<Manouchehri>
while I'm happy Asahi is working so well... I am kinda bummed that it works better than my SolidRun LX2160 Honeycomb.
<Manouchehri>
ordered it three years ago, it was supposed to be the first popular arm dev machine
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<Lucy[m]>
It's not better in every regard, but understandable. Would be pretty bummed out too I think
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<Manouchehri>
Lucy[m]: almost every regard.
<Lucy[m]>
Yeah, fair
<Manouchehri>
if you go for the Mac Studio, then I don't see any benefits of the Honeycomb.
<psydroid[m]>
What are the problem with the Honeycomb other than the older and slower cores?
<psydroid[m]>
I thought they'd be up to using Neoverse cores by now
<Lucy[m]>
Well, considering the prices are similar.. I would say the honeycomb is a poor value except for the fact that it can use dGPUs without issue, and has UEFI built in
<Lucy[m]>
Distros "just work", very different from m1
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<psydroid[m]>
I think they depend on NXP developing a new SoC, but I can't find anything about them working on something new with e.g. Neoverse N2
<Manouchehri>
psydroid[m]: it's still a hassle to get stuff booted. ESXi doesn't support SFP+ or ethernet on the Honeycomb, so you can't install it unless you use USB.
<Manouchehri>
I tried to upgrade the bootloader and had a lovely kernel panic, so had to downgrade for now.
<Manouchehri>
psydroid[m]: I'm sure marc@n will get Thunderbolt working this year, so you can just get a Razer Core X.
<chadmed>
daily reminder that external gpus will never ever work
<Manouchehri>
chadmed: why not? I use one for my XPS 13 dev machine, works "fine" in Linux.
<Lucy[m]>
Limitations with PCIe, I believe? The "Normal" mappings don't work which GPUs expect for unaligned memory access
<Lucy[m]>
Common for many ARM boards..
<Manouchehri>
the dumpster fire of amdgpu might work
<Lucy[m]>
With ugly driver hacks..
<Manouchehri>
> implying most GPUs aren't ugly driver hacks to begin with
<Manouchehri>
the only GPU driver I don't hate, is most of Intel's drivers.
<Lucy[m]>
Well, good luck upstreaming it is all I'm saying
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<chadmed>
its because these socs do not support mapping device memory in a way that is useful for/compatible with gpus
<chadmed>
so you would need revolting driver level hacks to get around this (disable stuff like write caching/grouping) which would annihilate performance and make them next to useless anyway
<chadmed>
plus as has already been said you would never ever ever get these patches upstreamed in a billion years
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<j`ey>
weird because I don't see any irq being 83 in the dts
<j`ey>
(unless that's just linux's irq nr, and not the hwirq..)
<j`ey>
'unsigned int irq = irq_desc_get_irq(desc);', I guess that's the linux internal number then
<jannau>
usb-c ports on the macbook pro log "xhci-hcd xhci-hcd.0.auto: irq 84, io mem 0x382280000
<jannau>
and irq 85, so maybe magsafe
<jannau>
no, but it is probably magsafe
<jannau>
irq 83 is for me gpio irq for the tps698x
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<jannau>
hpm5 has the wrong irq number in t8112-j413.dtb, it is 174 copied from j31[46] but should be 8
<maz>
there is a driver that has requested this interrupt, but it is not handling it. the kernel kills it after something like 100000 tries.
<jannau>
marcan: ^^^
<j`ey>
nice fine jannau
<j`ey>
*find
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<j`ey>
jannau: you should reply on twitter too, so they don't waste time trying to find it
<jannau>
done
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<janrinze>
it's been asked here probably several times.. the USB A ports on the mac studio, do we know how to enable/use them?
<janrinze>
On the mac mini the USB A ports are USB 3 and i was hoping we could have the same with the mac studio.
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<jannau>
the usb controller needs firmware and the firmware needs to loaded in a apple specific way
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<janrinze>
dmesg mentiones Host supports USB 3.1 Enhanced SuperSpeed
<janrinze>
probably just showing us that a certain flag is set.. right?
<janrinze>
usb 11-1: new high-speed USB device number 2 using xhci-hcd
<janrinze>
so it only will use high speed.
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<janrinze>
jannau: is that different from the mac mini?
<jannau>
yes
<janrinze>
we already use apple firmware for several components, right?
