due to lack of GPU acceleration, lol. Rendering a full desktop is more intensive than you'd expect
<nsklaus> ChaosPrincess: yes but it's no 3d software rending of complex scene either. running on FB shouldn't make the cpu noticeably hotter, shouldn't it ?
<psykose> if the cpu does more things it gets more hotter
<ChaosPrincess> complex scene will just result in 5 fps instead of 60 :P
<nsklaus> it's more intensive that what i think it is you say ? hmm ok then.. maybe we'll see confirmation when rendering gets done on gpu then
<Lucy[m]> The same calculations are used whether it appears as 3D or not to my knowledge, dunno how llvmpipe works though
<mps> nsklaus: cpu policy works fine. I use conservative governor and temp is usually low, except when building big software
<nsklaus> when rendering will switch to gpu, it will be easy enough to see if cpu still runs hotter than normaly on jail-bsd for example
<psykose> you can do less things and be less hotter by offloading them to gpu, or by making things more efficient, whatever, but there is no 'just add some sleeps to lower usage', as it's already sleeping when not doing things
<psykose> and you can of course (if supported) just force the cpu to be slow or disable cores or whatever to 'force' it to be cold at the expense of it always being slow, but you're thinking of it from the wrong benchmark
<nsklaus> just to be clear, i haven't installed asahi yet, i'm waiting for speaker sound support, i'm basing this thinking on what i've read here, people reporting the laptop ran hotter on asahi, and the one reason given was cpu rendering.. so i thought about adding timing delays to the render loop, that's the whole story. but i didn't confirm any heat issue first hand.
<psykose> yeah, if you force rendering at 1fps it takes less cpu load and so it would be colder
<nsklaus> no need to go to extreme.. ju;st take a look at video games development making rendering loop to cap at 30fps whatever the capabilities the hardware have
<Lucy[m]> lol..
<psykose> yes, that's already what's happening, unless you think it's trying to render at max fps irrespective of display fps
<Lucy[m]> You're still going on about that. It's doing as much work as it needs to for 60Hz or whatever else your refresh rate is
<nsklaus> i'm sunday coder i admit, no doubt about that, i'm nowhere near the level of you folks doing the real work around here
<psykose> if linux userspace didn't implement this 'fps lock' everyones desktop would always be at 100% of something at 173252fps
<nsklaus> it's just some idea from a very limited dev, skill wise i'm not worth much
<Lucy[m]> I know what you're saying, but it really would make no sense
<nsklaus> the point was: something has got to cause this extra heat, and i was just making a wild guess. but, confirmation will be made on rendering gets shifted to gpu, later on
<nsklaus> i wasn't convinced rendering a desktop would really be the cause of extra heat, unless something strange was happening on how cpu render was implemented, but as someone pointed it out to me earlier, maybe this is more intensive than what i thought it was.. we'll see later on i guess
<nsklaus> *typo: confirmation will be made onCe rendering
<nsklaus> ..
<nsklaus> heat is important for laptop owner, it can drain battery too, and personally i dislike hot laptop, that start running fans for no reasons. and heat is also indicative that something is not working correctly
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<_jannau_> the m2 mbp launch is strange. only "available" BTO is 24GB ram / 1 TB ssd, to be delivered July 27 at the earliest
<_jannau_> no non german keyboards the german store, even the supposedly BTO model becomes unavailable
<j`ey> whats BTO?
<_jannau_> I guess apple sits on a large pile of prebuilt machines and BTO (built to order) is affected by Shanghai covid lockdowns
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<maz> so much for me waiting for older M1s to drop in price! ;-)
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<derzahl> anyone been seeing lots of gnome-shell crashes on wayland but not xorg?
<derzahl> it could def be something particular about my setup
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<IcaroDextris[m]> <derzahl> "anyone been seeing lots of gnome..." <- none in my 2 pc with gnome, neither wayland or xorg
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<see-air-rah[m]> <see-air-rah[m]> "Is it possible to get plasma 5.2..." <- It’s available now:)
<derzahl> IcaroDextris[m]: ok thanks! ive recompiled multiple ALARM packages with clang+optimizations so its probably something there
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<gsora[m]> daaaaamn
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<zx2c4> Hmm how can i change my screen resolution?
<zx2c4> X only lists one mode and adding others doesnt seem to work
<mps> zx2c4: driver is simpledrm and it doesn't support change resolution
<zx2c4> mps: oh damn. can i feed it something at boot time?
<mps> zx2c4: not with simpledrm. I don't know what is current status of the DCP driver which should support different resolutions
<zx2c4> looks like it gets it from devicetree or something
<zx2c4> yea i guess dcp it is
<j`ey> or use scaling, but that has drawbacks with fractional scaling
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<IcaroDextris[m]> <j`ey> "or use scaling, but that has..." <- I’m using it at 175, no noticeable drawbacks except for xWayland app but is an acceptable trade-off
<mps> hm, I use dpi 192
<j`ey> I had some font issues at some value, maybe 1.5x, cant remember
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<milek7_> m1n1 parses display= param in concatenated payload
<zx2c4> milek7_: oh, how do i set that?
<mps> milek7_: first or second stage m1n1
<zx2c4> } else if (IS_VAR("display=")) {
<zx2c4> display_configure(val);
<zx2c4> src/payload.c
<milek7_> there was something about it in monitor troubleshooting issue
<j`ey> interesting, dunno if anyone tried it on a laptop yet
<zx2c4> that seems easy enough. let see
<zx2c4> [ 1.613] (II) modeset(0): Output None-1 using initial mode 640x1136 +0+0
<zx2c4> yet i gave it display=1280x800
<zx2c4> that's ... intersting
<j`ey> whats it actually displaying at?
<zx2c4> gotta go into the other room :)
<zx2c4> oh, tried again with the projector actually on. it went back to 1920x1080. damn
<zx2c4> maybe rebooting doesn't actually rerun m1n1 and i have to totally powerdown?
<zx2c4> hm, nope
<j`ey> rebooting will run m1n1
<zx2c4> well, afaict, display= doesnt change anything
<zx2c4> oh maybe my m1n1 is ancient
<zx2c4> stringsing it doesnt show display=
<zx2c4> yea that must be it
<zx2c4> alright, time to build m1n1
<zx2c4> do i need to append a device tree or something to this newly built m1n1.bin
<zx2c4> i guess ill look at what the PKGBUILD for the kernel does
<zx2c4> so i copy m1n1.bin from my build into /usr/lib/ashai-boot/
<zx2c4> and then run update-m1n1
<zx2c4> and then append the display= line
<zx2c4> alright, rebooting. fingers crossed
<zx2c4> milek7_: holy shit it worked. thanks for the github tip