<janrinze>
the USB firmware is different then?
<sven>
because someone wrote code to use that firmware
<sven>
and no one wrote code for the usb firmware yet
<janrinze>
aha. and not yet for the USB. i see.
<j`ey>
janrinze: for those, I think the usb firmware is also embedded in the .kext
<j`ey>
so that's another thing that needs to be written
<janrinze>
hmm.. interesting choice of Apple.
<sven>
usually that firmware is inside some ROM or flash and not necessarily signed. this way apple controls the entire firmware and can be sure they know what’s running on the controller
<janrinze>
ah.. and on boot the firmware won't get loaded because the osx kernel doesn't get run..
<sven>
and maybe it also saves a few cents of hw costs because they dont need that flash
<janrinze>
the USB is Apple proprietary, right?
<sven>
no
<j`ey>
sven: and those few cents of savings are passed onto the consumers.. /s :P
<sven>
j`ey: sure, I’ve been told that’s how the economy works :p
<janrinze>
using the hypervisor, could we intercept the firmware write?
<sven>
sure
<janrinze>
we could capture a signature like the first X bytes and locate it in the .kext using that?
<j`ey>
but I think the installer will have to extract it, because we cant redistribute it
<dottedmag>
janrinze: The process of reverse-engineering is well-understood. The only missing piece is someone actually doing the work.
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<janrinze>
dottedmag: i don't have a hypervisor setup but i think that getting the signature and finding the firmware in the .kext could be a way for the installer to extract the firmware from the .kext
<janrinze>
if the firmware is compressed in the .kext that might be a bit more difficult of course.
<ChaosPrincess>
iirc you dont even have to do that, there is a symbol in the kext for the firmware
<janrinze>
ChaosPrincess: sounds good to me..
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<nsklaus>
what's with all the .kext talk recently ? aren't these "kernel extension" a macos thing ? what does it have to do with asahi ?
<j`ey>
nsklaus: the firmware for some of the usb ports is stored in the .kext
<j`ey>
so it needs to be extracted, to use with linux
<nsklaus>
j`ey: this is a one time thing right ? done at install time, and then asahi would save them somewhere safe ?
<j`ey>
yeh
<nsklaus>
i see, thanks for telling
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<janrinze>
not many will use asahi linux on a mac studio.. right? I guess most have a mac book pro/air or a mac mini.
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<j`ey>
janrinze: there's a few of you
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<janrinze>
i understand.
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<j`ey>
janrinze: m a z, (kernel maintianer for arm64/kvm) is using it as one of his workstations
<janrinze>
at work we have arm64 in production systems, I like the binary compatibility. The drivers that i installed on those systems for hardware we have apparently work 1on1 on the mac mini. which is definitely a plus when developing. So i can build/run/test on asahi linux as if it was on the production systems.. (but waay faster ;-) )
<janrinze>
I know that asahi linux isn't production ready so i won't be advising to migrate our production systems to mac studio's yet ;-)
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<janrinze>
we require multiple 1Gbit network adapters on those. The mini could do that over USB3. When the mac studio supports USB3 it might actually become a viable option.
<j`ey>
what arm64 hw are you using currently?
<janrinze>
these 1Gb need to be point-to-point unfortunately
<janrinze>
they're NVidia systems. embedded and fanless.
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<janrinze>
and installing an OS on them is way more painful than asahi ;-)
<janrinze>
on the topic of the 4k page patches, there was a mention of a performance penalty. which parts are hurt most by that?
<janrinze>
j`ey: your work at ARM, right?
<j`ey>
I do
<janrinze>
know Wilco D?
<j`ey>
janrinze: I've spoken to him.. once
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<janrinze>
if you see him say hi from me. haven't spoken to him in decennia.
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<j`ey>
will do!
<janrinze>
he's busy on the compilers for ARM, i.i.r.c.
<janrinze>
great guy, friendly and very smart.
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<janrinze>
jannau: your u-boot fix is exactly what i was trying to do with u-boot. thanks!!
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<kov>
janrinze, I don't know the answer to which parts are hurt the most, but IIRC there was a 15% perf hit on kernel compilation
<Axenntio>
Is there a way to use all the screen on Notched MacBook in Asahi?
<j`ey>
I think only by modifying m1n1 currently
<j`ey>
src/kboot.c get_notchless_fb
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<Axenntio>
Ok, thanks for the information. I know that Marcan speaks about the git software the ability to redeems the notch space, but if the software is not updated to support this feature, it will be nice to have a manual way to do this (later probably)
<j`ey>
Axenntio: wont it just be annoying if you keep having to manually resizing stuff, *shrug*
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<Axenntio>
Yes, of course, but what if I can let i3/sway have full usage of the screen and that I already configure my status bar to take the exact height of the notch?
<j`ey>
fair
<janrinze>
kov: that's interesting. memory allocation might have something to do with that. malloc performance on 16k pages might work more efficient. which makes me wonder what would happen when using 64k pages. Since these setings are all 'legacy' from times when memory was measured in MB's rather than GB's..
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<janrinze>
the benefit to goto 64k pages is there but only if you're not going to do swapping.
<janrinze>
it's not a big jump in performance from 16k to 64k pages. This is sort of similar to cache sizes. above a certain point doubling cache size will only gain a little performance.
<janrinze>
j`ey: on which M1 was this done? M1,M1 pro, M1 max and M1 ultra might all behave quite different in this respect..
<j`ey>
janrinze: not m1 at all
<j`ey>
m1 doesn't support 64k
<janrinze>
then on which system was this test performed?
<j`ey>
arnd_: what did you do these tests on?
<janrinze>
if this was on Intel or AMD the effects may differ quite a bit i.r.t. M1.
<janrinze>
never tried that.. but then again that's 32bit only.. will try that on a rainy day when there's nothing else todo ;-)
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<j`ey>
janrinze: I think that's 64K large pages for arm7
<j`ey>
whereas arm64 can have 4 16 64 as the 'small' page size
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<marcan>
m1n1 will never have notch support for the boot FB because it doesn't make any sense, that will come with DCP
<marcan>
fixed the irq thing, building a new kernel
<j`ey>
marcan: very nice that it worked otherwise!
<marcan>
meanwhile my MBA apparently arrives... tomorrow, ahead of schedule
<marcan>
while I'm still overseas :p
<marcan>
j`ey: :)
<Glanzmann>
marcan: In which town does your family live in spain?
<marcan>
that's proprietary information :p
<Glanzmann>
I see, than I'll wait until Debian artefacts finish building.
<Glanzmann>
I though about going sailing in Mar Menor in spain.
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<Manouchehri>
axyliah[m]: dang, I just realized how lovely i3wm would be with a notch.
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<arnd_>
j`ey: this was an Amazon EC2 Graviton2/C6g
<Glanzmann>
Debain users: I updated the artefacts including the kernel in case someone is on the m2, but I don't know of anyone. But I'll try it myself on Saturday on macbook air mm2 of a friend.
<arnd_>
janrinze: Marvell did a hack to use 64KB page sizes on arm32 on CPUs that did not actually support the larger TLB. Not sure if this was on the Kirkwood (ARMv5E) or Armada XP (ARMv7-a) generation. It very wasteful though, and you don't normally want to do it on a machine that is already memory limited
<ar>
i don't remember it on kirkwood
<ar>
i used to have a board based on it
<arnd_>
In this case itwas done to avoid the limitations of a 32-bit pgoff_t that ultimately limits the the maximum disk partition size to 16GB
<arnd_>
the patches never went upstream but were in vendor kernels that shipped with NAS boxes
<arnd_>
Annapurna Labs (now Amazon) worked around the issue in their NAS SoCs by using a 64-bit pgoff_t, which is a better way to handle this IMO, but this also never went upstream
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<opticron>
hooray, I was going to update all my stuff and check out BT today anyway
<opticron>
thanks, Glanzmann!
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<Glanzmann>
opticron: You're welcome. I have not tried bluetooth myself but you need the firmware in order to run it. Here is a howto how to to extract it: https://g3la.de/hedgedoc/s/MIaCyVv1A#Bluetooth
<viliamcarnoky[m]>
Do you know any emulators that would allow me to run x86 programs?
<Glanzmann>
viliamcarnoky[m]: Apparantly qemu.
<j`ey>
qemu, fexemu, box64
<viliamcarnoky[m]>
Ill try it, Thanks
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<opticron>
I was having issues with BT trying to get audio working, but forgot I hadn't installed pipewire or all the other bits necessary, pairing and a2dp output and headset mode all worked fine after that